First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[83G/84D]

They can't arrive quickly enough. The daily allocation seems to now include a Solo SR that can't get into the village and which isn't always kept on the off-peak car working.

My thoughts exactly. 53865 and 53504 on the route today which was not ideal.

 

[heathrowrail]

First images i've seen of the new BOS E400 livery out in service, it just looks absolutely awful! It makes Newbury & District's livery look really nice. https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbuspics/52605400139/in/feed-65528068-1672779986-1-72157721652001997/

 

[Russel]

First images i've seen of the new BOS E400 livery out in service, it just looks absolutely awful! It makes Newbury & District's livery look really nice. https://www.flickr.com/photos/swbuspics/52605400139/in/feed-65528068-1672779986-1-72157721652001997/

I don't think it looks too bad, it's simple and smart.

It's one livery that will probably look better with adverts in the advert frames as the upper deck area currently looks quite sparse.

 

[150249]

I don't think it looks too bad, it's simple and smart.

It's one livery that will probably look better with adverts in the advert frames as the upper deck area currently looks quite sparse.

You will certainly see it coming at you!

Stagecoach's new livery is like that

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I don't think it looks too bad, it's simple and smart.

It's one livery that will probably look better with adverts in the advert frames as the upper deck area currently looks quite sparse.

I'm with you. I don't think it looks "absolutely awful" - it not looking too bad is about the summit of my enthusiasm. I think it's ok - just need to get painting the number of fleet in Urban, Excel and U Lines colours.

As I always say, these things are subjective

You will certainly see it coming at you!

Stagecoach's new livery is like that

To be honest, it's not like Stagecoach. The Stagecoach one is difficult to apply, difficult to maintain, almost impossible to keep clean - it's really impractical and that's before you get into whether you like it. At least Ray Stenning understands the practicalities of bus operation.

 

[M803UYA]

You will certainly see it coming at you!

Stagecoach's new livery is like that

I managed to see a few double deckers in this new livery over the Christmas break whilst visiting Senior Management and many of them had the road dirt typical of this time of the year which this livery hides really well.
There seems to be a lot of them running around so they've either been done before use outside or Somerset is getting all the attention from the painters - which is nice to see.
The original Buses of Somerset livery is one that is hard to beat and is one of the few Ray Stenning liveries I really like - dark colours on lower panels that sweep up the rear of the vehicle, hiding most of the road dirt!

 

[83G/84D]

I'm surprised actually that these two have returned rather than being withdrawn. Is Cornwall short of buses?

I saw Tinner E400MMC 33457 today VOR (vehicle off road) and in need of extensive body repairs to front drivers side and rear near side lower deck. Bustimes.org shows it last out on a T2 on 17th December which stopped tracking near Connor Downs.
One bus that won’t be in service for quite a while.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I managed to see a few double deckers in this new livery over the Christmas break whilst visiting Senior Management and many of them had the road dirt typical of this time of the year which this livery hides really well.
There seems to be a lot of them running around so they've either been done before use outside or Somerset is getting all the attention from the painters - which is nice to see.
The original Buses of Somerset livery is one that is hard to beat and is one of the few Ray Stenning liveries I really like - dark colours on lower panels that sweep up the rear of the vehicle, hiding most of the road dirt!

They were the ones sourced from Ensign and were retrimmed/painted before being sent west.

 

[83G/84D]

37003 is being scrapped is it not?

37003 arrived at Camborne today being driven by an engineer. Wonder what the plans are for this?

 

[Accelerator59]

37003 arrived at Camborne today being driven by an engineer. Wonder what the plans are for this?

Saw it drive past me just outside Carland Cross a couple of hours or so ago.

 

[M803UYA]

They were the ones sourced from Ensign and were retrimmed/painted before being sent west.

Makes sense. They looked even nicer in the metal than the photo I'd seen on here and flickr.

 

[fgwrich]

I'm with you. I don't think it looks "absolutely awful" - it not looking too bad is about the summit of my enthusiasm. I think it's ok - just need to get painting the number of fleet in Urban, Excel and U Lines colours.

As I always say, these things are subjective

To be honest, it's not like Stagecoach. The Stagecoach one is difficult to apply, difficult to maintain, almost impossible to keep clean - it's really impractical and that's before you get into whether you like it. At least Ray Stenning understands the practicalities of bus operation.

I think one of the issues with the "Green" livery is that position of those stripes. If they carried on through the front wheel arch and began under the cab window, then it would look a little more balanced. Otherwise I agree, it's not horrendous (or difficult) like the new Stagecoach livery is (though I feel the non native vehicles like the OmniCity's and Wrightbus's carry it better), but it's just not that stand-out-able, it's very Arriva Green-Line esq.

On the subject of painting and First SouthWest, I'm a little surprised to see the likes of 37638 move down to Cornwall already - It hasn't long been painted in Bath Blue livery before it's already left!

 

[heathrowrail]

I think one of the issues with the "Green" livery is that position of those stripes. If they carried on through the front wheel arch and began under the cab window, then it would look a little more balanced. Otherwise I agree, it's not horrendous (or difficult) like the new Stagecoach livery is (though I feel the non native vehicles like the OmniCity's and Wrightbus's carry it better), but it's just not that stand-out-able, it's very Arriva Green-Line esq.

On the subject of painting and First SouthWest, I'm a little surprised to see the likes of 37638 move down to Cornwall already - It hasn't long been painted in Bath Blue livery before it's already left!

That's First! They repainted a load of buses in Bristol into Citylines and less than 8 months later they moved to Wessex.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think one of the issues with the "Green" livery is that position of those stripes. If they carried on through the front wheel arch and began under the cab window, then it would look a little more balanced. Otherwise I agree, it's not horrendous (or difficult) like the new Stagecoach livery is (though I feel the non native vehicles like the OmniCity's and Wrightbus's carry it better), but it's just not that stand-out-able, it's very Arriva Green-Line esq.

I guess on the latter part of that... those of us with an interest will obviously clock that it's a bit similar to Green Line but the average punter in Taunton won't, in much the same way that they didn't think the previous livery looked a bit Southern Vectis/Norwich P&R-esque

As for the stripes, I don't really find it unbalanced. I suppose it's a practical thing to avoid faffing around the wheel arch and indicator.

On the subject of painting and First SouthWest, I'm a little surprised to see the likes of 37638 move down to Cornwall already - It hasn't long been painted in Bath Blue livery before it's already left!

Yeah, it was a bit odd in dragging them down, repainting them all and now two have shuffled off down to Cornwall.

That's First! They repainted a load of buses in Bristol into Citylines and less than 8 months later they moved to Wessex.

As I said earlier, those were painted ahead of Covid and were based on routes with higher PVRs. Covid came and First had spare B9s from frequency cuts. Suppose it made sense to send those ones out of area (ahead of others in Urban), rather than retain them in Bristol (and confuse punters).

 

[Goldfish62]

I guess on the latter part of that... those of us with an interest will obviously clock that it's a bit similar to Green Line but the average punter in Taunton won't, in much the same way that they didn't think the previous livery looked a bit Southern Vectis/Norwich P&R-esque

Certainly the (old) Green Line look to me. The current incarnations from Reading Buses and Arriva are completely different.

I think the "Green" livery is OK, but just unremarkable.

Yeah, it was a bit odd in dragging them down, repainting them all and now two have shuffled off down to Cornwall.

And I don't see any point in repainting them and other recent arrivals in Cornwall until someone decides what's happening with branding.

With a handful of exceptions repaints over the past year have received no vinyls (which has really spoiled the impact of the B9s on the LAND) and as such repainting an anonymous blue bus into anonymous green seems pointless unless the paintwork is sufficiently scruffy. Oh and until the current allocation anarchy is overcome!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think the "Green" livery is OK, but just unremarkable.

Yeah, that's my view. I don't find it hideous or objectionable - it's just fine...

And I don't see any point in repainting them and other recent arrivals in Cornwall until someone decides what's happening with branding.

With a handful of exceptions repaints over the past year have received no vinyls (which has really spoiled the impact of the B9s on the LAND) and as such repainting an anonymous blue bus into anonymous green seems pointless unless the paintwork is sufficiently scruffy. Oh and until the current allocation anarchy is overcome!

The B9s came from Aberdeen and got repainted but none of them have received vinyls anyway!

We've discussed this before - perhaps a few too many brands (e.g. Unique, Tin Coaster, DayTripper). Obviously, quite a few vehicles have been running around without vinyls (a few B9 O/Ts, e500s?) and then there's a number of blow-ins in various schemes too. Perhaps needs a bit of attention.

 

[Goldfish62]

We've discussed this before - perhaps a few too many brands (e.g. Unique, Tin Coaster, DayTripper). Obviously, quite a few vehicles have been running around without vinyls (a few B9 O/Ts, e500s?) and then there's a number of blow-ins in various schemes too. Perhaps needs a bit of attention.

Only two open top B9s have received vinyls, although I think all bar one of the E500s have now. There's around 20 repainted buses without vinyls at the moment, plus of course the superceded U lines brand where just three buses have received Coast to Coast vinyls.

Completely agree though. Needs a tidy up. It's not looking as professional as it could at the moment, although of course the fleet looks considerably better than it did 10 years ago.

I guess any decisions await the new commercial director.

 

[fgwrich]

That's First! They repainted a load of buses in Bristol into Citylines and less than 8 months later they moved to Wessex.

Yeah, it was a bit odd in dragging them down, repainting them all and now two have shuffled off down to Cornwall.

It does seem to be a recent First group issue though, as HX08DHE shows - Painted into the new Wessex Green livery in summer 2021, only to transfer it to Solent in late 2022. Was anything internally done to the former Platinum vehicles at Bath, as they had Platinum stitched into the headrests? The race to remove certain vehicles does seem to have lead to a raft of transfers around the country despite repaints and rebrands for their chosen areas.

First Solent 37583 (HX08 DHE)

Explore daniel.bishop28's 34829 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

Only two open top B9s have received vinyls, although I think all bar one of the E500s have now. There's around 20 repainted buses without vinyls at the moment, plus of course the superceded U lines brand where just three buses have received Coast to Coast vinyls.

Completely agree though. Needs a tidy up. It's not looking as professional as it could at the moment, although of course the fleet looks considerably better than it did 10 years ago.

I guess any decisions await the new commercial director.

I have to agree, as I've said previously I think there's just too many brands and variations now. Just stick to the two tone triangular based liveries and vary it from that - and perhaps confine brands such as Day Tripper, UniQue and maybe Tin Coaster & Coast to Coast (confusing when the routes are still operated as U - I also found the U Lines brand to be quite clever) to the bin. I'm still not entirely keen of the splitting of Atlantic Coaster into the three Atlantic Coaster / Lands End Coaster / Tin Coaster brands to be honest.

 

[Marcus Fryer]

Was anything internally done to the former Platinum vehicles at Bath, as they had Platinum stitched into the headrests?

At least some, if not all, are still running around with the original Platinum seating (and very comfortable it is too).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It does seem to be a recent First group issue though, as HX08DHE shows - Painted into the new Wessex Green livery in summer 2021, only to transfer it to Solent in late 2022. Was anything internally done to the former Platinum vehicles at Bath, as they had Platinum stitched into the headrests? The race to remove certain vehicles does seem to have lead to a raft of transfers around the country despite repaints and rebrands for their chosen areas.

To corroborate @Marcus Fryer, can confirm that they weren't retrimmed so Platinum lives in Midsomer Norton and Foxhill!

The issue of repaints will happen when you don't have a corporate scheme and then have some (perhaps) unforeseen changes. After all, they have recently repainted a number of Southampton vehicles

I have to agree, as I've said previously I think there's just too many brands and variations now. Just stick to the two tone triangular based liveries and vary it from that - and perhaps confine brands such as Day Tripper, UniQue and maybe Tin Coaster & Coast to Coast (confusing when the routes are still operated as U - I also found the U Lines brand to be quite clever) to the bin. I'm still not entirely keen of the splitting of Atlantic Coaster into the three Atlantic Coaster / Lands End Coaster / Tin Coaster brands to be honest.

DayTripper seems dead in the water to a large extent, and Unique always seemed a bit superfluous. The problem, IMHO, is when you don't really have a critical mass of vehicles such as Tin Coaster. Unless you have a dedicated allocation, such as Mousehole or Falmouth Coaster, then it becomes a challenge to manage.

For the Coasters in Cornwall, have 32179 in Falmouth, and number in Lands End (LEC) and Atlantic (AC) variants, and then perhaps a few in some sort of neutral scheme? Not dealer white but something promotional that can be used across the various routes.

 

[Goldfish62]

DayTripper seems dead in the water to a large extent, and Unique always seemed a bit superfluous. The problem, IMHO, is when you don't really have a critical mass of vehicles such as Tin Coaster. Unless you have a dedicated allocation, such as Mousehole or Falmouth Coaster, then it becomes a challenge to manage.

For the Coasters in Cornwall, have 32179 in Falmouth, and number in Lands End (LEC) and Atlantic (AC) variants, and then perhaps a few in some sort of neutral scheme? Not dealer white but something promotional that can be used across the various routes.

Agreed re Daytripper and Unique. Lizard is surely also superfluous given that the L3, L5 and U4 don't even reach the Lizard peninsula. I note, incidentally, that recent repaints into unbranded Lizard colours have retained advert frames, making the usual branding style if it's even applied in the future somewhat problematic.

I also question Tin Coaster. Nice idea, but not one bus has ever appeared bearing the branding and the route has reverted to closed top for the winter anyway.

My idea for the open top routes would be to have an overall Cornwall Coasters brand with the sub brands for each route on publicity and the destination displays. If you were to have separate LAND and ATLA brands plus a few neutral buses they'd still get mixed up.

On other routes, I'm surprised that despite four buses being branded for Dartmoor Explorer it's rare that more than one (of the winter 2 PVR) is a branded bus. That may however be symptomatic of the age and reliability of the vehicles. Many of the Cornwall Geminis are at least as old as the President Tridents were when they were withdrawn and need to go for scrap.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Lizard is surely also superfluous given that the L3, L5 and U4 don't even reach the Lizard peninsula.

That is being a bit literal - FSW clearly regard Helston as the gateway to Lizard.

I also question Tin Coaster. Nice idea, but not one bus has ever appeared bearing the branding and the route has reverted to closed top for the winter anyway.

Also, the TINC interworks with the 19 - hence why a neutral livery was in my thinking.

On other routes, I'm surprised that despite four buses being branded for Dartmoor Explorer it's rare that more than one (of the winter 2 PVR) is a branded bus. That may however be symptomatic of the age and reliability of the vehicles. Many of the Cornwall Geminis are at least as old as the President Tridents were when they were withdrawn and need to go for scrap.

I would anticipate that many of the B7TLs are on borrowed time. First has been busy withdrawing them so expect plenty of B9s to arrive to begin thinning out the ranks.

 

[GBM]

I also question Tin Coaster. Nice idea, but not one bus has ever appeared bearing the branding and the route has reverted to closed top for the winter anyway.

Two open tops seen this morning at Landsend - so not all closed tops.

 

[Goldfish62]

Two open tops seen this morning at Landsend - so not all closed tops.

The Tin Coaster doesn't go to Land's End.

 

[henairs]

Agreed re Daytripper and Unique. Lizard is surely also superfluous given that the L3, L5 and U4 don't even reach the Lizard peninsula. I note, incidentally, that recent repaints into unbranded Lizard colours have retained advert frames, making the usual branding style if it's even applied in the future somewhat problematic.

I also question Tin Coaster. Nice idea, but not one bus has ever appeared bearing the branding and the route has reverted to closed top for the winter anyway.

My idea for the open top routes would be to have an overall Cornwall Coasters brand with the sub brands for each route on publicity and the destination displays. If you were to have separate LAND and ATLA brands plus a few neutral buses they'd still get mixed up.

On other routes, I'm surprised that despite four buses being branded for Dartmoor Explorer it's rare that more than one (of the winter 2 PVR) is a branded bus. That may however be symptomatic of the age and reliability of the vehicles. Many of the Cornwall Geminis are at least as old as the President Tridents were when they were withdrawn and need to go for scrap.

37019 was at Taunton depot yesterday afternoon for usual check over so that’s 1 accounted for.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

37019 was at Taunton depot yesterday afternoon for usual check over so that’s 1 accounted for.

Think that was the one that broke down on Monday so probably in for repair

 

[Goldfish62]

That is being a bit literal - FSW clearly regard Helston as the gateway to Lizard.

It's a bit wasted given the branded buses can be found spread all over Cornwall!

I would anticipate that many of the B7TLs are on borrowed time. First has been busy withdrawing them so expect plenty of B9s to arrive to begin thinning out the ranks.

Agreed, although I anticipate they'll be only 2-3 years newer than the B7s they replace.

Notwithstanding the 2016+ intake, the earliest of which are approaching mid-life, Kernow really could do with some decent midlife cascades (as per the 12- plate E400s arriving at BoS) which wouldn't need replacing after 2-3 years, otherwise it's in danger of reverting to being First's dumping ground where worn out vehicles go to die.

 

[Andyh82]

Considering the long list of buses, particularly in Somerset that are still in 'First West of England' liveries, I doubt we will ever get to the stage where they are repainting buses out of Kernow liveries that some here may think are surplus

Branding the ones they do have, and repainting all the WoE liveried buses should be the priority

Plus better allocations on the ground day to day

 

[Goldfish62]

Considering the long list of buses, particularly in Somerset that are still in 'First West of England' liveries, I doubt we will ever get to the stage where they are repainting buses out of Kernow liveries that some here may think are surplus

Branding the ones they do have, and repainting all the WoE liveried buses should be the priority

Plus better allocations on the ground day to day

Absolutely, all combined with a rationalisation of brands if allocation is a fundamental issue (which I think it is given the way buses rotate between depots/workings to ensure they're back at the right place for PMIs (preventative maintenence inspections) etc).

 

[richw]

37019 was at Taunton depot yesterday afternoon for usual check over so that’s 1 accounted for.

37173 broke down on Tuesday morning in Plymouth and was taken to Summercourt for repair. It hasn’t been returned to us as yet.

37155 had been off the road over Christmas with a fault and was repaired and returned to us on Wednesday morning. It’s now running great again, However it has been needed for its tachograph on another duty this week due to shortage of serviceable tachograph fitted vehicles.
Dartmoor is a domestic route so doesn’t require a tachograph fitted vehicle.