First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[teggers419]

That will be about right, he thinks it started around the weekend before Easter. Wasn’t covid rules relaxed on 29th March, which would fit in with that.

Thanks mate as always appreciated

 

[RELL6L]

I think this is an interesting quandary for Cornwall council. I am sure their contract with Go Ahead gives them the right, perhaps within limits, to amend the timetable of a tendered service. The 34 to Lizard will need to be retained for the morning peak service and in the evening when the L1 does not operate, and of course all day to Redruth. This gives issues for passengers who might go from Mullion to Helston, say, with one operator and return with the other, given the lack of inter-available return tickets or a day ticket covering both. During the bulk of the day the routes duplicate in most places apart from Ruan Minor. Here the L1 does not go to the village centre and only operates in one direction. So does Cornwall stick with a partial service during the day on the 34? Surely to keep a full hourly 34 is a waste of resources, but to withdraw it altogether would inconvenience Ruan Minor. If they keep the full service do First Kernow have a right to object to a subsidised service competing with the whole of their L1? Their case here would be stronger if the L1 fully included Ruan Minor, even though that isn’t the main target market. Interesting!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think this is an interesting quandary for Cornwall council. I am sure their contract with Go Ahead gives them the right, perhaps within limits, to amend the timetable of a tendered service. The 34 to Lizard will need to be retained for the morning peak service and in the evening when the L1 does not operate, and of course all day to Redruth. This gives issues for passengers who might go from Mullion to Helston, say, with one operator and return with the other, given the lack of inter-available return tickets or a day ticket covering both. During the bulk of the day the routes duplicate in most places apart from Ruan Minor. Here the L1 does not go to the village centre and only operates in one direction. So does Cornwall stick with a partial service during the day on the 34? Surely to keep a full hourly 34 is a waste of resources, but to withdraw it altogether would inconvenience Ruan Minor. If they keep the full service do First Kernow have a right to object to a subsidised service competing with the whole of their L1? Their case here would be stronger if the L1 fully included Ruan Minor, even though that isn’t the main target market. Interesting!

I'm really not seeing why people are thinking that the 34 is likely to be cancelled. Look at the facts...

The L1 is clearly a tourist service. Remember this posted a few days ago...

Helston has 5 legs all connecting in a hub and spoke formation - Truro, Lizard, St Ives, Penzance and Falmouth, offering visitors staying on the Lizard lots of choice for days out, and an easy connection through to the Lizard Open Top from a range of a visitor accommodation locations...

Therefore, I don't see why we would be suggesting that this is going to be an ongoing service past September.

Secondly, and it was in response to the OP (@Lizard1324 ) and it was very much that there is little saving to be had. The 34 has the morning peak so those drivers still need to be employed, as do the ones doing the evenings so they are very nearly a fixed cost. That's before you have to consider the fixed cost of the vehicle that still need to be paid for, the other fixed costs (i.e. the rent of the yard, contribution to management and admin, the contribution to central overhead) and the profit. Even the maintenance is semi-variable so its tyres and fuel where you get the saving.

And as is said, the L1 isn't a direct copy of the 34! So whilst it is perfectly possible for Cornwall Council to intervene, all of the disruption to vary a tendered service to realise a minimal saving for about four months.... it really isn't worth it.

It isn't like when First registered the evening Tinners. That was a clear duplication and on an ongoing basis.

 

[Lizard1324]

I think this is an interesting quandary for Cornwall council. I am sure their contract with Go Ahead gives them the right, perhaps within limits, to amend the timetable of a tendered service. The 34 to Lizard will need to be retained for the morning peak service and in the evening when the L1 does not operate, and of course all day to Redruth. This gives issues for passengers who might go from Mullion to Helston, say, with one operator and return with the other, given the lack of inter-available return tickets or a day ticket covering both. During the bulk of the day the routes duplicate in most places apart from Ruan Minor. Here the L1 does not go to the village centre and only operates in one direction. So does Cornwall stick with a partial service during the day on the 34? Surely to keep a full hourly 34 is a waste of resources, but to withdraw it altogether would inconvenience Ruan Minor. If they keep the full service do First Kernow have a right to object to a subsidised service competing with the whole of their L1? Their case here would be stronger if the L1 fully included Ruan Minor, even though that isn’t the main target market. Interesting!

I think you will find that First actually will provide the first bus service in the morning. TfC start at 9:45 with First Kernow leaving slightly before.
There are 2 first buses running a college service and a TfC bus running the 34 at 7:15, but I've seen people being prevented from boarding the 34 as I think it's a college service. Pre-covid the 251 and 230 were full of locals going to Truro / Penzance but now this is no longer allowed.

My opinion of the Ruan altercation is that it should be like the old L1. This went to Ruan on time with it going Lizard then rRuen in the morning, then Ruan to Lizard in the afternoon.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think you will find that first actually will provide the first bus service in the morning as Tfc start at 9:45 with first kernow leaving slightly before.
There is 2 first buses running a college service and a tfc bus running the 34 at 7:15 but I've seen people being rejected to enter the 34 as I think it's a college service, pre covid the 251 and 230 were full of locals going to Truro/ penzance but now this is no longer allowed.

My opinion of the ruen altercation is that it should be like the old L1, this went to ruen on time with it going lizard then ruen in the morning then ruen to lizard in the afternoon.

If you look at the 34 timetable on the TfC website it's somewhat different to what you seem to think it is!

 

[RELL6L]

I think you will find that first actually will provide the first bus service in the morning as Tfc start at 9:45 with first kernow leaving slightly before.
There is 2 first buses running a college service and a tfc bus running the 34 at 7:15 but I've seen people being rejected to enter the 34 as I think it's a college service, pre covid the 251 and 230 were full of locals going to Truro/ penzance but now this is no longer allowed.

My opinion of the ruen altercation is that it should be like the old L1, this went to ruen on time with it going lizard then ruen in the morning then ruen to lizard in the afternoon.

The first 34 leaves Lizard at 7.13, then 8.45 and hourly. L1 is 9.44 then hourly. The L1 gets to Helston Seven Stars 20 minutes before the 34.

I take The Grand Wazoo's point that the L1 is not a direct copy of the 34 and has a different target market and I hate to disagree with him. However the L1 could compete - and probably will in practice - at least during the hours that it operates. With a minor route tweak at Ruan Minor it could duplicate the 34 more comprehensively and attempt to obtain the local flows which would largely complement the tourist ones. And if it did this it would set Cornwall Council a challenge. The TfC contract must have provisions to reduce tendered routes where needed, and this would only be a reduction of two vehicles (out of four) on the 34 during certain periods. I am sure the buses and drivers would not stand idle, they have other routes they can use them on. If FK wanted to pick a fight with the council then they could cover the 34 more comprehensively and challenge the council if the 34 was not withdrawn at these times. Then proceed to the 56.... But I quite understand if they don't want to pick a fight!

 

[richw]

There is 2 first buses running a college service and a tfc bus running the 34 at 7:15 but I've seen people being rejected to enter the 34 as I think it's a college service,

Neither are advertised as student only. Student only is highlighted in dark green on the timetable

 

[TechDan2002]

pre covid the 251 and 230 were full of locals going to Truro/ penzance but now this is no longer allowed.

As far as I’m aware as a student at Truro College they’re still open to the public albeit non student travel unpopular and discouraged due to no requirement for social distancing. Perhaps @On the Buses would be able to clarify?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The first 34 leaves Lizard at 7.13, then 8.45 and hourly. L1 is 9.44 then hourly. The L1 gets to Helston Seven Stars 20 minutes before the 34.

I take The Grand Wazoo's point that the L1 is not a direct copy of the 34 and has a different target market and I hate to disagree with him. However the L1 could compete - and probably will in practice - at least during the hours that it operates. With a minor route tweak at Ruan Minor it could duplicate the 34 more comprehensively and attempt to obtain the local flows which would largely complement the tourist ones. And if it did this it would set Cornwall Council a challenge. The TfC contract must have provisions to reduce tendered routes where needed, and this would only be a reduction of two vehicles (out of four) on the 34 during certain periods. I am sure the buses and drivers would not stand idle, they have other routes they can use them on. If FK wanted to pick a fight with the council then they could cover the 34 more comprehensively and challenge the council if the 34 was not withdrawn at these times. Then proceed to the 56.... But I quite understand if they don't want to pick a fight!

Discussions of interest is what the forum is for

The L1 will undoubtedly take some people who would otherwise have had to take the 34. That much is true. However, whilst the L1 could be "tweaked" as you say, @On the Buses has already said that the routeing and timing of the L1 has been done specifically and carefully to enable the 5 way interchange at Helston, providing sufficient recovery time on the service to enable that.

Undoubtedly, the Cornwall Council contracts will have some ability to be modified in the light of any commercial registration; again, that will have happened with the registration of the evening Tinners by FK. My contention is that whilst CC could suggest that Go Ahead find work for two vehicles during the middle of the day for four months, is that realistically going to happen?

Now, were FK going to duplicate the 34 or the 56 all year round, and covering more of the route and duplicating the tenders, then that's a different question. The council is legally obliged not to support services that are copies of commercial registrations, hence why a number of tenders (the Tinners, M6, etc) were amended. However, that isn't what FK are doing as they are targeting a specific, day-tripping, higher-margin market and doing so whilst minimising their financial exposure.

 

[Busgeek]

I wonder if On The Buses could tell us if there is any idea on ticket pricing this year? I mean all these routes. Lots to use. I'm wondering how much tickets will be on them? I saw a Day tripper today and it quotes "Low Cost Travel" last time I was on a bus it cost a lot!

Also, with the news of the U4 going in lizard colours, any ideas on what fleet will be stationed for this? Any E400 going reptilian or not?

 

[Goldfish62]

I wonder if On The Buses could tell us if there is any idea on ticket pricing this year? I mean all these routes. Lots to use. I'm wondering how much tickets will be on them? I saw a Day tripper today and it quotes "Low Cost Travel" last time I was on a bus it cost a lot!

Given that they start in 12 days time I'm sure we'll find out on the website very soon!

 

[Busaholic]

One of the Mousehole liveried buses back on the M6 today.

 

[Goldfish62]

One of the Mousehole liveried buses back on the M6 today.

Yes, that turned up during last week. In fact one day there were two of them on the M6. Big occasion!

 

[83G/84D]

Trident 33172 was towed into Camborne today by a Cornwall Commercials recovery truck.

 

[Busaholic]

In fact one day there were two of them on the M6. Big occasion!

A pink letter day.

 

[Lizard1324]

Does anyone know will 53801 - YK04 KWR be painted into Mousehole colours or will it be retired soon.

 

[Goldfish62]

Does anyone know will 53801 - YK04 KWR be painted into Mousehole colours or will it be retired soon.

@OntheBuses mentioned recently that it'll be in the repaint programme in due course. He didn't state the livery.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

@OntheBuses mentioned recently that it'll be in the repaint programme in due course. He didn't state the livery.

I guess it needs doing and with considerations on new vehicle investment in these straitened times or lead times on new vehicles, it makes sense in whatever livery it gets.

It may seem "mature" and indeed it is but I did see Go South Coast (in Wiltshire) using an X reg in all day service so it's positively young!

 

[Goldfish62]

I guess it needs doing and with considerations on new vehicle investment in these straitened times or lead times on new vehicles, it makes sense in whatever livery it gets.

It may seem "mature" and indeed it is but I did see Go South Coast (in Wiltshire) using an X reg in all day service so it's positively young!

Yes, it's been looking rough for a few years and is the last of the permanent fleet in Barbie livery. Amazing how long some Solos last. Must be something good about them!

First are not buying any new diesel buses after next year, so I guess the mini Solos could soldier on for some time yet.

 

[richw]

It may seem "mature" and indeed it is but I did see Go South Coast (in Wiltshire) using an X reg in all day service so it's positively young!

Not forgetting Kernow are using W-reg ALX400 at present. Not sure if they’re seeing much service other than colleges though

 

[83G/84D]

One of the Mousehole liveried buses back on the M6 today.

The other two Mousehole Solo's are in Camborne, one was outside and one in an engineering bay.

Not forgetting Kernow are using W-reg ALX400 at present. Not sure if they’re seeing much service other than colleges though

The old training examples do work the T1 & T2 but this is by no means a regular occurence.

 

[richw]

The other two mousehole Solo's are in Camborne, one was outside and one in an engineering bay.



The old training examples do work the T1 & T2 but this is by no means a regular occurance.

32015 seems to do full days on 87/91 circuit too

 

[Busaholic]

Does anyone know will 53801 - YK04 KWR be painted into Mousehole colours or will it be retired soon.

04 reg? A mere stripling, and very 21st Century.

 

[gka472l]

Can anyone advise the best chance to catch a few of the hired former Arriva London B7TL's please (32121-32129)? I'm planning to catch the afternoon departures at Truro College one afternoon, but I'm unsure if these buses see use on these services. They don't seem to track and there are not many pics on Flickr from what I can see. Thanks in advance

 

[richw]

Can anyone advise the best chance to catch a few of the hired former Arriva London B7TL's please (32121-32129)?? Planning to catch the afternoon departures at Truro College one afternoon, but unsure if these see use on these as they don't seem to track and not many pics on Flickr from what I can see. Thanks in advance

Generally limited to school runs, a few of them based at Helston, couple more do Poltair school.
Every now and again they appear elsewhere

 

[83G/84D]

Can anyone advise the best chance to catch a few of the hired former Arriva London B7TL's please (32121-32129)? I'm planning to catch the afternoon departures at Truro College one afternoon, but I'm unsure if these buses see use on these services. They don't seem to track and there are not many pics on Flickr from what I can see. Thanks in advance

From my observations I would say Helston is your best bet in West Cornwall, they only appear on Truro college services from time to time and are by no means regular. Saying that I don't know the workings at Helston so your best bet may be to see them from near the depot, my suggestion would be the roundabout by the filling station at Sainsburys. I am unsure which way they head out.

 

[Goldfish62]

Discussions of interest is what the forum is for

The L1 will undoubtedly take some people who would otherwise have had to take the 34. That much is true. However, whilst the L1 could be "tweaked" as you say, @On the Buses has already said that the routeing and timing of the L1 has been done specifically and carefully to enable the 5 way interchange at Helston, providing sufficient recovery time on the service to enable that.

Undoubtedly, the Cornwall Council contracts will have some ability to be modified in the light of any commercial registration; again, that will have happened with the registration of the evening Tinners by FK. My contention is that whilst CC could suggest that Go Ahead find work for two vehicles during the middle of the day for four months, is that realistically going to happen?

Now, were FK going to duplicate the 34 or the 56 all year round, and covering more of the route and duplicating the tenders, then that's a different question. The council is legally obliged not to support services that are copies of commercial registrations, hence why a number of tenders (the Tinners, M6, etc) were amended. However, that isn't what FK are doing as they are targeting a specific, day-tripping, higher-margin market and doing so whilst minimising their financial exposure.

Yes, having done this particular (very interesting) topic to death I agree with you, on one proviso. That the L1 is actually seasonal and finishes around September/ October. I say that because the A2/A3, very much tourist-orientated routes, continued (much reduced) right into the winter last year and were to be all-year if it wasn't for the third lockdown finishing them off.

I dare say the L1 will be seasonal, but based on the A2/A3 I really wouldn't like to say absolutely 100%. Chances are FSW are waiting to see how it does, and CC are looking on with one eye on the 34 and any future winter service level on the L1.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I dare say the L1 will be seasonal, but based on the A2/A3 I really wouldn't like to say absolutely 100%. Chances are FSW are waiting to see how it does, and CC are looking on with one eye on the 34 and any future winter service level on the L1.

If First Kernow operate a regular bus service to the Lizard that rivals the 34 throughout the winter, I'll eat hay with a horse! In fact, if they do operate that sort of service, I'll pay £100 to a charity of your choice.

I don't think they weren't going to run it when they lost the tender to Go Ahead (just Helston to Redruth IIRC). Why now when the post Covid circumstances are more challenging? What we have got is a fairly brave, yet calculated, attempt by FK to get the tourist pound yet done so at minimal risk with a depreciated fleet. I really wish them well but I think the Lizard network is one of the braver experiments so I'd not be drawing comparisons with the A2/A3 which is arguably a stronger market anyhow. After all, they didn't have a winter A4/A5!

 

[gka472l]

From my observations I would say Helston is your best bet in West Cornwall, they only appear on Truro college services from time to time and are by no means regular. Saying that I don't know the workings at Helston so your best bet may be to see them from near the depot, my suggestion would be the roundabout by the filling station at Sainsburys. I am unsure which way they head out.

Thank you both for the info, I'm sure I can fit a visit to Helston in when I'm having a day in West Cornwall, I've found where the outstation is via Google maps.....thanks!

 

[Peter Heath]

Dartmoor Explorer 37019 was parked in Southway layby this morning. Publicity or broken down?