First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[TheGrandWazoo]

This thing about GoAhead not having the cheapest price keeps coming up. The fact is that each route was tendered individually and GoAhead happened to price an option for everything. There is no suggestion that First or anyone did likewise.

I believe it was @richw who stated that this had been stated by the FK management; as I think was also mentioned, there were various declarations/stipulations within the quality element that FK did not wish to accede to; part of that might also have been areas that were a hiding to nothing in terms of contractuals or timescales.

 

[cnjb8]

Anyone know are first kernow due any 53 plate geminis from Bath as they have been moved out due to the low emissions zone.

It was stated that some might be turned into open top buses for other First routes. (not sure how true).

But they might be a bit old for Cornwall, but there was word of buses of somerset getting Geminis and these would be a good fit.

Why would Buses of Somerset want Volvos that are the same age or at best 2 years older than the vehicles they are replacing? In any case, First Hampshire & Dorset have the four for open top conversion.

The Tridents aren't in the best of nick, probably the Geminis even at that age will be an improvement.

The Bath 53 plate Geminis are heading to First Wessex for O/T conversion. However, whilst it's been mentioned that more Geminis are due, they aren't going for any that age IIRC. As @iantherev says, there's not much point sending 53 plates to replace a mix of 52 and 53 plate Tridents in Somerset.

There are some newer B7TLs in Bath and Bristol (ranging from 54 to 07 plates) and it might be that they are destined to head to FSW, but they could as easily head elsewhere (e.g. Essex) and that others could appear from somewhere like West Yorkshire. It's boring, I know, but just wait and see what happens.




It would've been cheaper to send @RELL6L by stretch limo!!

How many does the 89 carry, I wonder, for its £500k per annum

There are no more 53 plate Geminis in Bath now, the last of these have gone to First Hampshire & Dorset.
The only buses left which don’t comply with the Bath LEZ are 32543/4/5 (although even some of these may have left) and withdrawn / delicensed 32360.
Others on this forum may have more up to date information about these four.

Edit Withdrawn 32291 may also still be parked up at Bath but again I have no up to date info.

If First want the 20 closed top this year, then it's likely some of the ex Bath deckers will go to Weston for that purpose

 

[richw]

I believe it was @richw who stated that this had been stated by the FK management; as I think was also mentioned, there were various declarations/stipulations within the quality element that FK did not wish to accede to; part of that might also have been areas that were a hiding to nothing in terms of contractuals or timescales.

The Information given to us was that the go ahead bid scored highly on ‘quality’ at a higher price. ‘Quality’ having the heavier weighting in the scoring

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The Information given to us was that the go ahead bid scored highly on ‘quality’ at a higher price. ‘Quality’ having the heavier weighting in the scoring

I thought that was what was said.

Quality in this instance is not the actual quality experienced by the passenger but satisfying the myriad of bizarre, extensive requirements of the tendering authority!

If First want the 20 closed top this year, then it's likely some of the ex Bath deckers will go to Weston for that purpose

Open or closed top isn't the issue. It's that they've had two vehicles damaged by overhanging branches in recent months and North Somerset Council are not doing as they should an either sorting it out, or permitting First to sort it out.

Don't know what they are like underneath but up top, there ain't much to choose between 2003 deckers of either type. Suspect that BoS would prefer some newer Geminis - FWoE has some B7TLs (54/55/07 plates) but as I said, they could just as easily come from West Yorkshire or wherever.

 

[richw]

Bodmin

I believe Bodmin now has a higher pvr than before under the tenders (once schools and colleges return).
This week with rail Bodmin probably has the longest spread of any depot between earliest start and latest finish. The late driver is booked to fuel and clean and finishes around midnight, the first rail replacement duty books on at 0210 (I drew the short straw on that one, but finish by 0930!)

 

[Goldfish62]

I believe it was @richw who stated that this had been stated by the FK management; as I think was also mentioned, there were various declarations/stipulations within the quality element that FK did not wish to accede to; part of that might also have been areas that were a hiding to nothing in terms of contractuals or timescales.

Well if that's what FK management said that must mean that they also bid for everything and also put in a combined bid on the same basis, otherwise it's like comparing the proverbial apples with pears.

The only thing I can think is meant is that the successful GoAhead combined bid came in more expensive than the sum of the cheapest bids from all operators (which included FK). In this case the quality score would probably have been high for the whole network being operated by one operator, together with keeping the independents in business through sub-contracting.

There's certainly no high quality in the usual sense. TfC is a plain vanilla operation. The fact that one of GSW's senior managers stated in Coach and Bus Week that he doesn't believe in strong branding or "quizmos" on buses must have raised a few eyebrows elsewhere in the Go-Ahead Group.

 

[richw]

The fact that one of GSW's senior managers stated in Coach and Bus Week that he doesn't believe in strong branding or "quizmos" on buses must have raised a few eyebrows elsewhere in the Go-Ahead Group.

There seems to be a few lately with this opinion on enthusiast groups on Facebook, don’t know the backgrounds of such commenters, but there is an opinion with the anti-Stenning brigade that buses should get people from a to b, and not be promoted as leisure products and not be marketed.
Personally I find Stennings work to be a great advert for modern buses and the more people we can attract the better for the business and bus travel as a whole, whilst in theory saving tax payer money as you develop a business that doesn’t Rely on tax payer subsidy.
It seems to be lesser known that Stenning does a lot of the publicity artwork as well as then bus liveries

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Well if that's what FK management said that must mean that they also bid for everything and also put in a combined bid on the same basis, otherwise it's like comparing the proverbial apples with pears.

The only thing I can think is meant is that the successful GoAhead combined bid came in more expensive than the sum of the cheapest bids from all operators (which included FK). In this case the quality score would probably have been high for the whole network being operated by one operator, together with keeping the independents in business through sub-contracting.

There's certainly no high quality in the usual sense. TfC is a plain vanilla operation. The fact that one of GSW's senior managers stated in Coach and Bus Week that he doesn't believe in strong branding or "quizmos" on buses must have raised a few eyebrows elsewhere in the Go-Ahead Group.

It may be that FK looked at the raw comparison of rates for services tendered? Who knows. What we know is that Go Ahead did have an expectation in recruiting some drivers from FK (not an unreasonable assumption) but had unestimated the loyalty of staff and the ingenuity in FK management in registering work and obtaining work to replace what was lost.

As @richw points out, the depot at Bodmin lost a fair chunk of its work with the 55, 95/96 being lost on tender. In spite of that, the depot has prospered with more schools and college work and a healthy coach operation so rather than losing staff, they've retained them. Personally, I was quite pleased as I like that little outpost so happy to see it survive. Same with Summercourt which lost a fair chunk of work but again, some selective registrations and winning new work meant that drivers have been retained.

I'd not seen the CBW article but that is an interesting view and clearly at odds with Go Ahead operations such as North East, North West and South Coast (e.g. More, Bluestar, etc). It's even more bizarre when you consider that Plymouth has had the various Flash liveries and Spark. Mind you, they have ploughed their own furrow, dispensing with Stenning's efforts. Either that or perhaps it's more a reflection that they are paid to provide a service to certain standards and no more? Does the revenue risk sit with the council?

There seems to be a few lately with this opinion on enthusiast groups on Facebook, don’t know the backgrounds of such commenters, but there is an opinion with the anti-Stenning brigade that buses should get people from a to b, and not be promoted as leisure products and not be marketed.
Personally I find Stennings work to be a great advert for modern buses and the more people we can attract the better for the business and bus travel as a whole, whilst in theory saving tax payer money as you develop a business that doesn’t Rely on tax payer subsidy.
It seems to be lesser known that Stenning does a lot of the publicity artwork as well as then bus liveries

For some reason, Ray Stenning and Best Impressions gets a terrible rap from certain quarters. We've gone over this in various threads over the years so no wish to canter over old ground but we have First South West doing some innovative stuff in terms of marketing. We know that you can't market rubbish; the product has to be good and reliable etc but that's a ground level minimum requirement. What FSW are doing is to both improve that (via better fleet) and innovative products with a focus on marketing and I cannot understand why folks would find that objectionable.

There's the criticism of strong similarities between the imagery etc between East Yorkshire and First Kernow Coasters..... well, apart from 3 dozen veg, who's going to notice. Not the average person on the street.

ps Best Impressions do a lot more than mere liveries. Yes they do a full marketing package but they will also support the design of new vehicles and the refurbs of others in terms of seat fabrics, laminates, floors, etc. Depends how much of the Stenning service you want to buy!!

 

[fgwrich]

ps Best Impressions do a lot more than mere liveries. Yes they do a full marketing package but they will also support the design of new vehicles and the refurbs of others in terms of seat fabrics, laminates, floors, etc. Depends how much of the Stenning service you want to buy!!

I think the best example of this has to be the success story that was London Midland, with Best Impressions doing everything from the livery, to the interior, to the full scale branding of the TOC.

I don't mind the work of Mr Stenning and his team at all - he has bought us some absolutely excellent bus liveries and schemes including the FK, Southern Vectis and Kings City (now sadly lost under Stagecoach's rebranding), my only qualms with some of his work is that some can feel a little "template" ish (Eg, East Yorkshire's new scheme feels a little like a northern Brighton & Hove with the same swishes, curves and almost colours). The imagery though I feel is an excellent touch to each livery. Regardless of how we feel though, it is exactly as you say, apart from 3 dozen veg, who's going to notice?

 

[richw]

my only qualms with some of his work is that some can feel a little "template" ish (Eg, East Yorkshire's new scheme feels a little like a northern Brighton & Hove with the same swishes, curves and almost colours).

It will be what the customers request though. Both of those being go ahead they may well wanted similarities,

ps Best Impressions do a lot more than mere liveries. Yes they do a full marketing package but they will also support the design of new vehicles and the refurbs of others in terms of seat fabrics,

I believe he did the Kernow interiors and seat fabric design, as well as flyers, stop publicity and much more.

The imagery though I feel is an excellent touch to each livery. Regardless of how we feel though, it is exactly as you say, apart from 3 dozen veg, who's going to notice?

The vast majority of passengers in Cornwall aren’t going to know if it was a similar style to someone else, just the positive impressions from the smart looking buses here.

 

[carlberry]

I think the best example of this has to be the success story that was London Midland, with Best Impressions doing everything from the livery, to the interior, to the full scale branding of the TOC.

I don't mind the work of Mr Stenning and his team at all - he has bought us some absolutely excellent bus liveries and schemes including the FK, Southern Vectis and Kings City (now sadly lost under Stagecoach's rebranding), my only qualms with some of his work is that some can feel a little "template" ish (Eg, East Yorkshire's new scheme feels a little like a northern Brighton & Hove with the same swishes, curves and almost colours). The imagery though I feel is an excellent touch to each livery. Regardless of how we feel though, it is exactly as you say, apart from 3 dozen veg, who's going to notice?

The template idea really is an example of if it isn't broken why fix it. People dont complain if an Apple or Rolls Royce product follows the same style as previous ones, they mostly expect it. People go to Best Impressions because they're good at what they do and can provide a complete package, I cant imagine any operator specifing that their locally applied livery must be unique (obviously this would be needed at a national level), however they would specify that it tries to sell their local area, or their history or improve their image by making it more friendly, approachable etc. And buses, by their design, lend themselves to very few 'themes', it mostly breaks down to an image that magnifies the boxy nature of the vehicle or one that tries to hide it.

 

[83G/84D]

Gemini 37155 seen at Volvo at Victoria today along with an unidentified Truronian coach.

 

[CornwallBus]

Gemini 37155 seen at Volvo at Victoria today along with an unidentified Truronian coach.

20805 is over there

 

[cnjb8]

I thought that was what was said.

Quality in this instance is not the actual quality experienced by the passenger but satisfying the myriad of bizarre, extensive requirements of the tendering authority!

Open or closed top isn't the issue. It's that they've had two vehicles damaged by overhanging branches in recent months and North Somerset Council are not doing as they should an either sorting it out, or permitting First to sort it out.

Don't know what they are like underneath but up top, there ain't much to choose between 2003 deckers of either type. Suspect that BoS would prefer some newer Geminis - FWoE has some B7TLs (54/55/07 plates) but as I said, they could just as easily come from West Yorkshire or wherever.

Oh I wasn't aware they were having issues with deckers on the 20

 

[83G/84D]

20805 is over there

Thanks for the information.

 

[Goldfish62]

There seems to be a few lately with this opinion on enthusiast groups on Facebook, don’t know the backgrounds of such commenters, but there is an opinion with the anti-Stenning brigade that buses should get people from a to b, and not be promoted as leisure products and not be marketed.
Personally I find Stennings work to be a great advert for modern buses and the more people we can attract the better for the business and bus travel as a whole, whilst in theory saving tax payer money as you develop a business that doesn’t Rely on tax payer subsidy.
It seems to be lesser known that Stenning does a lot of the publicity artwork as well as then bus liveries

Yes, these armchair experts completely miss the point that existing passengers, even if they bring in sufficient revenue, are not a captive audience and you continually need to attract new passengers, not just those who have no option but to use the bus.

I just get so annoyed with these people who say passengers don't care what turns up as long as it's on time so don't bother with making effort on marketing or presentation. They're completely missing the bigger picture. That's quite apart from the fact that running filthy wrecks around the place is actually treating your existing passengers with contempt, let alone anyone who might use the bus in future.

 

[Accelerator59]

Would I right in saying that 44934 has left BoS and is now with Claribels in Birmingham (I think)?

 

[richw]

Would I right in saying that 44934 has left BoS and is now with Claribels in Birmingham (I think)?

There’s photos of if with Claribels dating back to 2017 on Flickr!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, these armchair experts completely miss the point that existing passengers, even if they bring in sufficient revenue, are not a captive audience and you continually need to attract new passengers, not just those who have no option but to use the bus.

I just get so annoyed with these people who say passengers don't care what turns up as long as it's on time so don't bother with making effort on marketing or presentation. They're completely missing the bigger picture. That's quite apart from the fact that running filthy wrecks around the place is actually treating your existing passengers with contempt, let alone anyone who might use the bus in future.

I mean, most of us are armchair experts or interested amateurs. However, having a vehicle travelling when and where it should is the absolute minimum that a company should provide. However, there's a reason why Cadbury's don't just produce chocolate in a plain wrapper with "Chocolate" stamped on it!

 

[swifty]

Would I right in saying that 44934 has left BoS and is now with Claribels in Birmingham (I think)?

It returned off lease at some point between July and October 2017.

 

[83G/84D]

E200MMC 44954 was seen leaving Camborne in company with Solo 53504 this morning.

 

[Lizard1324]

Saw an image on Facebook (link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/244575429618709/permalink/926454558097456/ )
Which shows the tango gemini repainted into a dark and light green (image isn't mineis but is David's, so full credit to him)
Is shows a very dark green presumably for a new livery / advert?

 

[Goldfish62]

Sore an image on Facebook (link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/244575429618709/permalink/926454558097456/ )
Which shows the tango gemini repainted into a dark and light green (image isn't mineis but is David's, so full credit to him)
Is shows a very dark green presumably for a new livery / advert?
View attachment 91783

I'm guessing Cornwall Daytripper. It appears to be the same shade as Dartmoor Explorer.

 

[swifty]

Sore an image on Facebook (link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/244575429618709/permalink/926454558097456/ )
Which shows the tango gemini repainted into a dark and light green (image isn't mineis but is David's, so full credit to him)
Is shows a very dark green presumably for a new livery / advert?

Do you mean Zest? I though you meant the orange/green Gemini had been painted again until I clocked the reg. Looks like the darker Truronian/GWR green though, could be an advert for them?

 

[richw]

I'm guessing Cornwall Daytripper. It appears to be the same shade as Dartmoor Explorer.

Looks close, similar to the dark green Truronian and GWR too it appears

20808 has been re-registered from YN62GYR to an as yet unknown registration.

260ERY is now showing as attached to a 2012 Volvo. As the only 2012 Volvo on the FSW fleet , it’ll be my guess.

 

[Blackpudding]

260ERY is now showing as attached to a 2012 Volvo. As the only 2012 Volvo on the FSW fleet , it’ll be my guess.

Thanks Richard

 

[83G/84D]

30878 & 30879 both seen today and still carry registrations L10/11 PCV.

 

[richw]

30878 & 30879 both seen today and still carry registrations L10/11 PCV.

32015 still carries it private plate but is parked up in bodmin. Bodmin has no decker workings until the colleges return so presumably just parked there spare at present.
5 x coaches and a lizard Optare working out of Bodmin this week.

 

[MarkC]

Have the results for the Callywith college etc tender been announced yet?

 

[TechDan2002]

Noticed on a fellow enthusiasts Twitter feed ALX400 Trident 33377 is now carrying its original registration plate of LK53 EYW having previously carried XFF 283. Further investigation on the Government’s check MOT status site showed 33377-33382 were all registered back to their original LK53 plates on 24th February.