First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Goldfish62]

They did a 7.1m SR, I suspect they’d fit?

Stopped being offered a good few years ago. I was told the reason why, but have forgotten.

In any case it was stated at the time that the route test failed due to grounding, so 80cm off the length, but the same rear overhang wouldn't have made any difference. The Solo SR has noticeably less ground clearance at the rear than the original Solo.

 

[richw]

Stopped being offered a good few years ago. I was told the reason why, but have forgotten.

In any case it was stated at the time that the route test failed due to grounding, so 80cm off the length, but the same rear overhang wouldn't have made any difference. The Solo SR has noticeably less ground clearance at the rear than the original Solo.

The alleged location of grounding was leaving Alverton (?) onto the seafront before reaching Newlyn. 5386* series have covered as far as the coastguard hotel suggesting that wasn’t such an issue as previous mentioned

 

[Goldfish62]

The alleged location of grounding was leaving Alverton (?) onto the seafront before reaching Newlyn. 5386* series have covered as far as the coastguard hotel suggesting that wasn’t such an issue as previous mentioned

Ah yes, the junction of Lidden Road and New Road, where Geminis ground nearly every time they're used on the route. But that's apparently OK...

Shame that a decision was made based on one arbitrary route test. Otherwise the route would probably have had new Solo SRs a few years ago and the current complete mess would never have happened.

 

[Busaholic]

Ah yes, the junction of Lidden Road and New Road, where Geminis ground nearly every time they're used on the route. But that's apparently OK...

Shame that a decision was made based on one arbitrary route test. Otherwise the route would probably have had new Solo SRs a few years ago and the current complete mess would never have happened.

So the obvious answer round the problem would be to have two separate routes from Penzance to Mousehole with one avoiding the Alverton Estate. Oh, hang on ...

 

[Accelerator59]

I think I saw what looked like a white Enviro 200MMC (correct me if I’m wrong) that briefly parked up just past and opposite Truro railway station, possibly a 23-plate which would probably mean its a BYD given diesels are not being produced for much longer. I couldn’t get the full reg unfortunately. May have had some sort of livery on it as well. Any ideas?

 

[Goldfish62]

I think I saw what looked like a white Enviro 200MMC (correct me if I’m wrong) that briefly parked up just past and opposite Truro railway station, possibly a 23-plate which would probably mean its a BYD given diesels are not being produced for much longer. I couldn’t get the full reg unfortunately. May have had some sort of livery on it as well. Any ideas?

The E200 diesel is still very much in production with no announced end date.

If it were a BYD it would be out of charge given the complete lack of charging infrastructure for electric buses in Cornwall!

 

[Accelerator59]

The E200 diesel is still very much in production with no announced end date.

If it were a BYD it would be out of charge given the complete lack of charging infrastructure for electric buses in Cornwall!

Ah ok. It probably was a diesel in that case. Wish I wasn’t distracted by something else, then I would of saw it sooner.

 

[richw]

I think I saw what looked like a white Enviro 200MMC (correct me if I’m wrong) that briefly parked up just past and opposite Truro railway station, possibly a 23-plate which would probably mean its a BYD given diesels are not being produced for much longer. I couldn’t get the full reg unfortunately. May have had some sort of livery on it as well. Any ideas?

Rail replacement starts today.

There are many out of area vehicles down for it. So far vehicles from as far away as Newbury and the Midlands have been seen route learning.

 

[MasterSpenny]

Surely FSW will now place an order for new Solos given production has restarted. The Stagecoach order is for 60 slimline versions, so you'd think they could also probably still build some puddle jumpers for Mousehole.

I don’t think they can, unless they are part of a contract, given that First Group stepped away from diesel bus orders according the below:

FirstGroup named as one of the world’s cleanest 200 companies

FirstGroup plc, a leading

www.firstgroupplc.com

FirstGroup’s bus and rail services play a vital role in combating climate change and improving air quality. First Bus no longer purchases new diesel buses and is committed to achieving a zero-emission bus fleet by 2035. As part of this commitment, and with the help from the Government’s Zero Emission Bus Regional Area (ZEBRA) funding, in 2022 First Bus placed one of the UK’s largest ever electric vehicle orders with UK manufacturer Wrightbus, securing a further 193 electric buses to be allocated between different cities across the UK.

 

[Accelerator59]

Rail replacement starts today.

There are many out of area vehicles down for it. So far vehicles from as far away as Newbury and the Midlands have been seen route learning.

That might be one of the buses I saw last night outside Truro Railway station. Reply #19,985.

So, the bus I saw was YX23 OTA which is part of Transpora fleet. Seen parked outside Truro railway station.

 

[Goldfish62]

I wonder if the result of the Cornwall tender not going their way may have caused some of this

Since the inception of TfC there's been Sunseeker, revised Lizard, Cornwall Daytripper and individual route brands for the open toppers introduced. Then a few months ago we reached Peak Branding with every Mousehole Sprinter in a different colour.

Route branding has not worked for Kernow even before TfC. The fleet looks a mess now with no consistency
I know some will say who cares what colour the bus is but it's a poor image when something turns up in one area that is plastered in vinyls for another. And half of them, people don't register because so many vehicles are a hotchpotch of different colours .
Personal choice for Kernow would be paint everything Lizard green with Sunseeker yellow for the open tops. Everyone recognises a TfC bus down here because of the uniform livery.
( Driver of 15 years ).
NBC white anyone? !!

I agree that it's never really worked. I remember when a batch of Tridents were painted in Atlantic Coasters livery for Penzance based A17, but were normally to be found operating out of Helston.

It really depends what First wants at a corporate level in future. That could be anything from continuing with local liveries controlled at a local level, to a national template with local or regional colours to a full national corporate livery.

I'm also sure Cornwall Council would also want to influence any changes as part of the enhanced partnership. That could be more prominent use of the TfC logo through to adoption of red TfC livery.

 

[83G/84D]

Solo 53701 is making a relatively rare appearance on the 17 this morning. I imagine it will be replaced later as deckers become available after school/ College duties.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Since the inception of TfC there's been Sunseeker, revised Lizard, Cornwall Daytripper and individual route brands for the open toppers introduced. Then a few months ago we reached Peak Branding with every Mousehole Sprinter in a different colour.


I agree that it's never really worked. I remember when a batch of Tridents were painted in Atlantic Coasters livery for Penzance based A17, but were normally to be found operating out of Helston.

It really depends what First wants at a corporate level in future. That could be anything from continuing with local liveries controlled at a local level, to a national template with local or regional colours to a full national corporate livery.

I'm also sure Cornwall Council would also want to influence any changes as part of the enhanced partnership. That could be more prominent use of the TfC logo through to adoption of red TfC livery.

This is well-trodden ground regarding the multitude of liveries. With the exception of Mousehole (that should have a dedicated fleet) and the Tinners (critical mass - big enough PVR to sustain route branding), there's too much interworking and outbasing of the "everyday" fleet to really enable individual route branding to be successfully IMO.

The open toppers are perhaps slightly different and I do see the point of route branding on the Lands End and the Atlantic Coasters (with maps) IF they could be relied upon to be allocated on there permanently which they should achieve. The other routes... Just use the same livery but with a generic Cornish Coaster fleetname.

IMO, they need to get the errant B9TLs (37328, 37338, 37339, 37620 and 37638) painted out of the myriad of liveries into Kernow green. The other schemes like Unique and DayTripper will disappear when more B9TLs arrive but no point sitting on their hands on some of those vehicles that continue to wear former liveries.

 

[Goldfish62]

This is well-trodden ground regarding the multitude of liveries. With the exception of Mousehole (that should have a dedicated fleet) and the Tinners (critical mass - big enough PVR to sustain route branding), there's too much interworking and outbasing of the "everyday" fleet to really enable individual route branding to be successfully IMO.

The open toppers are perhaps slightly different and I do see the point of route branding on the Lands End and the Atlantic Coasters (with maps) IF they could be relied upon to be allocated on there permanently which they should achieve. The other routes... Just use the same livery but with a generic Cornish Coaster fleetname.

IMO, they need to get the errant B9TLs (37328, 37338, 37339, 37620 and 37638) painted out of the myriad of liveries into Kernow green. The other schemes like Unique and DayTripper will disappear when more B9TLs arrive but no point sitting on their hands on some of those vehicles that continue to wear former liveries.

Given there have been no repaints for over six months, and no branding applied to the last repaints that were done (apart from small Kernow - TfC logos in a couple of cases) I'm assuming the Kernow livery and associated variants is defunct.

Word is that something new is appearing early next year, so we will have to wait and see. That may or may not of course coincide with a new corporate livery / livery template.

As an OT aside word is that GoAhead will also have a new livery template soon, but again that appears to fly contrary the new Morebus and Brighton & Hove liveries (horrible in the latter case).

 

[Citistar]

As an OT aside word is that GoAhead will also have a new livery template soon, but again that appears to fly contrary the new Morebus and Brighton & Hove liveries (horrible in the latter case).

I hope it's not designed by the usual place because they're clearly out of idea.

 

[co-tr-paul]

NBC green anyone ?

 

[Busaholic]

NBC green anyone ?

Tilling green would be more acceptable!

 

[Andyh82]

Given there have been no repaints for over six months, and no branding applied to the last repaints that were done (apart from small Kernow - TfC logos in a couple of cases) I'm assuming the Kernow livery and associated variants is defunct.

Word is that something new is appearing early next year, so we will have to wait and see. That may or may not of course coincide with a new corporate livery / livery template.

This doesn’t explain why all the other parts of the new wider South West operations (Somerset, Beeline, Wessex, Solent) have continued painting buses in local liveries

It seems to be a rumour based on what Kernow are doing (or not doing) only

 

[Whiteway215]

Tilling green would be more acceptable!

With cream bands.

 

[Goldfish62]

With cream bands.

And gold underlined names.

 

[co-tr-paul]

Not old enough to remember Tilling Green, although it was still around !

 

[JKP]

With cream bands.

And black window surrounds.

 

[B7RLE]

This doesn’t explain why all the other parts of the new wider South West operations (Somerset, Beeline, Wessex, Solent) have continued painting buses in local liveries

It seems to be a rumour based on what Kernow are doing (or not doing) only

Good Point as it does only seem to be Kernow that's Stalled

 

[Goldfish62]

This doesn’t explain why all the other parts of the new wider South West operations (Somerset, Beeline, Wessex, Solent) have continued painting buses in local liveries

It seems to be a rumour based on what Kernow are doing (or not doing)

When I first heard said rumour it certainly wasn't in relation to what Kernow were or weren't doing.

Meanwhile, looking on BusTimes a Gemini was back in the Mousehole service today. Looks like a Solo and a Sprinter are off the road.

I really do despair about whether the service is going to run consistently normally ever again!

 

[wiltshirebloke]

More services migrating from BOS to First West of England, as well as extra journeys being added to some BOS routes are included in service changes due Monday 27th November - full changes published today online

Services 55, 77/77a

No changes will be made to the timetables, but these services will be operated by First West of England and Wales from Wells depot, rather than Buses of Somerset’s Yeovil depot. This does not affect customers.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

More services migrating from BOS to First West of England, as well as extra journeys being added to some BOS routes are included in service changes due Monday 27th November - full changes published today online

It's been known that route learning has been being undertaken on the 55 and 77 by Wells staff, using one of the Eclipses released from the Discover routes. It's been based in Wells for the last week and a half.

There are obviously wider implications in what this means for the remaining services in Yeovil. That'll leave them with just 7 boards so unless they're planning to have an outbase, then it looks like the end of days. Very sad - I had a soft spot for this outpost. Even in Cawlett days, it was the most challenging territory and seldom saw any investment. One wonders what the prognosis is for, not only Yeovil, but the rest of BoS.

The other question surrounds Wells depot and its ability to take on more work. I've been amazed that they managed to take on stuff from Bridgwater and they are still dropping journeys on some of their key routes.

 

[M803UYA]

It's been known that route learning has been being undertaken on the 55 and 77 by Wells staff, using one of the Eclipses released from the Discover routes. It's been based in Wells for the last week and a half.

There are obviously wider implications in what this means for the remaining services in Yeovil. That'll leave them with just 7 boards so unless they're planning to have an outbase, then it looks like the end of days. Very sad - I had a soft spot for this outpost. Even in Cawlett days, it was the most challenging territory and seldom saw any investment. One wonders what the prognosis is for, not only Yeovil, but the rest of BoS.

The other question surrounds Wells depot and its ability to take on more work. I've been amazed that they managed to take on stuff from Bridgwater and they are still dropping journeys on some of their key routes.

More surprised the 55 isn't being run from Taunton - it starts/finishes in Wrantage! Not quite 6 miles distant from the starting point.... but 5.7 miles.

Wells is 25.4 miles away. A 50 mile round trip to take up/come off service. With drivers earning a higher hourly rate. Not sure how that helps the company address the costs of operation?

Last new investment Yeovil had were two Mercedes 709/Alexander 29 seaters in 1996. 738/9 (N556/7EYB). Fair to assume they're no longer around. Willing to be corrected, but Mercedes 711/Alexander 785 (P448 KYC) initially ran from Taunton before transfer over in 1997. Either way a 26 year wait for a brand new bus compares unfavourably with Bridgwater and Taunton depots..... Prior to the 2005 'improvements' a lot of the bus workings were tendered contracts. Much of that work remains, First aren't operating it.

People are often surprised when I point out Cawlett, in it's strained financial situation was able to add a minimum of 10 new buses each year it was an independent operation after the first couple of years of control. First's new investment was two batches of short Enviro 200s in 2008/9.

 

[Busaholic]

People are often surprised when I point out Cawlett, in it's strained financial situation was able to add a minimum of 10 new buses each year it was an independent operation after the first couple of years of control. First's new investment was two batches of short Enviro 200s in 2008/9.

Bus deregulation was sold to the public as breaking up inefficient, monopolistic, publically-owned companies being replaced by thrusting, dynamic, new private companies all competing furiously with one another. That supposed 'ideal' situation, if it ever existed in a few areas, never became a reality nationwide and now we have large, inefficient, companies in the private sector, mostly international and in thrall to shareholders, operating near monopolistically. Hence the contrast you allude to.

 

[Citistar]

Bus deregulation was sold to the public as breaking up inefficient, monopolistic, publically-owned companies being replaced by thrusting, dynamic, new private companies all competing furiously with one another. That supposed 'ideal' situation, if it ever existed in a few areas, never became a reality nationwide and now we have large, inefficient, companies in the private sector, mostly international and in thrall to shareholders, operating near monopolistically. Hence the contrast you allude to.

Southern National (NBC or Cawlett eras) would have collapsed completely faced with the massive drain on resources that is SPS in the area. I remain impressed that First are still persisting with the public facing service at all.

 

[Goldfish62]

Looks like almost all Cornwall buses that were previously anonymous have received Kernow, First or TfC logos, or a combination of.

Those in base Kernow livery without any vinyls have received no additional embellishments.