Football Hooligans - AGAIN

[SouthStand]

Will you be protesting outside my work then?

Don't feel the need particularly.

I'll just continue to watch my team away from home, using whichever train I like (subject to the tickets' validity), having a few beers when I get there, and returning home again like I have for the last 20 years or so.

PS Let me know if you're working anywhere on the Peterborough to London, or London to Portsmouth routes on the 25th of this month, I'd love to say hello.

 

[Bellwater]

Anyway, going back to Football Hooliganism in general, i wouldn't be surprised if it takes off again with the Economic Situation getting worse.

A Month ago a mate sent me a picture of Manchester United and Liverpool Fans fighting each other outside Lime Street Station after their cup tie, it wasn't pleasant. Could have flared up at Widnes(with a lot of Liverpool Fans)and Warrington(Manchester United)but thankfully didn't.

 

[TUC]

I think poor police advice and handling is probably part of it. Apparently the Pass Comm was pulled en route and the train paused but continued. On arrival at Hartlepool police and replacement coaches were already waiting. The police then decided to retain passengers on board, before then shifting them to another train rather than the replacement buses. The police attitudes has been called into question when there were passengers in need of medical attention.

So ordinary passengers who were nothing to do with the hooliganism were made to remain n the train with the very people who were intimidating them?!

Just how thick was PC Plod being?

 

[Minilad]

Wonder if that was in The Daily Mail?

Drunk women are awful sometimes and it makes no difference if they are jovial or aggresive they are much worse that most footie fans.

However the worst type of passenger, which includes men and women are Racegoers (not all, but a loud minority) and they are a nightmare. I totally dread Racedays!!!!!

That reminds me Cheltenham soon. Oh God

 

[DarloRich]

I was travelling on a train from Manchester to Bristol on a Saturday evening last November. The journey was ruined by Man U football fans. I was hoping for a relaxing journey but it felt like the whole carriage was full of them with their racist chants, shouting from one end of the carriage to the other, and some of them even saying how they were dads - would they behave like this in front of their children?

Their excuse for this 'It's only banter! And anyway, if you get on a flight with a stag/hen party and they are noisy, you can't do anything about it, so others just have to put up with it, we're only having a laugh!'

I don't care if football hooligans are in the minority, there are too many in that minority for it not to be a problem. I am sure that most of the people on that train would be normal, respectful people in general but football just seems to be an excuse for too many people to be inconsiderate to others.

If they were udnertaking racist chanting (which i doubt) then why did you not report it to the gaurd and then the BTP? If they were commting a crime they would be arrested.

If you are not prepapred to confront problems how do you expect them to be dealt with?

Would you walk past a crime happening on the street? If it is such a problem then us law abiding citizens have to confront the issue.

As i said i often travel to games by train. If i feel someone has overstepped the mark i tell them.

 

[BestWestern]

If they were udnertaking racist chanting (which i doubt) then why did you not report it to the gaurd and then the BTP? If they were commting a crime they would be arrested.

If you are not prepapred to confront problems how do you expect them to be dealt with?

Would you walk past a crime happening on the street? If it is such a problem then us law abiding citizens have to confront the issue.

As i said i often travel to games by train. If i feel someone has overstepped the mark i tell them.

How incredibly naive you are

Nobody should be expected to confront a group of marauding, drunk, gobby footie yobs, and woe betide anybody who sees it as their place to do so. Your suggestion that you wade in there hero-like whenever your fellow fans misbehave would suggest that you don't travel with the type of troublesome idiots being discussed here. You'd have had your head kicked in by now, several times :roll:

The police are not the pro-active force you seem to think they are, the preferred tactic when dealing with large groups of problematic fans is simply to get them on their way, there is very little chance of them turning up to arrest an entire carriagefull because somebody complains about them chanting.

 

[DarloRich]

How incredibly naive you are

Nobody should be expected to confront a group of marauding, drunk, gobby footie yobs, and woe betide anybody who sees it as their place to do so. Your suggestion that you wade in there hero-like whenever your fellow fans misbehave would suggest that you don't travel with the type of troublesome idiots being discussed here. You'd have had your head kicked in by now, several times :roll:

The police are not the pro-active force you seem to think they are, the preferred tactic when dealing with large groups of problematic fans is simply to get them on their way, there is very little chance of them turning up to arrest an entire carriagefull because somebody complains about them chanting.

With respect - I am not suggesting you wade in like John Wayne. If you are upset i would expect you to have word with the people responsible, if they dont want to listen i would tell the gaurd and ask him to do the same. If they carried on i would expect the gaurd to contact the police. I have found MOST people, when challenged, will change thier behaviour.

No one has ever taken a swing at me, or tried to "kick my head in" when i have confronted them. The odd person has told me to f off but that is as far as it has gone.

I often take the train to matches. Say 7 times out of 10 we have a transport policeman or two on our train. They are proactive in keeping the behaviour of the most stupid in line.

But hey i am just a stupid football fan so god knows what I know about being a decent human being.

 

[spoony]

Just checking trains between Sunderland and Newcastle on the 4th March (Derby day) and its metro's only. Appears as if Northern have removed the service in both directions that day, all day. Surely they cant do this? There can be nothing wrong with the line as Grand Centrals are still operating southbound from Sunderland and Metros are running Northbound. This does actually inconvenience me as I was planning to travel by train to this match.

 

[Clip]

But hey i am just a stupid football fan so god knows what I know about being a decent human being.

Aye dont worry about it, come join me in my group of 'All tarred by the same brush' people.

It will be fun and we can compare stories of how even though I live close by to both Arsenal and Spurs if I wanted to go to these games in the future I would have to travel up to Newcastle to get an appointed coach all the way back down and up again and travel back down by train again.

Its a brilliant Idea and whoever came up with that plan really must get themselves on mastermind as they are just amazing.

 

[Anon Mouse]

Just checking trains between Sunderland and Newcastle on the 4th March (Derby day) and its metro's only. Appears as if Northern have removed the service in both directions that day, all day. Surely they cant do this? There can be nothing wrong with the line as Grand Centrals are still operating southbound from Sunderland and Metros are running Northbound. This does actually inconvenience me as I was planning to travel by train to this match.

I noticed that too, I was expecting them to put a special on as usual. I wonder if this has got anything to do with the trouble at Hartlepool before the Boro match?

 

[RichmondCommu]

...Replace 'narrow mindedness' with "EXPERIENCE"

Or prejudice?

 

[transmanche]

Just checking trains between Sunderland and Newcastle on the 4th March (Derby day) and its metro's only. Appears as if Northern have removed the service in both directions that day, all day. Surely they cant do this? There can be nothing wrong with the line as Grand Centrals are still operating southbound from Sunderland and Metros are running Northbound.

Northern Rail's 11 Dec 2011-13 May 2012 timetable booklet shows there's no Northern service between Sunderland and Newcastle on any Sunday 19 Feb-25 Mar inclusive.

 

[BestWestern]

Just checking trains between Sunderland and Newcastle on the 4th March (Derby day) and its metro's only. Appears as if Northern have removed the service in both directions that day, all day. Surely they cant do this? There can be nothing wrong with the line as Grand Centrals are still operating southbound from Sunderland and Metros are running Northbound. This does actually inconvenience me as I was planning to travel by train to this match.

That would certainly be a very substantial response if it was due to the previous incidents, are we sure there is definitely no other reason? If it was down to engineering work then it could perhaps be that only a limited number of trains can run over the route, e.g. pilotman working or somesuch? Very convenient for Northern though either way!

 

[Clip]

That would certainly be a very substantial response if it was due to the previous incidents, are we sure there is definitely no other reason? If it was down to engineering work then it could perhaps be that only a limited number of trains can run over the route, e.g. pilotman working or somesuch? Very convenient for Northern though either way!

Reaad the post above. No timetabled services. Not due to football 'Hooliganism' as you call it.

Which actually shows your grasp of what a football hooligan is rather then what you want one to be. But dont let that stop you from making outrageous remarks and offending every football fan on here and in the country.


Carry on.

 

[BestWestern]

Or prejudice?

Nope, just experience I'm afraid. It really is that simple.

I'm sorry that those fans who do behave themselves get so upset and being 'grouped' in with those who don't, but that's the effect your hooligan comrades have I'm afraid. Hence England fans are dreaded the world over, because a small minority insist in trashing every country the team visit. We can moan and complain and shout about how unfair it is all we like, but the reputation has grown from harsh experience, and it'll remain all the time the game continues to attract thugs. If you have issues with the reputation of football fans then the best thing you can do is aim your efforts towards the industry and its hooligans, rather than venting your spleen at those who very understandably get fed up with dealing with a crowd of degenerates every matchday.

 

[Clip]

Nope, just experience I'm afraid. It really is that simple.

I'm sorry that those fans who do behave themselves get so upset and being 'grouped' in with those who don't, but that's the effect your hooligan comrades have I'm afraid. Hence England fans are dreaded the world over, because a small minority insist in trashing every country the team visit. We can moan and complain and shout about how unfair it is all we like, but the reputation has grown from harsh experience, and it'll remain all the time the game continues to attract thugs. If you have issues with the reputation of football fans then the best thing you can do is aim your efforts towards the industry and its hooligans, rather than venting your spleen at those who very understandably get fed up with dealing with a crowd of degenerates every matchday.

:roll:

Source for your facts on this please? in fact over the last 20 years England away have been very well behaved compared to what they were previously through banning orders and passport confiscation before games to stop the proper hooligans going to them.

But again, lets not have my observations from following England abroad first hand get in the way of your broad artistic brush strokes of irrelevant and non - factual posts.

carry on.

 

[BestWestern]

Reaad the post above. No timetabled services. Not due to football 'Hooliganism' as you call it.

Which actually shows your grasp of what a football hooligan is rather then what you want one to be. But dont let that stop you from making outrageous remarks and offending every football fan on here and in the country.


Carry on.

I was typing my reply as the other post was being submitted. If YOU read the other posts you will observe that it wasn't me who suggested the service had been suspended due to previous incidents, and if you read my post you will observe that actually I was suggesting it was unlikely to be the case. And indeed if you read the thread title you will also observe that 'Hooligans' wasn't my wording, but that of the OP. Hooliganism is, in fact, the general term used for the behaviour being described throughout the thread. But don't let that stop you having a pop at me dear :roll:

Now then, put your handbag away, I don't do forum fights. If you have such a volatile dislike of other people's views, then perhaps a forum - in which other people post their views - isn't the best place for you to spend your evenings?!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

:roll:

Source for your facts on this please? in fact over the last 20 years England away have been very well behaved compared to what they were previously through banning orders and passport confiscation before games to stop the proper hooligans going to them.

But again, lets not have my observations from following England abroad first hand get in the way of your broad artistic brush strokes of irrelevant and non - factual posts.

carry on.

Oh come on, everybody knows England fans have a reputation as being among the worst, it's hardly an industry secret

I'm really not remotely interested in a discussion about the ins and outs of football or it's fanbase in general. This was, once, a thread about a thuggish group of football supporters on a train. You've done your best to hijack it and blast anybody else's opposing views out of the water, but those of us who deal with it know better, I'm afraid. Believe me, I wish we didn't, but we do!

Shall I take the initiative and suggest we leave the personal disagreement there, before the Mods feel the need to come in and lock the thread or start removing irrelevant posts?! Let's be civilised and do that.

 

[YorkshireBear]

I spent a good many (very happy) years stood at the back of the SWFC KOP with the very fans the give football the name it has now(supposedly). Most of them were great lads (no sexism i never saw a girl up there....) Only a few of them rightfully came under the brush that many give to football fans most just shouted and swore during those 90 minutes 23 times a year and the rest of the time were never like that. I was tarnished with that brush and nearly got arrested a few times just for being stood at the bus stop with the guys who tried to smash the windows on it. Its never that simple.

Football fans arn't thick. Some humans are thick and some of them happen to go to football just like some happen to like railways, like some happen to drive cars go shopping etc etc Its the way of the world.

 

[BestWestern]

Football fans arn't thick. Some humans are thick and some of them happen to go to football just like some happen to like railways, like some happen to drive cars go shopping etc etc Its the way of the world.

I agree, and many of the guys who get silly aren't thick either, which makes it all the more difficult to understand why they would choose to behave in that way. If it was simple to tell the ones who are planning on being trouble from the vast majority who are perfectly civil, then we'd all be happy. But sadly once everyone mingles it's the expected antics of the minority which necessitate the same approach being applied to everybody

 

[RichmondCommu]

I spent a good many (very happy) years stood at the back of the SWFC KOP with the very fans the give football the name it has now(supposedly). Most of them were great lads (no sexism i never saw a girl up there....) Only a few of them rightfully came under the brush that many give to football fans most just shouted and swore during those 90 minutes 23 times a year and the rest of the time were never like that. I was tarnished with that brush and nearly got arrested a few times just for being stood at the bus stop with the guys who tried to smash the windows on it. Its never that simple.

Football fans arn't thick. Some humans are thick and some of them happen to go to football just like some happen to like railways, like some happen to drive cars go shopping etc etc Its the way of the world.

Spot on Jimmy aka James. Up the Owls from a Rams fan! As a school boy I once scored in front of the Kop while competing in a under 16's tournament. I'm 45 now so that was a long time a go! Fingers crossed that Wednesday go up this season.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Spot on Jimmy aka James.

Ta

 

[Clip]

I was typing my reply as the other post was being submitted. If YOU read the other posts you will observe that it wasn't me who suggested the service had been suspended due to previous incidents, and if you read my post you will observe that actually I was suggesting it was unlikely to be the case. And indeed if you read the thread title you will also observe that 'Hooligans' wasn't my wording, but that of the OP. Hooliganism is, in fact, the general term used for the behaviour being described throughout the thread. But don't let that stop you having a pop at me dear :roll:

Now then, put your handbag away, I don't do forum fights. If you have such a volatile dislike of other people's views, then perhaps a forum - in which other people post their views - isn't the best place for you to spend your evenings?!--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Oh come on, everybody knows England fans have a reputation as being among the worst, it's hardly an industry secret

I'm really not remotely interested in a discussion about the ins and outs of football or it's fanbase in general. This was, once, a thread about a thuggish group of football supporters on a train. You've done your best to hijack it and blast anybody else's opposing views out of the water, but those of us who deal with it know better, I'm afraid. Believe me, I wish we didn't, but we do!
Shall I take the initiative and suggest we leave the personal disagreement there, before the Mods feel the need to come in and lock the thread or start removing irrelevant posts?! Let's be civilised and do that.

It appears to be you who is not taking on anyone elses views when you tarnish all football fans with the same thuggish brush and I have evry right to try and make my point to you or anyone else for that matter that we are not all like that and therefore we should not be treat like we are.

Ive not hijacked any thread but dont think you are the only one in this discussion who works on the railway and has to deal with not only rowdy fans but also the other rowdy sods that decide to travel on the railway, in fact by keep pointing this out like you're the only one who does merely does yourself a disservice when you try and argue that point because we already know as we deal with it too.

England may have a bad rep abroad but again, I have to defend the points made because this should not be a one way discussion in so much as you saying all fans are thugs/hooligans.

The bad rep is from many years ago and that rep will always stick with us, the same as 'trainspotter' sticks so badly in the press when it comes to the railway. The main problem England have away is that a rather nasty element of the National Front and other such groups now tag along - not to watch the football - most just stay in the pubs when they are there and not at the game - but they go with the mindset that they are going to have a fight and it doesnt matter who that is with - even with England fans themselves at times. Thats what they do. They are not fans, they are thugs who want a fight. And thats why the bad rep stays with England.

But again, it doesnt matter how I present this to you , you have too narrow a mind to actually take on board what it is myself and others have been saying. A minority does not reflect the majority.

But you stick with it, we're all thugs and hooligans. Including my 10 year old nephew who likes to go to the game with me along with many other female fans and other kids. All of us are thugs.

 

[BestWestern]

But you stick with it, we're all thugs and hooligans. Including my 10 year old nephew who likes to go to the game with me along with many other female fans and other kids. All of us are thugs.

Sigh :roll: I have acknowledged numerous times that it is only a small minority who cause the problems. At no point have I said that all football supporters are thugs, simply that there is a thuggish element who cause significant problems. That is the clear reality, whether you can live with it or not.

You are winding yourself up. Calm down and stop your hysterical ranting.

Peace man.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Will you be protesting outside my work then?

Oh so you’ve you’ve realized there was no threats in my post! Realised what a silly billy you have been and now you are trying a different approach! I await your apology.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Anyway, going back to Football Hooliganism in general, i wouldn't be surprised if it takes off again with the Economic Situation getting worse.

A Month ago a mate sent me a picture of Manchester United and Liverpool Fans fighting each other outside Lime Street Station after their cup tie, it wasn't pleasant. Could have flared up at Widnes(with a lot of Liverpool Fans)and Warrington(Manchester United)but thankfully didn't.

Nice way to brush it under the carpet. Next time you accuse someone of threatening you, get your facts right. Don't be blinded by your Leeds United hatred and stop thinking all Leeds fans are knuckle dragging hooligans. You've acted much more like a hooligan than the Leeds fans on this thread.

 

[Minilad]

Nope, just experience I'm afraid. It really is that simple.

I'm sorry that those fans who do behave themselves get so upset and being 'grouped' in with those who don't, but that's the effect your hooligan comrades have I'm afraid. Hence England fans are dreaded the world over, because a small minority insist in trashing every country the team visit. We can moan and complain and shout about how unfair it is all we like, but the reputation has grown from harsh experience, and it'll remain all the time the game continues to attract thugs. If you have issues with the reputation of football fans then the best thing you can do is aim your efforts towards the industry and its hooligans, rather than venting your spleen at those who very understandably get fed up with dealing with a crowd of degenerates every matchday.

What if we were to flip that round and suggest that because some guards sell wrong tickets or tell people tickets are not valid when they are then all guards are useless and shouldn't be working as a guard. I guess you, as a decent guard, would be all over that one telling us just because a few guards are like that we shouldn't tar everyone with the same brush

 

[Oswyntail]

I am not a football fan, though much of my family are (Luton, in case you wonder), so I know full well all about the majority/minority of fans issues. But, to one not a part of that scene, the entire "football crowd" is very intimidating. What may seem to the fans to be light hearted banter can seem to outsiders like pre-battle threats; a massive crowd leaving a ground after a defeat in a local derby is downright terrifying. Any non-football-fan who has travelled through stations local to clubs on a Saturday early evening will have experienced being scared. This is because crowds of which you are not a part trigger the "fight or flight" response. I cannot tell simply by looking - or even listening - which are in the "small minority" to be avoided. I am no whimpering ninny (usually), but so often the discussion about football crowds stays internal within the enclosed circle of fans, and ignores what those outside the circle might have as a legitimate response.
(PS I am frightened of dogs, having been bitten on several occasions, and no amount of being reassured that most dogs are harmless will get me over that)

 

[Flamingo]

Source for your facts on this please? in fact over the last 20 years England away have been very well behaved compared to what they were previously through banning orders and passport confiscation before games to stop the proper hooligans going to them.

Funnily enough, in my experience, the most troublesome fans I have to deal with are those in the 40-60 age group (who will have 10-15 year old kids with them, in a surprising number of cases). That would tie into being the ones who were of an age to have participated in the worst of the trouble.

Old habits die hard?

Anybody have any comments on that?

 

[Bellwater]

No idea what happened to this post...

 

[WelshBluebird]

Because you know full well just how much grief that small minority causes, and you know that it's out of order and totally unacceptable, and that it warrants harsh action being taken.

Harsh actions against that minority yes.
But not against the vast majority of normal, law abiding, non troubling making fans.

I can't help but be amused at those who genuinely feel that enforced travel arrangements to a football match breach anybody's 'yuman rites', bless!

I am a Cardiff fan. I live in Bath. This year they have changed it, but in previous years if I wanted to go to the Bristol v Cardiff game in Bristol, I would have had to go to Cardiff, get on the coach from Cardiff to Bristol, watch the game, get the coach back to Cardiff, then travel back to Bath. Totally and utterly stupid. And I am lucky in that Bath - Cardiff isn't far at all. What about those who live further away? It is just plain wrong. If you want to punish the hooligans, then fair enough. But I fail to see why law abiding fans should be the ones punished for the behaviour of a tiny minority.

because they can't behave themselves.

Except the vast majority DO behave themselves.

I was hoping for a relaxing journey

Naive on your part.

but it felt like the whole carriage was full of them with their racist chants

Really? Or are you mistaking racism to mean something it does not?
I have been going to football games most of my life, and I have NEVER heard a racist chant. Xenophobic, yes. Discriminatory, yes. But not racist.
(I am sorry, but it is a large bugbear of mine that people use the word racism when they don't actually know what it means).

shouting from one end of the carriage to the other

Oh the horror. Not exactly that bad is it? And it something that often happens on trains wherever you are, be it football fans or not.

I don't care if football hooligans are in the minority

Well you should care. Because it is downright wrong to suggest that all other fans should suffer because a small number what to create trouble. Also of note, from what you have said, the fans on that train are not hooligans.

there are too many in that minority for it not to be a problem.

I disagree.

I am sure that most of the people on that train would be normal, respectful people in general but football just seems to be an excuse for too many people to be inconsiderate to others.

inconsiderate to others or just having a good time?
I am sure you wouldn't care less if it was say a hen party being loud, or some people coming back from a concert singing songs etc etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sigh :roll: I have acknowledged numerous times that it is only a small minority who cause the problems.

So why do you think the vast majority of football fans should be punished / demeaned / inconvenienced because of that small minority?

Either you accept that it is a small minority, and you target that minority, and not the vast majority of law abiding fans.
Or you think it is the majority who cause problems and should be dealt with.

Put it like this.
A small minority of people in this country are murderers. We try to prevent murder and punish those responsible when it happens. However we do not punish or inconvenience the vast majority of people (who are not murderers) when trying to prevent murders / punish those responsible. Those who are innocent, are left be. Why should it be any different with football fans?

 

[balne-wonderer]

BestWestern - Do you believe that because a tiny minority of UK based Muslim's openly support Al-Qaeda then we should condemn all Muslims as terrorists and send them all the prison to protect the country from terror attacks?

Now you probably realise how stupid your comments sound.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I also find the "Enforced Travel arrangement" thing laughable and it simply is not workable anyway.

Where do you end it? Hell, i've had much more heated discussions with people who are trainspotting and tresspassing on railways then I have with opposing football fans! Should we ban all spotters because of a minority who don't stick to the rules and give everyone else a bad name?