Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You'd probably get nowhere with that - but I would certainly be making sure Delay Repay was claimed.
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FGW at Paddington still getting evening Off Peak validity spectacularly wrong.
- Thread starter bnm
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You'd probably get nowhere with that - but I would certainly be making sure Delay Repay was claimed.
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RailUK Forums
There certainly seems to be a major problem at the Paddington gate line, and my own, now pretty old experiences of working within FGW/GWR lead me to think that it be institutionalised there.
Some of the staff I used to work with did indeed think that they knew it all, would not be told anything to the contrary and simply ignored any evidence that was produced in an effort to show them what was actually correct.
I'm pretty saddened to see that the same sort of things might be happening today, 15 years on.
Some of the staff I used to work with did indeed think that they knew it all, would not be told anything to the contrary and simply ignored any evidence that was produced in an effort to show them what was actually correct.
I'm pretty saddened to see that the same sort of things might be happening today, 15 years on.
It's quite possibly the same people!
This is a bit OT, but my experience has been that the kind of person who can't be told they are wrong is often also the same kind of person who knows every minute detail of HR policy and is able to manage to keep their job despite the best efforts of management to be rid of them.You may well be right!
Well, there was mention in anonymous emails to me last year that my description and possibly photos had been citculated around FGW/GWR messrooms. Subtext was to give me a hard time rather than accept I have valid tickets.
I've said before though that I have no truck with conspiracies when the far more likely explanations are cock ups and incompetence.
Yesterday's gateline staffer didn't know who I was until I mentioned the ongoing complaint. That was some five minutes after I'd been told my ticket wasnt valid.
In future my opening gambit should perhaps be, " Do you know who I am?"
Well, there was mention in anonymous emails to me last year that my description and possibly photos had been citculated around FGW/GWR messrooms. Subtext was to give me a hard time rather than accept I have valid tickets.
I've said before though that I have no truck with conspiracies when the far more likely explanations are cock ups and incompetence.
Yesterday's gateline staffer didn't know who I was until I mentioned the ongoing complaint. That was some five minutes after I'd been told my ticket wasnt valid.
In future my opening gambit should perhaps be, " Do you know who I am?"
If you can, swap tickets with someone just for going through the gates. Let him go first. (Yes, lecture about tickets not being transferable is not necessary!)
I've received an email response today from the CS Manager whose got the unenviable job of dealing with this.
More disappointment from him that it's still happening despite a rebrief supposedly carried out in December after the previous occurrence.
I have to take the platitudes at face value. Having met this manager I do believe his sincerity. Sadly all his words are for naught if the frontline staff continue to be so incompetent.
This weekend I'll be opening correspondence with a few specialist transport journalists, to see if they are interested in my story. I'm not going to the 'papers' as I doubt they'll understand the issues and even if they run a story I'm cynical as to how they'll angle it and how I'll be portrayed.
So it's Barry Doe, and transport correspondents for BBC and ITV to whom I'll be emailing.
to my MP too, to see if she can be a pathway to the DfT to explore the breaches of the Ticket and Settling Agreement which in turn could be seen as franchise breaches. I don't however expect much from this avenue. The media spotlight is probably going to be more fruitful.
Prick up your ears GWR...
More disappointment from him that it's still happening despite a rebrief supposedly carried out in December after the previous occurrence.
I have to take the platitudes at face value. Having met this manager I do believe his sincerity. Sadly all his words are for naught if the frontline staff continue to be so incompetent.
This weekend I'll be opening correspondence with a few specialist transport journalists, to see if they are interested in my story. I'm not going to the 'papers' as I doubt they'll understand the issues and even if they run a story I'm cynical as to how they'll angle it and how I'll be portrayed.
So it's Barry Doe, and transport correspondents for BBC and ITV to whom I'll be emailing.
to my MP too, to see if she can be a pathway to the DfT to explore the breaches of the Ticket and Settling Agreement which in turn could be seen as franchise breaches. I don't however expect much from this avenue. The media spotlight is probably going to be more fruitful.
Prick up your ears GWR...
You can contact them directly (details on their website). That should really be the most fruitful method of resolution as there's no wriggle-room(*) - the company has a franchise obligation to honour the ticket and you present evidence that it is still not doing so, despite being reminded of that obligation formally on multiple occasions. You would hope that the company would then co-operate with the DfT to formulate an action plan that will sort out the problem permanently. You, as an individual, already tried the softly-softly approach and failed, but the DfT should have more clout.
(*) http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2420567&postcount=10
Indeed. If the papers don't misrepresent you, you can be sure the commenters will. It will be along the lines of you trying to play the system or something.
Victim blaming is all the rage these days. You'd have most people just saying you were clearly rude or trying it on, while the other extreme would be sheer hatred towards the train company with no acceptance that it's only a minority of people - but sadly the people that literally place a barrier between you and the train you want.
bnm, I know that you shouldn't have to carry anything with you to prove it is valid but have you received anything officially in writing from the train company confirming it is a valid route?
When I had issues with Scotrail last year that were eventually resolved I took a copy of the email I received from the Scotrail as well as the letter I received from their Customer And Stakeholder Liaison Manager with me the next couple of times I made the same journey.
One one occasion I was told I'd have to pay and when I asked if they were sure and they said yes I took out the letter and email and the station staff decided that they were in the wrong and let me through.
I've had no problems since I produced the letter.
I understand that Paddington is a much bigger station with many more staff than at Aberdeen but could taking something with you help you from any further delays and missing trains or will they think that you've made up the letter/email yourself and continue to get it wrong despite the supposed rebriefing?
When I had issues with Scotrail last year that were eventually resolved I took a copy of the email I received from the Scotrail as well as the letter I received from their Customer And Stakeholder Liaison Manager with me the next couple of times I made the same journey.
One one occasion I was told I'd have to pay and when I asked if they were sure and they said yes I took out the letter and email and the station staff decided that they were in the wrong and let me through.
I've had no problems since I produced the letter.
I understand that Paddington is a much bigger station with many more staff than at Aberdeen but could taking something with you help you from any further delays and missing trains or will they think that you've made up the letter/email yourself and continue to get it wrong despite the supposed rebriefing?
That would be good. There are multiple breaches of the TSA which appear to go unpunished. If the DfT actually started enforcing it properly, then maybe things may change in our favour. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't think the DfT have an appetite for this.
It solves Mac's immediate problem, but the question is how many other people with valid tickets are being stopped because of what is a cultural problem (the "its off peak so it can't be valid, I'm always right" culture)?
Does it solve the immediate problem? If they won't check the validity code what makes you think they'll bother to read a letter?
This is the major concern I have. I get the refunds, compensation and goodwill gestures after each incident because I know what's what and I complain effectively and assertively. I can't however be the only person travelling on Day Returns between the Thames Valley and stations outside Greater London in Kent, Essex, Hertfordshire etc. There's little doubt in my mind that other people are being unnecessarily delayed, excessed, or forced onto LTV stoppers.
Maybe, just maybe, if the broadcast media take an interest I'll get to hear about others who've faced the same issues but have taken what they were told by staff at face value.
When I 'tested' staff at Paddington, the gentleman on the gate referred me to a rather ancient table printed and stuck on the wall, which said what trains could and couldn't be used.
It seemed that he went by that as if it were The Bible, irrespective of the fact that it looked really old, and may not have been correct anyway.
When travelling via London to wherever from my home station I can travel via Paddington or Waterloo (leaving aside a few tickets that NRE reports aren't valid via Paddington, which is the quicker and, often, more convenient route). Many off-peak tickets from my home station permit return travel in the peaks from Waterloo or Paddington.
This is where I fess up. Due to the well-reported issues, I choose to return via Waterloo to avoid boring encounters at the Paddington gateline. So, despite the contriteness of various managers addressing BNM's continuing problems, maybe GWR is winning overall?
This is where I fess up. Due to the well-reported issues, I choose to return via Waterloo to avoid boring encounters at the Paddington gateline. So, despite the contriteness of various managers addressing BNM's continuing problems, maybe GWR is winning overall?
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bb21
Emeritus Moderator
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Some people value principles (in a loose sense), some people value time, and others value convenience, and for different journeys your preference may change. It all comes down to what you consider important, and that being weighted against potential risks for hassle.
andrewkeith5
Member
Indeed this - I've lost count of the number of times I've accepted compensation and caveated it with "but I'd obviously much rather this had been done properly in the first place or sorted out at the time"! Compensation is rarely a match for inconvenience...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Compensating people for inconvenience so they go away and stop whining is so much easier than solving problems. Yet when I report a problem, it is near enough always one that (a) could be fixed and (b) is going to be annoying more than one person. Personally I would rather Delay Repay etc were abolished entirely (which would reduce the volume of complaints about something minor like a half hour delay that wasn't even the TOC's fault) but the TOCs took the time to actually read and resolve complaints, however minor.
The standard letter is a modern[1] scourge - Twitter does help bypass it to some extent, but it depends on who does Twitter for that TOC and how much power they have.
And I *really shouldn't* have to write multiple times just to get somebody to read a complaint properly.
[1] Ish. After the Manchester bombing, when I was dropped off at Deansgate well after the evacuation had started, I wrote to then RRNW saying I thought they should have had a means to stop trains running into central Manchester or at least give warnings - the train had stopped at Wigan Wallgate after evacuation had started so this could have been done. I got a letter back apologising for any delay.
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This is almost exactly the same as the issues I tried to confront from the inside, as it were, when I was working for Great Western.
There was far too much of a reliance on old bits of paper, print outs or handwritten notes, and colleague opinions, instead of actually looking for the source of information to see what is correct and what isn't.
I was honestly appalled at some of the things I was told by people who, frankly, should have known better. It seemed to em as though there were some self appointed guru's who thought that they knew everything, and they simply weren't challenged frequently enough or effectively enough.
And I'm including some of the managers in that. One of them once told me that Reading wasn't allowed to sell a ticket from Pangbourne. Unbelievable.
Two emails this morning from separate addresses. Both appear to be throwaway addresses comprising random letters and numbers.
First one tells me to stop rocking up to the gateline with insufficient time for my ticket validity to be checked. Tells me to stop insisting on speaking to the DSM every time and tells me to stop buying tickets with F3/C4 restrictions from Didcot/Reading when I'm always travelling from further west. Also tells me to stop using those tickets when it's obvious I'm not travelling beyond London. If I don't do these things "we" (that's the word used) will continue to delay you at the gateline.
Second one tells me staff at Paddington are considering industrial action after one gateline staffer was disciplined over this matter.
If these emails are from staff at Paddington then it just confirms my belief that they are a law unto themselves and care not one jot what management tell them.
First one tells me to stop rocking up to the gateline with insufficient time for my ticket validity to be checked. Tells me to stop insisting on speaking to the DSM every time and tells me to stop buying tickets with F3/C4 restrictions from Didcot/Reading when I'm always travelling from further west. Also tells me to stop using those tickets when it's obvious I'm not travelling beyond London. If I don't do these things "we" (that's the word used) will continue to delay you at the gateline.
Second one tells me staff at Paddington are considering industrial action after one gateline staffer was disciplined over this matter.
If these emails are from staff at Paddington then it just confirms my belief that they are a law unto themselves and care not one jot what management tell them.
Don't let them! I personally would be assertive but I understand not everyone is able to assert their rights. Travel via Paddington if you want because, if you are the sort of person who does not like an argument, simply pay the excess, and claim a refund/compensation by email/post.
Quakkerillo
Member
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This is absolutely shameful behaviour.
You shouldn't have to change because they are incompetent.
Also, why would it be obvious you're not travelling beyond London? An anytime return to London is cheaper than the off-peak all the way to Tonbridge if I'm correct, so that makes absolutely no sense.
How can staff plan industrial action? Surely a union should back them, which should not happen, since it's a clear case of their failure. But the again, the ticket barrier staff failures shouldn't happen either.
Oh, I don't believe the content of the emails for one second. I strongly suspect both are from the same person. It's perfectly possible the person sending them isn't even a GWR employee, or is, but not at Paddington.
I'm also not replying to them.
I'm also not replying to them.
Doctor Fegg
Established Member
I can well believe that. Oxford has refused to sell me an Oxford Evening Out ticket. No matter that Cotswold Line ticket offices are closed in the evening and the TVMs don't know about it. "We've been told not to sell it" was the claim.
As for Paddington, I'm tempted to suggest an en masse F3/C4 forum outing.
andrewkeith5
Member
GwR will definitely need to know about those emails - if they are found to be from an employee then the chance of being disciplined is an almost certainty and would be a heavy defence against a union.
A threat to go to the ICO for unnecessary and unauthorised release or access to your personal data is probably also worthwhile, depending on their response, working on the assumption that they are from an employee who has no need to have access to your data and shouldn't be using it for this purpose anyway.
If a union back them on something like this then something really, really is hopelessly wrong...
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As for Paddington, I'm tempted to suggest an en masse F3/C4 forum outing.
I'll be there!
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