Flying Scotsman London to Cardiff (7th June)

[Andy001z]

Hi, hope I got the right place for this, new here.

The Flying Scotsman is on its tour (of course you know this already), however what I am struggling with is getting an idea on times to see this lovely train. I would like to see it under steam, and I already know that from NewPort to Cardiff the Diesal will be at the front pulling. When it leaves Cardiff it will be under steam. I would like to see it somewhere between Cardiff and Newport, is anyone in the know on timings? The official site for the Flying Scotsman tour, is stating that times are not given for safety reasons (really!).

Any help would be much apricated.

Many thanks
Andy

 

[Darandio]

is stating that times are not given for safety reasons (really!).

Welcome

Yes really!

It's a huge safety issue as many steam hauled railtours and particularly those hauled by Flying Scotsman are plagued by multiple trespass incidents. These are becoming increasingly more frequent and dangerous.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Welcome

Yes really!

It's a huge safety issue as many steam hauled railtours and particularly those hauled by Flying Scotsman are plagued by multiple trespass incidents. These are becoming increasingly more frequent and dangerous.

What difference does it make delaying releasing the times a bit, the route, day and time of day are known, and the times will still show up on RTT soon enough.

UK Steam Rail Day Trips and Worldwide Rail Holidays

The Railway Touring Company has a long established reputation for providing an interesting variety of UK day trips by steam train and tours in the UK, Europe and Worldwide.

www.railwaytouring.net

Our steam hauled train leaves London Paddington in the morning and we make our way to Slough, our first call for more passengers. We continue westwards along the GWR main line and make a further stop for passengers boarding at Reading. Our journey continues through the Vale of White Horse to Swindon, after which we take the South Wales Direct line through the Alderton and Chipping Sodbury Tunnels towards Bristol Parkway.

From Bristol Parkway we travel through the Severn Tunnel towards Newport, where we will use the triangle at Maindee to turn the train, with the diesel taking us onwards through Newport to our destination for the day, Cardiff.

Having had about 3 hours to explore Cardiff, we will return steam hauled by Flying Scotsman via Reading and Slough before terminating in London Paddington, ending what promises to be a varied and enjoyable day out.

 

[Darandio]

What difference does it make delaying releasing the times a bit, the route, day and time of day are known,

Ask those who made the decision.

and the times will still show up on RTT soon enough.

Not as soon as used to be normally the case.

 

[Watershed]

What difference does it make delaying releasing the times a bit, the route, day and time of day are known, and the times will still show up on RTT soon enough.

None. The reality is that people are prepared to wait for a long time to see or get a photo of a famous locomotive like this.

How do RTC expect people to book without having even an indication of the timings? It's nonsensical.

If NR really are that worried about trespassers, they'd be better off improving their fencing, which still has enough holes to allow people to get trackside.

On the other hand, perhaps they would do well to take a leaf out of most continental railways' book, whereby the only lines with fencing are high speed ones and the concept of personal responsibility applies...

 

[Nova1]

If NR really are that worried about trespassers, they'd be better off improving their fencing, which still has enough holes to allow people to get trackside.

If people want to trespass, they'll do it.

You can't fence everywhere off.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

You can't fence everywhere off.

Fences aren't an instant win, even without holes, they can be gone over.

 

[james_the_xv]

If NR really are that worried about trespassers, they'd be better off improving their fencing, which still has enough holes to allow people to get trackside.

This is the common argument whenever it comes to trespass issues around charter trains, but there are many better things NR do and should spend their maintenance budgets on than securing and constantly checking close to 10,000 miles of network for something that only comes around a couple of times a year.

On the other hand, perhaps they would do well to take a leaf out of most continental railways' book, whereby the only lines with fencing are high speed ones and the concept of personal responsibility applies...

Personal responsibility is all well and good, but when NR are having to pay out compensation to other TOCs because of trespass incidents it's no wonder they try to mitigate the risks as much as possible by delaying publication of the timetable. I'm also not sure RAIB or the ORR would come out gleefully in favour of 'personal responsibility' if a serious incident was to occur. Charter rail is only a major incident away from being very strictly regulated.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

but when NR are having to pay out compensation to other TOCs because of trespass incidents

Why are NR paying? Surely the trespasser should.

 

[Darandio]

Why are NR paying? Surely the trespasser should.

Good luck getting £1m+ out of lineside Johnny.

 

[swt_passenger]

Fences aren't an instant win, even without holes, they can be gone over.

I believe many safety issues occur on open platforms anyway.

 

[james_the_xv]

Why are NR paying? Surely the trespasser should.

The trespasser is liable for prosecution under the Railway Regulation Act 1840 (£1000 fine etc). But compensation to TOCs for non-possession related disruption comes under Schedule 8 payments.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I believe many safety issues occur on open platforms anyway.

Likely so, and I wouldn't expect an attempt at platform screen doors for multiple classes any time soon.

 

[30907]

I believe many safety issues occur on open platforms anyway.

Indeed. And on a network as busy as ours, with a very well-developed steam charter market (pretty much unique in Europe) and a famous/overhyped (delete as preferred*) loco running, it is unsurprising that NR/BTP/NRM are jittery.

*having seen the demand on my local heritage line, I am not complaining, but I am a SR man as my nickname implies

 

[Andy001z]

Guys all good points but back to my original question, but anyone got any ideas on how to work timings? I don't have all day to wait around, I'm taking the kids to see it and they have a pottery class later in the afternoon. Is there any kind of Twitter Train watch that might give hints?

 

[matt]

Guys all good points but back to my original question, but anyone got any ideas on how to work timings? I don't have all day to wait around, I'm taking the kids to see it and they have a pottery class later in the afternoon. Is there any kind of Twitter Train watch that might give hints?

The timings will likely appear on the day on sites such as https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The timings will likely appear on the day on sites such as https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/detailed/

More accurately:

Realtime Trains | Departures from London Paddington all day on 07/06/2023

Train information at London Paddington all day on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

for Paddington (I'm assuming West Coast Railway Company are running it since they have in the past)

 

[alastair]

Guys all good points but back to my original question, but anyone got any ideas on how to work timings? I don't have all day to wait around, I'm taking the kids to see it and they have a pottery class later in the afternoon. Is there any kind of Twitter Train watch that might give hints?

Have a look at RTT after 7 or 8 pm the night before.

Welcome

Yes really!

It's a huge safety issue as many steam hauled railtours and particularly those hauled by Flying Scotsman are plagued by multiple trespass incidents. These are becoming increasingly more frequent and dangerous.

Are you sure that is actually the case? I am very well aware of well-publicised trespass incidents with FS but my impression was that the worst ones were a few years ago. During the run to Par a few weeks ago, despite unprecedented crowds lining the route all the way from Teignmouth to beyond Dawlish Warren, I don't think there were any reports of trespass?

I'm not trying to minimise the issue at all, but I don't believe "talking it up" is helpful. Apologies if I an wrong and you have a reliable source for your assertion.

 

[Spartacus]

Have a look at RTT after 7 or 8 pm the night before.


Are you sure that is actually the case? I am very well aware of well-publicised trespass incidents with FS but my impression was that the worst ones were a few years ago. During the run to Par a few weeks ago, despite unprecedented crowds lining the route all the way from Teignmouth to beyond Dawlish Warren, I don't think there were any reports of trespass?

I'm not trying to minimise the issue at all, but I don't believe "talking it up" is helpful. Apologies if I an wrong and you have a reliable source for your assertion.

I think that's precisely because of the protective measures now in place, such as making the timings hard to get hold of, not just for the rail enthusiast community but for local, and sometimes national news who had a habit of plastering it all over the 6/6.30pm news. Some have previous, I remember once hearing the times of the Royal Train on the news the day before! There's also a much wider safety message too. Some might not heed it, or even see it, but even RTT often has a safety message at the top of the page for charters now.

 

[Woolos 22]

Now on rrt

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Sidings - Paddington

Realtime Trains | 5Z52 0605 Southall Wcr to London Paddington | 07/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z52 0605 departure from Southall Wcr to London Paddington on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Paddington - Cardiff

Realtime Trains | 1Z52 0750 London Paddington to Cardiff Central | 07/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z52 0750 departure from London Paddington to Cardiff Central on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Cardiff - Sidings

Realtime Trains | 5Z53 1337 Cardiff Central to Pengam Sidings | 07/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z53 1337 departure from Cardiff Central to Pengam Sidings on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Sidings - Cardiff

Realtime Trains | 5Z54 1630 Pengam Sidings to Cardiff Central | 07/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z54 1630 departure from Pengam Sidings to Cardiff Central on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Cardiff - Paddington

Realtime Trains | 1Z54 1650 Cardiff Central to London Paddington | 07/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z54 1650 departure from Cardiff Central to London Paddington on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Paddington - Sidings

Realtime Trains | 5Z55 2242 London Paddington to Southall Wcr | 07/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z55 2242 departure from London Paddington to Southall Wcr on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

This might be its way down (same weight and speed set), displaying cancelled and still running

Realtime Trains | 5Z63 1243 Carnforth Steamtown to Southall Wcr | 05/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z63 1243 departure from Carnforth Steamtown to Southall Wcr on 05/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[zwk500]

I'm not trying to minimise the issue at all, but I don't believe "talking it up" is helpful. Apologies if I an wrong and you have a reliable source for your assertion.

It died down for a while but then flared back up in 2019 - There was a Flying Scotsman tour in the West Mids at some point that summer which caused absolute carnage with photographers taking their kids right up to the ballast several hours early and refusing to move behind the fence when spoken to by service trains. They also crowded Tyseley platform to a quite dangerous level (and then, tragically or hilariously depending on your point of view, they were bowled by a Voyager).
Trespass with Scotsman is a real issue, because it gets a far bigger media profile than any other loco (even Tornado), and thus it tends to attract a far broader ranger of interest. Because of it's profile even seasoned spotters have been known to put themselves in ridiculous positions.

 

[P Binnersley]

The cat is out of the bag.

Where to see steam locomotive 60103 Flying Scotsman as it visits Cardiff this Wednesday (Railadvent)

The tour originates at London Paddington with the famous locomotive departing at 07:50.

After London Paddington, the A3 locomotive will pass through Slough (08:20), Twyford (08:37), Reading (08:48), Didcot Parkway (09:22), Swindon (Wilts) (10:33), Bristol Parkway (11:16), Pilning (11:27), Severn Tunnel Junction (12:04), Newport (South Wales) (12:52) and Cardiff Central at 13:24.


With the loco's time in Cardiff over, Flying Scotsman will depart at 16:50 and will return via the same outbound route, passing through Severn Tunnel Junction (17:30), Bristol Parkway (17:48), Swindon (Wilts) (19:27), Didcot Parkway (20:41), Reading (21:07), Slough (21:32) and London Paddington at 22:07

The article also has a links to Real Time Trains.

 

[zwk500]

The cat is out of the bag.

Where to see steam locomotive 60103 Flying Scotsman as it visits Cardiff this Wednesday (Railadvent)



The article also has a links to Real Time Trains.

Always happens. The idea is to moderate demand more than anything else. You'll never stop truly determined people so they don't go to the effort the Royal Train gets, but by holding on to late in the day enough people will either have decided it's not worth bothering or made alternative plans that it's hopefully not quite so mad. Whether it works like that in real life is a different story.

 

[Tom]

even RTT often has a safety message at the top of the page for charters now.

Only for tours involving Royal Scotsman. I've made arrangements with NR for such tours to be signposted appropriately to us so we can put the message on from the moment it is uploaded.

 

[colchesterken]

Do we know if it is running to time, Does not seem to be on real time trains, the grandkids are planning to see it on the way back

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Do we know if it is running to time, Does not seem to be on real time trains, the grandkids are planning to see it on the way back

It's in Pengam Sidings near Cardiff currently, on time by the fact it's not due to leave the sidings for half an hour RTT times attached

Sidings - Cardiff

Realtime Trains | 5Z54 1630 Pengam Sidings to Cardiff Central | 07/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z54 1630 departure from Pengam Sidings to Cardiff Central on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Cardiff - Paddington

Realtime Trains | 1Z54 1650 Cardiff Central to London Paddington | 07/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 1Z54 1650 departure from Cardiff Central to London Paddington on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Paddington - Sidings

Realtime Trains | 5Z55 2242 London Paddington to Southall Wcr | 07/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Z55 2242 departure from London Paddington to Southall Wcr on 07/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[colchesterken]

thanks very much. could not find the outward run on RTT

 

[pdeaves]

thanks very much. could not find the outward run on RTT

If you want to check the outward for interest's sake, the links are in post 21 above

 

[duncananderson]

Looking at the RTT pages from yesterday, there was no significant delay in either direction, so reasonable to assume there were no trespass issues on this occasion.

I saw it (from behind a fence) at Tilehurst, along with one other spotter, and a passer-by who asked what we were waiting for and decided to wait with us. Not exactly crowded out, but then it was 9am on an overcast weekday morning.