The Truronian name is the registered company name for all First Coaches in the UK. The Greyhound services show as operated by Truronian T/A......
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First Great Western to be renamed/reliveried?
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The Truronian name is the registered company name for all First Coaches in the UK. The Greyhound services show as operated by Truronian T/A......
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cjmillsnun
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It does, but as I'm old school I remember red stripes being for the buffet.
3141
Established Member
These things come and go. It may be the result of a re-organisation, or the presence of a forceful character at the top whose ego enjoys seeing everything in a livery he introduced. When several companies are combined you can understand the introduction of a standard livery to convey the message that previously separate entities are now one. Later, some enterprising local managers press for different local identities, which in some cases appeal to local customers compared with the uniformity of the corporate image.
Examples are BR adopting standard liveries from 1948, and the National Bus Company having either “leaf green” or “poppy red” from the early 1970s. After a few years BR reintroduced regional coach colours, and some years after that reverted to just two liveries, blue and grey or just a very plain blue. With sectorisation several new liveries appeared. NBC was pretty rigid in its livery policy, but there were several examples of a slightly different branding for some local services, such as the Hunter and Lancer groups for Midland Red in parts of Warwickshire and Leicestershire.
Naturally, some liveries are better than others. I don’t think that taste is entirely subjective, or at any rate there are some aspects of it that many people agree on, considering some combinations of colours and some layouts to be generally more attractive and others less so. My preference is for liveries that follow the lines of the bodywork quite closely. I am therefore unsympathetic to many current liveries that include several colours which I feel are splashed on almost indiscriminately. But many people, including the design house that specialises in this approach, consider them to be “modern”, “innovative”, “refreshing”, or “bold”.
I wonder what proportion of people actually care what livery their bus or train carries. I suspect it’s an even smaller proportion who are influenced by the livery to travel or not to travel. First are clearly hoping that their new bus livery with a greater emphasis on the area being served will help to rebuild their image among bus travellers who have been unimpressed by them in the past – combining this with efforts to improve the quality of the service they provide. It’s the reality of the service rather than the external appearance of the vehicles that will decide how successful they are. On the railways the scope for changing the service is more limited. It’s not easy to acquire new or additional trains, or improve service frequencies or routes. First may have had more livery changes than most because in Greater Western it was combining three previous operators, and two in Capital Connect. The only other operator to have combined three previous companies was National Express, but I think ONE was not considered to have brought about a major improvement to its train services. The move to include the National Express name in the branding, on buses as well as trains, followed the arrival of Richard Bowker as Chief Executive. They wanted to do it to c2c as well, but that franchise had an outstanding reputation and I think they realised that a complete NatEx rebranding might not be helpful – hence the eventual very low-key addition of their name to the outside of the trains.
Are people confused by the existence of different liveries? In Manchester until the late 1960s at least eight municipal bus companies operated into the city, and there were other companies as well. Some routes were jointly operated by more than one organisation. I don’t recall that anyone couldn’t cope.
On most rail routes there’s only one operator. You go to the station to get a train and it doesn’t alter your readiness to travel if the station signage is the same as in another part of the country or different. That is, if you even know that it’s different elsewhere. A few years ago SWT spent a lot of money – probably hundreds of thousands of £ – installing new white on dark blue station nameboards in place of the ones in their own colours. Passenger numbers have gone up but not for that reason.
It would be quite easy, I am sure, to construct a questionnaire to prove whatever one wanted to prove about liveries. But what it really comes down to is the argument about whether rail services should be in public or private ownership, and whether people like or dislike certain of the current operators.
Examples are BR adopting standard liveries from 1948, and the National Bus Company having either “leaf green” or “poppy red” from the early 1970s. After a few years BR reintroduced regional coach colours, and some years after that reverted to just two liveries, blue and grey or just a very plain blue. With sectorisation several new liveries appeared. NBC was pretty rigid in its livery policy, but there were several examples of a slightly different branding for some local services, such as the Hunter and Lancer groups for Midland Red in parts of Warwickshire and Leicestershire.
Naturally, some liveries are better than others. I don’t think that taste is entirely subjective, or at any rate there are some aspects of it that many people agree on, considering some combinations of colours and some layouts to be generally more attractive and others less so. My preference is for liveries that follow the lines of the bodywork quite closely. I am therefore unsympathetic to many current liveries that include several colours which I feel are splashed on almost indiscriminately. But many people, including the design house that specialises in this approach, consider them to be “modern”, “innovative”, “refreshing”, or “bold”.
I wonder what proportion of people actually care what livery their bus or train carries. I suspect it’s an even smaller proportion who are influenced by the livery to travel or not to travel. First are clearly hoping that their new bus livery with a greater emphasis on the area being served will help to rebuild their image among bus travellers who have been unimpressed by them in the past – combining this with efforts to improve the quality of the service they provide. It’s the reality of the service rather than the external appearance of the vehicles that will decide how successful they are. On the railways the scope for changing the service is more limited. It’s not easy to acquire new or additional trains, or improve service frequencies or routes. First may have had more livery changes than most because in Greater Western it was combining three previous operators, and two in Capital Connect. The only other operator to have combined three previous companies was National Express, but I think ONE was not considered to have brought about a major improvement to its train services. The move to include the National Express name in the branding, on buses as well as trains, followed the arrival of Richard Bowker as Chief Executive. They wanted to do it to c2c as well, but that franchise had an outstanding reputation and I think they realised that a complete NatEx rebranding might not be helpful – hence the eventual very low-key addition of their name to the outside of the trains.
Are people confused by the existence of different liveries? In Manchester until the late 1960s at least eight municipal bus companies operated into the city, and there were other companies as well. Some routes were jointly operated by more than one organisation. I don’t recall that anyone couldn’t cope.
On most rail routes there’s only one operator. You go to the station to get a train and it doesn’t alter your readiness to travel if the station signage is the same as in another part of the country or different. That is, if you even know that it’s different elsewhere. A few years ago SWT spent a lot of money – probably hundreds of thousands of £ – installing new white on dark blue station nameboards in place of the ones in their own colours. Passenger numbers have gone up but not for that reason.
It would be quite easy, I am sure, to construct a questionnaire to prove whatever one wanted to prove about liveries. But what it really comes down to is the argument about whether rail services should be in public or private ownership, and whether people like or dislike certain of the current operators.
In terms of First's livery, I happened to be travelling from Bath Spa to Bristol Temple Meads a fortnight ago, and I did hear a lady point out how she liked the "fancy lines" on the side of a FGW HST. I don't think liveries make a massive difference to people, but I think having a good livery could, in theory, add to customer satisfaction.
scotsman
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I'd argue that the livery design can influence the customer's perception of the product - the more 'modern' the livery, the stronger the impression that the vehicle is new - or, at least, newly refurbished.
Totally agree.
This will become even more apparent over the next ten or so years as older trains and buses are phased out to leave mostly just those built from the early-mid 1990s onwards in service. Since then body shapes have become rather homogenous and hard to date based on the shape alone - experience in US motorsport suggests that a different livery on the same shape can make it look entirely different to the untrained eye.
You only need to look at the 321 demonstrator and see that people will think it's a brand new train.
The refurbished and re-liveried HSTs certainly look a lot newer. If they all got powered doors, I bet a lot of people wouldn't have a clue how old they are.
The same can also be said with ugly 1960s tower blocks that are re-cladded and refurbed inside.
The refurbished and re-liveried HSTs certainly look a lot newer. If they all got powered doors, I bet a lot of people wouldn't have a clue how old they are.
The same can also be said with ugly 1960s tower blocks that are re-cladded and refurbed inside.
Brunel
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- 1 Nov 2012
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A newly refurbished FGW HST is back at Old Oak. And First is definitely on the carriages. Looks good. New underskirts and repainted. Best of British!!
What else has been done to this rake of Mk3s? I know First recently let a contract out for new underskirts but as the rake of Mk3s looked to be a mixture (not a complete set) then im wondering what else has been done to the rake - it presume it's still in Dynamic Lines though?
Brunel
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It was a complete rake that has been repainted and
new under skirts and the bogies given a spruce. The consist went down to Laira yesterday morning for a 'E' exam. There were seats in the vestibule areas. Don't know whether the wi-fi has been fitted to that consist. I think the wi-fi is only going on the long distance HSTs at first. Interiors have been given a repainted and clean up.
The old Motorail vans are down at Old Oak as well. Still in the original FGW green. I think they will be used as barrier vehicles when taking sets up north for the refresh.
The FGW colour scheme is still one of the best. Especially when it is nice and new
new under skirts and the bogies given a spruce. The consist went down to Laira yesterday morning for a 'E' exam. There were seats in the vestibule areas. Don't know whether the wi-fi has been fitted to that consist. I think the wi-fi is only going on the long distance HSTs at first. Interiors have been given a repainted and clean up.
The old Motorail vans are down at Old Oak as well. Still in the original FGW green. I think they will be used as barrier vehicles when taking sets up north for the refresh.
The FGW colour scheme is still one of the best. Especially when it is nice and new
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If this is the stock that went to Wabtec in September, this video of it arriving at Kilmarnock shows that while eight coaches were sent, there were two coach Es - one at the front of the rake - but no buffet car in the formation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3YBOZS9D4
and there's a picture of a couple of coaches in the yard at Wabtec in November here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossco156433/10962978494/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft3YBOZS9D4
and there's a picture of a couple of coaches in the yard at Wabtec in November here
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rossco156433/10962978494/
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thelongestroad
Member
Are they putting the vinyl dynamic lines back on or leaving them blue like the 150/1s and some of the 153s?
I'm intrigued now. That picture of the Mk3s being shunted around Kilmarnock seems to show what must have been an ex Mk3 TRFB judging by the roof ribs and the window positions - presumably there must have been the last few in storage heading up there, But the only video I've seen of the rake heading back into England conveys a full sized Buffet Car - None went up in the video. However, one did also seem to make it's way up to Kilmarnock in that first video too.
But others seem to have gone up in what appears to be another rake.
(marginally pedantic but you get to notice these things over time!)
I gather that these are just overhauls of the worst of the HST Mk3s- refreshing and repainting is included, which should cure the leaks in some of the Mk3s. The contract for new underfairings was let by FGW in the summer.
Not that intriguing. As I pointed out in this thread http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94358&page=2 five unused buffets are being converted into TSOs to assist with the programme to convert some first class accommodation on FGW HSTs into standard.
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