• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

First Great Western to be renamed/reliveried?

Status
Not open for further replies.

GatwickDepress

Established Member
Joined
14 Jan 2013
Messages
2,499
Location
Leeds
I know they started in blue and grey and at privatization were in the intercity livery which had a red band but what were the other two liveries?
Blue and yellow, Executive (yellow and grey with the white sides/red band starting at the guard's office), then with sectorisation came Swallow...would the buffered power cars with the all yellow fronts count as the other livery? :?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Zoe

Established Member
Joined
22 Aug 2008
Messages
5,905
Blue and yellow
Sorry, I waas referring to the coaches when I said blue and grey, the power cars were of course largely blue and yellow although I beleive the blue and grey did start towards towards the rear of the power car and before the first coach.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Also when was the "executive" livery you refer to introduced? If it was later than 1982 then it woud have also been after sectorization.
 
Last edited:

Eagle

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2011
Messages
7,106
Location
Leamingrad / Blanfrancisco
Sorry, I waas referring to the coaches when I said blue and grey, the power cars were of course largely blue and yellow although I beleive the blue and grey did start towards towards the rear of the power car and before the first coach.

The blue/grey on the power car denoted the luggage area, as that was deemed not to be part of the "locomotive" bit of the train (denoted by yellow and blue).
 

313103

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2006
Messages
1,595
How many liveries have First Great Western had since they started? I am sure they have had so many that you could do a set of an HST and have one car done in every livery of FGW.
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
6,058
How many liveries have First Great Western had since they started? I am sure they have had so many that you could do a set of an HST and have one car done in every livery of FGW.

3 under FGW, and another under Great Western, which obviously stayed around after the First group buyout.
Merlin-The original Great Western livery of Green and Ivory.
Fag Packet-Vinyls applied over the Merlin livery which added the Gold stripe and First branding.
Barbie-Standard, at the time, First Group livery of blue and purple.
Dynamic Lines-Dark blue with pink doors and the dynamic lines vinyls.

If you include unit you also have Local Lines, which is Dynamic Lines with local place names instead of lines, and the new Plain Blue livery which is basically Dynamic Lines without the vinyls.
 

Eagle

Established Member
Joined
20 Feb 2011
Messages
7,106
Location
Leamingrad / Blanfrancisco
Remember there's one HST in an aborted version of Dynamic Lines where the wavy lines continue all the way to the ends of the powercars. Also there were two versions of the Barbie livery; the earlier one had more white around the front.
 

TEW

Established Member
Joined
16 May 2008
Messages
6,058
The HST in the older version of Dynamic Lines was just one short set (5 carriages IIRC) which was a complete vinyl application and only done to launch the new franchise in 2006. The coaches were put into the standard Dynamic Lines livery when refurbished. The first version of Barbie was only applied to a limited number of powercars too IIRC, and it was just the change of a small strip of white to blue. I wouldn't count either as separate liveries really.
 

Manchester77

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2012
Messages
2,628
Location
Manchester
Blue and yellow, Executive (yellow and grey with the white sides/red band starting at the guard's office), then with sectorisation came Swallow...would the buffered power cars with the all yellow fronts count as the other livery? :?

Thought it was
Black and Yellow
Blue and Yellow
Executive
Swallow

And yes FGW have had 5 HST liverys, here is the unique all dynamic lines set
http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/Archive-Images/43/43004-43009-03-04-06-1Z30-PAD-PENZ-CREECH.jpg
 

Polo Mint

Member
Joined
24 Oct 2013
Messages
96
I am not surprised, while the First reputation is increasing it would be sensible to leave the name out of rail franchises in my opinion.

First are usually pictured, at least in my mind, by buses carrying lots of people and I don't think that image would be ideal for someone wanting to purchase a first class ticket on a long rail journey.

Its a shame as I like the dynamic lines livery, it is a shame they didn't use that livery on their buses/

I'd like to see that for the whole of the UK. I have no issue with a private operator running a specific service, but feel the public would prefer (and be less confused by) standard liveries for trains, standard colour schemes and signage at stations and so on.

There would be nothing to stop a private operator having its logo somewhere on the front/rear carriage (near the cab) or on easily changed posters inside.

(Actually, it wouldn't be that bad to still have a company name on easily removed vinyls on the whole of the train).

I'd have one design for 'normal' trains and one for Intercity services, re-introduce the yellow stripe for first class and, possibly, use the opportunity to think of other clever things like some sort of markings to signify areas for wheelchairs or bikes etc.

Agreed, I don't see the need to have their name plastered everywhere, it can be off-putting.
 

D1009

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2012
Messages
3,166
Location
Stoke Gifford
If the trains are being run by different organisations, surely it's not unreasonable that they should appear different to the customer? If they were all the same livery it would lead to a lot of confusion in people's minds as to who to complain to?
 

badassunicorn

Member
Joined
8 Jul 2012
Messages
436
I saw a FCC 365 with vinyls removed in the spray booth the other day and it was still in NSE stripes underneath!
 

Manchester77

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2012
Messages
2,628
Location
Manchester
Imagine that's what the Thames Turbos will be like too! There's a video on youtube of a southeastern networker and when the doors open you can see the striped in the small gap, NSE lives on!
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
29,423
Location
UK
I saw a FCC 365 with vinyls removed in the spray booth the other day and it was still in NSE stripes underneath!

The NSE colours are painted on, while the FCC livery is just a vinyl on top?

ISTR that the vinyls weren't applied until the original paint warranty expired or something?
 

Skimble19

Established Member
Joined
12 Dec 2009
Messages
1,502
Location
London
I saw a FCC 365 with vinyls removed in the spray booth the other day and it was still in NSE stripes underneath!

Certainly with the units in FCC livery the paint was only rubbed down, never replaced.. Not sure if it was even rubbed down on the 4 units that are (amazingly) still in wagn advertising liveries.. :lol:
 

heart-of-wessex

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2005
Messages
3,040
Location
Trowbridge
Barbie-Standard, at the time, First Group livery of blue and purple.

Although IIRC the power cars had 3 variants, one white front at the cab side's, one blue front with some sort of swoosh shape, like the pink stripe at the front, which was outlined in white, and a plain blue front. I believe the first two didn't last that long.
 

sprinterguy

Established Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,304
Location
Macclesfield
Also when was the "executive" livery you refer to introduced? If it was later than 1982 then it woud have also been after sectorization.
The Intercity Executive livery was launched in October 1983, initially on the Manchester Pullman mark 2 rake and one Western region HST, very much as a product of sectorisation.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thought it was
Black and Yellow
Blue and Yellow
Executive
Swallow
Only one power car, 43002, received the yellow and black livery forward of the luggage van, and it was painted out before it left Crewe works. Though initially a black infill was used for the "Intercity 125" branding on the power car sides, as the vinyls had been ordered before the change in livery had been decided on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Although IIRC the power cars had 3 variants, one white front at the cab side's, one blue front with some sort of swoosh shape, like the pink stripe at the front, which was outlined in white, and a plain blue front. I believe the first two didn't last that long.
Indeed - The first variant with a white cab side was hastily dropped after only a handful of power cars had been so treated, as it showed up the dirt and carbon deposits from the exhaust too easily, and for some reason the second scheme, with the dark blue "swoosh" lined in white, was also shortlived.
 
Last edited:

starrymarkb

Established Member
Joined
4 Aug 2009
Messages
5,985
Location
Exeter
Although IIRC the power cars had 3 variants, one white front at the cab side's, one blue front with some sort of swoosh shape, like the pink stripe at the front, which was outlined in white, and a plain blue front. I believe the first two didn't last that long.

I think the first two only made it onto a few powercars, it was fairly quickly realised by TPTB that the large areas of white were not going to stay clean for long on a Valenta PC. (I suspect the guys that painted them knew this but Aberdeen overrulled). The majority of repaints just had the purple with no white.

National Express made the same mistake on EC.
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,789
Location
Hampshire
Its a shame as I like the dynamic lines livery, it is a shame they didn't use that livery on their buses/

Agreed. It's in my opinion one of the smartest liveries the HSTs have ever carried and (certainly the HST version with no light blue fade) one of the best liveries we've seen in a long long time, looking modern smart and fresh. I just find it rather frustrating that First seem to still have this odd mentality of it works well so we'll tweak/remove/replace it again.

As for the Dynamic Lines on their buses, they did at least the back of a Alexander Royale a few years ago in Dynamic Lines for TPE and it did look rather smart - even the idea of using a revised 'local Lines' livery would do well on their buses - certainly better than the confusing effort they've set upon now - which looks even more ridiculous on the single deck vehicles as you can't work out that the lines are actually a stylised Flying F!
 

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
8,850
Location
SE London
Scotrail is branded using a Scottish Government livery and brand, any operator taking on the TOC has to use the same one. I think that's a good idea, just as all London bus operators have to use the same livery.

Having all London bus operators use roughly the same red livery works well because buses form only a small proportion of road traffic in London - so the red theme helps the TfL buses to be immediately recognizable amongst the other traffic (and in particular easily distinguishable from non-TfL coaches etc.).

If, hypothetically, TfL-controlled buses were almost the *only* traffic on London's roads - a situation much more analogous to railways - then there would not only be no point in having a common colour scheme, but doing so would just make the roads look dull and monotonous - every vehicle would be red!

I personally like seeing trains in different operators' colours, and I'd hate to see all trains the same colour - it would so far as I can see serve no purpose, and also make the railways look somewhat boring. Prominent operator-specific colours are also marginally helpful on occasions - if, say, I know that my train is a Southern one, then I can easily ignore the FCC or SWT-coloured trains in the station.

On the other hand, universal markers - like the yellow stripe for first class - are useful. I'd be very happy to see those brought back and enforced across operators.

After all, you wouldn't insist on ASDA, Sainsburys and Tesco all adopting the same colour scheme just because they are all supermarkets, would you!
 

jon0844

Veteran Member
Joined
1 Feb 2009
Messages
29,423
Location
UK
I like different liveries too, but have to admit that when I go abroad and use public transport (especially buses) it's better when they're all one colour just like in London (even if that's blue, green or whatever). Ditto for taxis.

It might be boring, but it still makes more sense.
 

Solent&Wessex

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2009
Messages
2,711
There is a daytime run booked for this Thursday from Preston to Oxford Road and back for the first "public" outing of the new TPE 350 units. It is running as a launch train for invited guests, media etc. It is reportedly going to stand at Oxford Road for those guests to partake of a lunch reception and allow time to "admire" the new train. I've not seen the unit recently so not sure of its current livery but I would have thought if it was going to be branded out of its as delivered plain grey then it would be done by then.
 

pt_mad

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2011
Messages
2,960
Surely First have bigger priorities than changing their livery AGAIN.
 

Polo Mint

Member
Joined
24 Oct 2013
Messages
96
Agreed. It's in my opinion one of the smartest liveries the HSTs have ever carried and (certainly the HST version with no light blue fade) one of the best liveries we've seen in a long long time, looking modern smart and fresh. I just find it rather frustrating that First seem to still have this odd mentality of it works well so we'll tweak/remove/replace it again.

As for the Dynamic Lines on their buses, they did at least the back of a Alexander Royale a few years ago in Dynamic Lines for TPE and it did look rather smart - even the idea of using a revised 'local Lines' livery would do well on their buses - certainly better than the confusing effort they've set upon now - which looks even more ridiculous on the single deck vehicles as you can't work out that the lines are actually a stylised Flying F!

The new livery has a stylised F? I don't see it. I prefer the new bus livery than the old, but neither look great.

And yes FGW have had 5 HST liverys, here is the unique all dynamic lines set
http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/Archive-Images/43/43004-43009-03-04-06-1Z30-PAD-PENZ-CREECH.jpg

And very smart it looks too in that excellent shot. Thanks.[/QUOTE]

One of the best liveries imo. Why they need to spend money changing it again I don't know.

Good shot, looks very good.
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,789
Location
Hampshire
The new livery has a stylised F? I don't see it. I prefer the new bus livery than the old, but neither look great.

That's the problem with it, especially when First - who at first weren't going to place adverts onto the new livery buses to keep some of the smartness, have since gone and done just that.

It's towards the rear where the stylisedF comes into it, if you look towards the rear end of the enviro you'll see that those lines form the Flying F. -
_
_ / /_
_/_ /


http://www.flickr.com/photos/luketjenkins/11088864095/in/pool-first_newlivery/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/55205968@N03/11181194013/in/pool-first_newlivery

http://www.flickr.com/photos/luketjenkins/10870484515/in/pool-first_newlivery/

It still does look a mess though, especially where the Flying F is merged on the rear.

As for First Group's Rail division, i'd like to hope they keep the smart Dynamic Lines livery, but I fear that something originating from the new Bus livery will probably happen.
 

Attachments

  • First Logo Bus.png
    First Logo Bus.png
    1.8 MB · Views: 76
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top