First Trenitalia (Avanti!) WCML branding, naming and livery

[mpthomson]

The UK Highway Code says "at least 45 metres" and of course most motorists will only walk the minimum to comply. This is, of course, crazy, as you note, but not as bad as France which says 30m! Belgium law requires 100m on fast roads - which is still only just enough distance to stop. It seems strange that the UN has not standardised these basic measures like they have white and red lights and so on. I think railway standards are better plus the signal controllers are better. At least warning triangles are not used on railway as far as I know so seeing a stopped Avanti in the distance should not confuse the railway - it might give drivers pause if it stops near a road crossing.

They shouldn’t be used on dual carriageways or motorways at all and the Traffic Officers/Police will give anyone who does a stern talking at. They get sucked into the carriageway by large vehicles and become very effective missiles.

 

[PG]

Is the fare on the hypoteneuse the sum of the fares on the other two sides?

ha ha !
Post of the day

 

[London Trains]

Is the fare on the hypoteneuse the sum of the fares on the other two sides?

haha but im not sure it's a right angled triangle

 

[Energy]

haha but im not sure it's a right angled triangle

Gives an extra challenge.

 

[ashkeba]

They shouldn’t be used on dual carriageways or motorways at all and the Traffic Officers/Police will give anyone who does a stern talking at. They get sucked into the carriageway by large vehicles and become very effective missiles.

The UK highway code advises against them on motorways but not dual carriageways. HGV drivers who pass close enough fast enough to suck them over should be penalised (I am sure none of my friends would), not the breakdown victim!

If we drive a freight train close enough fast enough past an A WC train, will it suck off the triangle?

 

[PR1Berske]

I believe "suck off the triangle" to be a long lost euphemism from around the time polari was still in use.

 

[Sweetjesus]

With the primary colours being similar, I suspect there'll be people getting wrong kind of train and getting £100+ fine...

 

[PR1Berske]

With the primary colours being similar, I suspect there'll be people getting wrong kind of train and getting £100+ fine...

Utterly ridiculous.

Passengers aren't that stupid.
TOCs not that malicious.

 

[Starmill]

Passengers aren't that stupid.

A lot of passengers have no concept of tickets being valid on specific companies trains only, or in many cases of there even being different companies. Typical customers think very differently to railway enthusiasts or industry experts.

TOCs not that malicious.

The evidence does not support the view that TOCs won't bring unreasonable prosecutions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The UK highway code advises against them on motorways but not dual carriageways. HGV drivers who pass close enough fast enough to suck them over should be penalised (I am sure none of my friends would), not the breakdown victim!

If we drive a freight train close enough fast enough past an A WC train, will it suck off the triangle?

Their primary benefit is alerting people to a stationary vehicle up ahead on a windy road where the vehicle potentially can't be seen until it's emergency braking time. On a long, wide, straightish road the actual vehicle plus its hazard lights or at least reflectors are going to be much more visible.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot of passengers have no concept of tickets being valid on specific companies trains only, or in many cases of there even being different companies. Typical customers think very differently to railway enthusiasts or industry experts.

And it's not always made obvious that you are buying a TOC specific ticket. I erroneously purchased a TPE Only ticket on the Trainline app earlier on. Fortunately the train I intended to use (and did use) was TPE, but given the way things have been going today if it had showed up full and standing I wanted the flexibility to use Northern instead. As it turned out I saved money, but it could have cost me.

 

[Nymanic]

Passengers aren't that stupid.

Travelling on 319372 earlier this evening (under the employ of Northern, PIS fully operational, and still sporting the ex-FCC interior) I overheard one passenger ask the other if 'this is a Transpennine train', to which their accomplice could not offer a response.

Make of that what you might.

As far as rail travel is concerned, the capacity for intelligence is usually there; the will is usually not.

 

[PG]

And it's not always made obvious that you are buying a TOC specific ticket. I erroneously purchased a TPE Only ticket on the Trainline app earlier on. Fortunately the train I intended to use (and did use) was TPE, but given the way things have been going today if it had showed up full and standing I wanted the flexibility to use Northern instead. As it turned out I saved money, but it could have cost me.

You use trainline!

 

[RailWonderer]

The new livery's dark green is awful and doesn't suit the sleek lines of the pendolino, it's an abomination, and that logo belongs in front of an investment bank rather than the side of a train and at stations. Perhaps if the people in charge, like GA, are PR people that happen to run a railway on the side then the logo is appropriate.
Virgin, despite their faults people liked to be vocal on, were a brilliant railway operator and this new operator makes things worse, because they will of course, you will realise we were lucky to have had Virgin back in the day.

 

[johnnychips]

So painting a train green inevitability means that the new operator will make things worse?

 

[PR1Berske]

So painting a train green inevitability means that the new operator will make things worse?

Some recent posters appear to believe that TOCs are deliberately choosing certain colours on the specific and particular basis that, for example, the colour green is the only thing passengers see when boarding a train.

I can only leave this conspiracy to the rest of the forum to consider its potential for happening.

 

[RealTrains07]

It's been around for so long that I didn't really count it as part of the new trend.

It would probably be more obvious to more people if it had railway at the end like the original

 

[ashkeba]

Some recent posters appear to believe that TOCs are deliberately choosing certain colours on the specific and particular basis that, for example, the colour green is the only thing passengers see when boarding a train.

The only thing SOME passengers see. WCML intercities have been red and the cheaper locals blue and/or green (Silverlink, Central, LM and LNR) since decades. We will see what happens but more disputes will surprise no-one!

 

[RealTrains07]

They may just say Avanti, as they do with LNER, they just say LNER, not London North Eastern Railways

Although they did say London North Eastern Railway in the early months of the franchise so it wouldnt surprise if they did say the full name considering thats whats on the livery

 

[Sweetjesus]

Some recent posters appear to believe that TOCs are deliberately choosing certain colours on the specific and particular basis that, for example, the colour green is the only thing passengers see when boarding a train.

I can only leave this conspiracy to the rest of the forum to consider its potential for happening.

Having looked through this thread, I have not seen anyone to make this suggestion that the livery colour being similar between the two TOCs is a deliberate decision.

Brand identity is a core issue in many industries including railways industry and I'm sure First Trenitalia has already looked into this issue and decided this was a risk worth taking.

Time will tell whether the decision taken by the management was a good one or not.

 

[ashkeba]

Having looked through this thread, I have not seen anyone to make this suggestion that the livery colour being similar between the two TOCs is a deliberate decision.

Brand identity is a core issue in many industries including railways industry and I'm sure First Trenitalia has already looked into this issue and decided this was a risk worth taking.

Of course it is to them. They get extra revenue if there is confusion, don't they? The worst they will suffer is if LNR fail hard then it will hurt their brand further.

 

[RealTrains07]

The new livery's dark green is awful and doesn't suit the sleek lines of the pendolino, it's an abomination, and that logo belongs in front of an investment bank rather than the side of a train and at stations. Perhaps if the people in charge, like GA, are PR people that happen to run a railway on the side then the logo is appropriate.
Virgin, despite their faults people liked to be vocal on, were a brilliant railway operator and this new operator makes things worse, because they will of course, you will realise we were lucky to have had Virgin back in the day.

I know avanti wanted a logo which was memorable but a triangle just doesnt fit right, especially with a single A next to it

 

[RealTrains07]

“A world class service” definitely not how i would describe first

definitely not if we get the hard seats, the tpe 802 seats are awful so far

Also to note, i have a feeling first are gonna remove the shop as previously rumoured on the threat, the document stated how they are going to bring a new contemporary “at seat catering service with water refills” your not gonna get water refills from a trolley put it that way

The livery is a mess, at least virgin brand and livery was memorable, avanti has nice colours but the livery has so many colours going on

 

[RealTrains07]

Having looked through this thread, I have not seen anyone to make this suggestion that the livery colour being similar between the two TOCs is a deliberate decision.

Brand identity is a core issue in many industries including railways industry and I'm sure First Trenitalia has already looked into this issue and decided this was a risk worth taking.

Time will tell whether the decision taken by the management was a good one or not.

Well at least when LNR and Avanti merge after 2026 it will be less of an issue then

 

[jon0844]

The new livery's dark green is awful and doesn't suit the sleek lines of the pendolino, it's an abomination, and that logo belongs in front of an investment bank rather than the side of a train and at stations. Perhaps if the people in charge, like GA, are PR people that happen to run a railway on the side then the logo is appropriate.
Virgin, despite their faults people liked to be vocal on, were a brilliant railway operator and this new operator makes things worse, because they will of course, you will realise we were lucky to have had Virgin back in the day.

Isn't pretty much everyone TUPE'ing over, so for all intents and purposes it will be Virgin Trains with a new uniform and livery. Even the social media team will be staying on, so all the 'wild and wacky' banter will remain - and the new TOC has already made it clear in an interview that they want to continue in the same vein.

I don't think changing the colour of the train exterior is going to have as much of an impact as you think it will.

 

[RealTrains07]

Isn't pretty much everyone TUPE'ing over, so for all intents and purposes it will be Virgin Trains with a new uniform and livery. Even the social media team will be staying on, so all the 'wild and wacky' banter will remain - and the new TOC has already made it clear in an interview that they want to continue in the same vein.

I don't think changing the colour of the train exterior is going to have as much of an impact as you think it will.

Its good that everything stays the same but i think the decision to do so is a very unique one considering changeovers in recent years

 

[Ladder23]

any idea on when we can expect to see these in the Avanti livery

 

[AlterEgo]

Its good that everything stays the same but i think the decision to do so is a very unique one considering changeovers in recent years

TUPE is a legal right; it happens with every franchise change.

 

[mpthomson]

The UK highway code advises against them on motorways but not dual carriageways. HGV drivers who pass close enough fast enough to suck them over should be penalised (I am sure none of my friends would), not the breakdown victim!

If we drive a freight train close enough fast enough past an A WC train, will it suck off the triangle?

Sighs.... no they shouldn’t....

Back to livery froth...

 

[PR1Berske]

Just because you keep typing "Avanti has used a livery colour similar to somebody else, therefore it's a ploy to confuse passengers to earn more money/grab more fines/act like a Bond villain/etc" doesn't make it true or realistic or bound to the realms of reality.

Avanti has chosen this colour...because they've chosen this colour. I know we have a right to be cynical on these forums, I appreciate that attitudes towards TOCs can be somewhat sceptical around these parts, and Lord knows we have examples of TOCs not always considering the passenger above the operation of the railways, I just cannot grasp how anybody could seriously consider that a professional organisation has sat down during the franchise bid process and concluded "I know chaps, passengers are so stupid and eager to travel on whatever comes up the tracks first, that we'll use a colour quite similar to another company and watch the revenue fly on in."

Given that the colours of TOCs here at Preston are mostly white or mostly blue, I doubt that a greeny-blue-with-triangle is going to cause the vast transfer of passengers from intended destination X that some people here believe.