First Group: General Discussion

[vla50]

Why? What has been said?

AIUI - it was initially the plan for E400 Cities to move from Glasgow off the Glasgow Airport 500 service out to the Aircoach operation however it appears that the Jurassic Coaster MMCs are moving instead, so just assumed that those would instead replace the MMCs in Weymouth

 

[F Great Eastern]

AIUI - it was initially the plan for E400 Cities to move from Glasgow off the Glasgow Airport 500 service out to the Aircoach operation however it appears that the Jurassic Coaster MMCs are moving instead, so just assumed that those would instead replace the MMCs in Weymouth

It makes no sense but little of what Aircoach has done recently makes any sense.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

AIUI - it was initially the plan for E400 Cities to move from Glasgow off the Glasgow Airport 500 service out to the Aircoach operation however it appears that the Jurassic Coaster MMCs are moving instead, so just assumed that those would instead replace the MMCs in Weymouth

That’s what I wondered as I thought it was mooted that they would move from Glasgow to Dublin

 

[vla50]

It makes no sense but little of what Aircoach has done recently makes any sense.

Only thing that springs to mind is fewer than 10 Deckers were needed and First saw it sensible to move them to Weymouth where other DDs could also be freed up (B9s?). Given the push for fleet standardisation

 

[JumpinTrainz]

Only thing that springs to mind is fewer than 10 Deckers were needed and First saw it sensible to move them to Weymouth where other DDs could also be freed up (B9s?). Given the push for fleet standardisation

Makes sense from a standardisation point of view but the E400City’s are literally airport spec and are much nicer/newer buses than the MMCs being sent.

 

[Fin447]

Perhaps both are going over

 

[F Great Eastern]

Only thing that springs to mind is fewer than 10 Deckers were needed and First saw it sensible to move them to Weymouth where other DDs could also be freed up (B9s?). Given the push for fleet standardisation

Sadly the way Aircoach has been run over the past couple of years and their vehicle choices and commercial choices has led a once profitable company into one that is heavily loss making as First continue to penny pinch and run far inferior vehicles to the competition. National Express in particular have been laughing literally all the way to the bank on the corridors which First was once very strong on.

They cannot hope to go head to head with National Express who operate premium marque coaches on the route by offering a standard city bus at the same price replacing what are ordinary coaches. There is no way they can win that battle. That's before you mention the standard city bus that runs every 10 minutes to the airport for a fraction of the fare that Aircoach charge on the routes these deckers are for. There's just no commercial sense in it unless they have something more up their sleeve.

If Aircoach want to go to deckers for capacity reason or possibly to try and price something between the city bus and a coach then there MIGHT be a market for that, but that would need the kind of vehicles you see on Stansted Airlink, Glasgow Airport Express or Lothian Buses' Airlink to make it attractive. If I can pay €2.50 for a modern local city bus to the airport with luggage racks and USB ports, I'm not going to pay four times that for a mid-life bus that might save me 10-15 minutes and be slightly more comfortable. Now if it was a coach or something that had a premium level of comfort like the dedicated airport buses do then it might be a different story.

If true this is just another nail in the coffin of Aircoach. Their whole USP was that they offered a luxury coach service that appealed to people who don't use buses. They built a niche and were successful at that. They were pretty much the benchmark when it came to comfortable coach and had the slogan 'Travel in Luxury' for years. But the more that they've been integrated into First, the more basic the product has become. They've progressively gone from large, spacious well spec'd coaches to vehicles that have become more and more tight on space with an ever more basic interior spec to the point that they have gone from being the benchmark to being at the very back of the grid when it comes to the onboard environment.

 

[Metal Mickey]

I doubt that anyone is able to confirm on this form whether the existing Airport vehicles are to remain at First Glasgow or be transferred elsewhere so it’s a case of wait and see.

 

[Volvodart]

I doubt that anyone is able to confirm on this form whether the existing Airport vehicles are to remain at First Glasgow or be transferred elsewhere so it’s a case of wait and see.

It may change anyway depending on how long the electric buses are off service for repair.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Seems to be a bit of info and a bit of conjecture on these Dublin/Glasgow airport buses. It would certainly make more sense for the Glasgow deckers to head to Dublin than some older mmcs that had a few years grinding round Bristol before then having the joys of Abbotsbury Hill to deal with. Perhaps we need to wait to see what is confirmed (if it hasn't been already)?

On the latter point, some more modern fleet that has the power for the hills on the Jurassic Coast would be welcomed. IME, the standard ex Manc e400s are competent but are now 12 years old and aren't really up to it whilst even the B9s seem to be kept well away from the JC routes nowadays.

 

[vla50]

Seems to be a bit of info and a bit of conjecture on these Dublin/Glasgow airport buses. It would certainly make more sense for the Glasgow deckers to head to Dublin than some older mmcs that had a few years grinding round Bristol before then having the joys of Abbotsbury Hill to deal with. Perhaps we need to wait to see what is confirmed (if it hasn't been already)?

On the latter point, some more modern fleet that has the power for the hills on the Jurassic Coast would be welcomed. IME, the standard ex Manc e400s are competent but are now 12 years old and aren't really up to it whilst even the B9s seem to be kept well away from the JC routes nowadays.

Saw on Facebook that this transfer away is apparently temporary - so does raise questions as to whether all 7 will be on loan or not. I suppose First are taking the opportunity to re-spray these MMCs whilst they can! Suspect it'll be the Glasgow Cities after all.
As for your point on whether anything newer may be used on the Jurassic Coaster - I cannot see the 14 plate E400s remaining on the Portsmouth Park and Ride for long given the Streetdecks are starting to enter service, and for fleet standardisation purposes (ie transferring some of the newer B9s to elsewhere in the group), I wouldn't be too surprised if they rocked up to Weymouth in the next few weeks. I'm not sure how much better they are than the ex Manc ones though!

 

[Volvodart]

Saw on Facebook that this transfer away is apparently temporary - so does raise questions as to whether all 7 will be on loan or not. I suppose First are taking the opportunity to re-spray these MMCs whilst they can! Suspect it'll be the Glasgow Cities after all.
As for your point on whether anything newer may be used on the Jurassic Coaster - I cannot see the 14 plate E400s remaining on the Portsmouth Park and Ride for long given the Streetdecks are starting to enter service, and for fleet standardisation purposes (ie transferring some of the newer B9s to elsewhere in the group), I wouldn't be too surprised if they rocked up to Weymouth in the next few weeks. I'm not sure how much better they are than the ex Manc ones though!

Maybe that is the first of the electric buses which will need certified, which usually takes some time, so the airport buses could still be going there after the electric buses enter service.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Seems to be a bit of info and a bit of conjecture on these Dublin/Glasgow airport buses. It would certainly make more sense for the Glasgow deckers to head to Dublin than some older mmcs that had a few years grinding round Bristol before then having the joys of Abbotsbury Hill to deal with. Perhaps we need to wait to see what is confirmed (if it hasn't been already)?

On the latter point, some more modern fleet that has the power for the hills on the Jurassic Coast would be welcomed. IME, the standard ex Manc e400s are competent but are now 12 years old and aren't really up to it whilst even the B9s seem to be kept well away from the JC routes nowadays.

Hard to know, it would make much more sense for the Glasgow deckers to go to Dublin, but speaking to people on the ground in Dublin, they would not be a bit surprised if they ended up with something different. They're increasingly run from the UK (who know a lot about running buses in the UK but little about coaches in Ireland) and the local management that does exist had no experience in the bus and coach market before taking charge just over a year ago and Aircoach has probably had it's worst year in business this year with industrial relations issues, very poor reviews, poor reliability, undeclared cancellations and the axing of local customer care (now run from Leeds at heavily restricted hours) and that's before we even talk about the huge loss they have made and how the competition have been able to exploit their weaknesses.

They ordered a batch of Mercedes Tourismos in the highest density configuration possible for intercity work with a pretty low interior specification but full size wheelchair lift at the front. This both meant an uncomfortable experience for Intercity journeys of three hours plus and also the wheelchair lift vastly reduced luggage capacity to the point that ROI batch had to be taken off the Intercity routes as they could not accommodate the luggage volume needed and put on much shorter distance higher frequency services that are now running around with a toilet permanently locked out of use and already due to be replaced on the 705X after 2 years of service.

Seems strange to repaint the whole 7 vehicles though for a temporary solution as some are saying. One of the few positives that Aircoach has left is it's distinctive light blue livery that sticks out (although for some silly reason they're now viny ling over windows with the A from Aircoach) so putting stuff in an interim livery or abandoning that seems silly. However if they are going to run buses instead of coaches a rebrand for those services might not be such a bad idea as having the name Aircoach run by a city bus sounds stupid. Ironically the Glasgow Airport Express Livery I think with different vinyls might be good for that. It's bright and would stick out massively.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Saw on Facebook that this transfer away is apparently temporary - so does raise questions as to whether all 7 will be on loan or not. I suppose First are taking the opportunity to re-spray these MMCs whilst they can! Suspect it'll be the Glasgow Cities after all.
As for your point on whether anything newer may be used on the Jurassic Coaster - I cannot see the 14 plate E400s remaining on the Portsmouth Park and Ride for long given the Streetdecks are starting to enter service, and for fleet standardisation purposes (ie transferring some of the newer B9s to elsewhere in the group), I wouldn't be too surprised if they rocked up to Weymouth in the next few weeks. I'm not sure how much better they are than the ex Manc ones though!

It would seem strange to send what are essentially bog standard buses (even if they did get a light retrim a few years ago) to operate the airport service on loan and without luggage racks when Glasgow vehicles are coming free in a matter of weeks or so. @fgwrich knows the Aircoach operation intimately and the changes already enacted seem to have been short-sighted so who knows.

Whilst the Portsmouth e400s will be considerably lower mileage, I'd still question as to their allocation to JC routes. I can see them heading there and the B9s being moved on but that still leaves a large gap to fill and more so if the mmcs head off.

 

[vla50]

Will the EV Conversion Streetdecks continue the displacement of B9s in Norwich? I seem to recall there are some Badgerline Streetdecks due in to Norwich too - but 7 EV conversion Streetdecks are tipped to join the Norwich fleet.

 

[Volvodart]

Acquisition of Matthews Coach Hire

Acquisition of Matthews Coach Hire

Released : 04.02.2025

FIRSTGROUP PLC
Acquisition of Matthews coach hire
FirstGroup plc (the `Group') is pleased to announce that it has acquired Matthews Coach Hire Limited (`Matthews'), an independent, family-owned coach and bus operator in Ireland, founded in 1995.
With a fleet of more than 40 vehicles that includes two newly-acquired electric coaches the business is built around the operation of six licensed, commercial routes between two key and rapidly growing commuter towns, Drogheda and Dundalk, to the northeast of Dublin. The acquisition includes the operator's freehold depot, located between Dublin and Belfast.

For the 12 months to August 2023, Matthews reported revenues of €8.8m and EBIT of €1.2m.
The acquisition complements our Aircoach business, provides increased access to the non-airport commuter market in Ireland, widens our stakeholder network and gives us the opportunity to diversify into local B2B markets.
Members of Matthews' leadership team will remain with the business to lead the day-to-day operations with oversight provided by Kim Swan, Managing Director, Aircoach and the wider First Bus leadership team.
Commenting on the acquisition, Graham Sutherland, FirstGroup Chief Executive Officer said:
"The acquisition of Matthews Coach Hire, an established, profitable business builds on our recent strategic acquisitions in First Bus. It will complement our existing operations and allow us to expand our presence in the non-airport commuter and B2B markets in Ireland and we look forward to taking the business forward."

 

[geoffk]

What's the regulatory system in Ireland now? It's a few years since I've been over and only saw Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann and a small independent running a town service in Cobh. I knew First had a presence in coaching.

 

[berneyarms]

What's the regulatory system in Ireland now? It's a few years since I've been over and only saw Dublin Bus, Bus Éireann and a small independent running a town service in Cobh. I knew First had a presence in coaching.

The National Transport Authority (NTA) are responsible for issuing commercial bus licences.

Everything that you might need to know is available on the page below or accessible via the drop-down menu near the top of the page:

Commercial Bus Services

What we do Under the Public Transport Regulation Act 2009 (PTR Act 2009), the National Transport Authority is responsible for the licensing of public bus passenger services. Licensed public bus passenger services are often called ‘commercial bus services’, as they are operated without any public...

www.nationaltransport.ie

They also specify PSO services (bus and rail) and issue contracts for these.

Public Transport Services

www.nationaltransport.ie

 

[Andyh82]

A bit of a random one, I’ve been looking through some old fleet records and are wondering, does anyone know if any buses ever carried the following fleet numbers?

30080-30084
50459
50493
62280
68538, 68539

 

[Kernow Dave]

I've got
50493 as F652 XMS Mercedes-Benz 811D Alexander Sprint
62280 as WSV 141 Leyland Tiger Plaxton

Hope it helps.

 

[Goldfish62]

In recent days I've seen photos of corporate livery repaints at Weymouth and Slough. I've also heard that the first Tinner-branded Cornwall MMC may have gone for repaint (about time!) into corporate livery.

Does that leave untouched areas (excepting Leicester, Solent and Greater Manchester of course)?

 

[43055]

In recent days I've seen photos of corporate livery repaints at Weymouth and Slough. I've also heard that the first Tinner-branded Cornwall MMC may have gone for repaint (about time!) into corporate livery.

Does that leave untouched areas (excepting Leicester, Solent and Greater Manchester of course)?

Worcestershire currently have none now the Streetlites have moved elsewhere.

 

[-Colly405-]

What about West of Englad? THey are busy repainting into asda sorry I mean Flixbus sorry I mean WECA green

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

In recent days I've seen photos of corporate livery repaints at Weymouth and Slough. I've also heard that the first Tinner-branded Cornwall MMC may have gone for repaint (about time!) into corporate livery.

Does that leave untouched areas (excepting Leicester, Solent and Greater Manchester of course)?

At least Cornwall now has a repaint (rather than a cascade) - I don't think South Wales has repainted anything, with its only examples being ex Bee Network vehicles that were repainted in Bristol and then sent to South Wales

 

[Andyh82]

Unpopular opinion but there are a decent number of buses around Halifax and Huddersfield in Ultraviolet with the new logo, and I’m starting to think it looks ok.

The fact it is always applied in white rather than the neon pink we were first shown helps a lot

 

[Goldfish62]

Unpopular opinion but there are a decent number of buses around Halifax and Huddersfield in Ultraviolet with the new logo, and I’m starting to think it looks ok.

The fact it is always applied in white rather than the neon pink we were first shown helps a lot

Yes, I've got used to it too.

 

[Bristol LH]

At least Cornwall now has a repaint (rather than a cascade) - I don't think South Wales has repainted anything, with its only examples being ex Bee Network vehicles that were repainted in Bristol and then sent to South Wales

That's correct - six StreetLites transferred from FWoE and their livery application is yet to be completed.

 

[G760XRE]

Putting this info here, as the First Berkshire & Thames Valley thread is locked for some reason. Sorry mods if I've missed something.

Noted today at First Potteries Adderley Green depot was Streetlite 47692 SL15RWO freshly repainted into Ultraviolet livery. Long way to come to get repainted!
Picture (mine) - https://www.flickr.com/photos/195213371@N03/54328620801/in/datetaken-public/

 

[Russel]

Putting this info here, as the First Berkshire & Thames Valley thread is locked for some reason. Sorry mods if I've missed something.

Noted today at First Potteries Adderley Green depot was Streetlite 47692 SL15RWO freshly repainted into Ultraviolet livery. Long way to come to get repainted!
Picture (mine) - https://www.flickr.com/photos/195213371@N03/54328620801/in/datetaken-public/

I have to say, the more I see of the new livery, the more I like it.

 

[KendalKing]

I have to say, the more I see of the new livery, the more I like it.

Same with me.