Football

[Mcr Warrior]

How long has that been the case?

Since the mid 2000's, I believe, but happy to be corrected.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Can't argue with that, it's a lot worse when the team that didn't finish 3trd goes up.
/

Without the play-offs, the season would be effectively over by the end of March. It isn't "a lot worse" if a team that finishes lower down wins the final, it's just the way things end up sometimes. The teams finishing higher up should be going on to win, they have home advantage for the second leg and play a team that finished further down with fewer points. If they fail to beat that team they only have themselves (or occasionally some dubious refereeing calls) to blame.

 

[AlterEgo]

Right, understood.

I think that wont apply in this case though, as Luton will be relegated by then anyway.

Savage

 

[Drogba11CFC]

It amazes me that so many (not just on this forum) who have previously stated no interest in top flight football have a huge interest in stopping a team being promoted to the top flight. They deserve to be there, it's that simple.

It was the same with Winchester City last season. Firstly it was "they'll be relegated on single figures" and once we stayed up people started banging on about ground grading.

 

[Ascotroyal]

Went and saw us lose 2-0 at Sutton United in a friendly yesterday. Hoping in the next 3 weeks before the season starts that we bring in at least 10 new players otherwise we will be around the bottom of the table with the current squad.

 

[Haywain]

Went and saw us lose 2-0 at Sutton United in a friendly yesterday. Hoping in the next 3 weeks before the season starts that we bring in at least 10 new players otherwise we will be around the bottom of the table with the current squad.

Us?

 

[Harvester]

Us?

Reading! They lost 2-0 to Sutton on Saturday.

 

[156421]

The postponement is with the agreement of both the Premier League and Burnley, so there won't be any punishment. Playing behind closed doors wouldn't be possible as the works are mainly for media facilities to meet PL requirements, and those facilities are required even for a closed match.

I've noticed a lot of games being postponed/rearranged lately - quite a few have been moved from Saturday December 23rd to the evening before, which screws travelling fans. Welcome to the "new normal" which has set in since teams were allowed to arbitrarily call off games playing the covid card (Rotherham and Carlisle particularly bad for that).

 

[Butts]

Went and saw us lose 2-0 at Sutton United in a friendly yesterday. Hoping in the next 3 weeks before the season starts that we bring in at least 10 new players otherwise we will be around the bottom of the table with the current squad.

Steve Coppell took you to 8th in the Premier League many moons ago - what has gone wrong since then ?

 

[SteveM70]

I've noticed a lot of games being postponed/rearranged lately - quite a few have been moved from Saturday December 23rd to the evening before, which screws travelling fans. Welcome to the "new normal" which has set in since teams were allowed to arbitrarily call off games playing the covid card (Rotherham and Carlisle particularly bad for that).

I’m sure I read somewhere when the fixtures were announced that clubs would be given some flexibility for some Xmas fixtures.

And in the championship there are going to be a *lot* of changes because of the ridiculous new Sky deal they’ve signed. These are not going to be fan friendly

 

[156421]

I’m sure I read somewhere when the fixtures were announced that clubs would be given some flexibility for some Xmas fixtures.

And in the championship there are going to be a *lot* of changes because of the ridiculous new Sky deal they’ve signed. These are not going to be fan friendly

Crewe vs. Barrow has been moved to such a Friday on December 22nd, probably on the assumption that away fans can't make it, but it looks as though it will actually be possible to get back by train, albeit not arriving at BIF until 00:34 the next day.

 

[DarloRich]

i don't want to be that guy but any ground you have to enter via someone's kitchen, yard and outhouse is not a premier league ground! There are plenty of clubs lower down the pyramid prevented from taking up thier higher position because of the dreaded ground grading rules.

Luton have got lucky that thier promotion was to the PL and not the Northern Premier League!

PS - what is the status with the proposed new ground?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I've noticed a lot of games being postponed/rearranged lately - quite a few have been moved from Saturday December 23rd to the evening before, which screws travelling fans. Welcome to the "new normal" which has set in since teams were allowed to arbitrarily call off games playing the covid card (Rotherham and Carlisle particularly bad for that).

When Rotherham ended up with a fixture pile-up at the end of the 2020-21 season, it didn't exactly give them an advantage...

Steve Coppell took you to 8th in the Premier League many moons ago - what has gone wrong since then ?

Think they have one of the worst owners in the league... though he does have one of the best names: Dai Yongge! Really hope his friends all call him "Live Fast" or "Only the Good"

i don't want to be that guy but any ground you have to enter via someone's kitchen, yard and outhouse is not a premier league ground! There are plenty of clubs lower down the pyramid prevented from taking up thier higher position because of the dreaded ground grading rules.

Luton have got lucky that thier promotion was to the PL and not the Northern Premier League!

PS - what is the status with the proposed new ground?

I don't think it's right that clubs have been denied promotion in the past due to non-footballing reasons (financial misdeeds notwithstanding, e.g. Swindon Town back in the day), and don't think Luton should be either. Even if they had to ground-share or play behind closed doors. It's all well and good for Sky to have specifications for media facilities, camera positions and the like... but other broadcasters manage to cope when FA Cup ties take place at non-league grounds, so it's not like it's impossible to find a workaround.

To adapt an old footballing cliché: Jeff Stelling or whoever does it now might be a decent presenter, but can he do it on a wet Tuesday night at Kenilworth Road?

 

[Haywain]

i don't want to be that guy

But you couldn't resist the chance.

any ground you have to enter via someone's kitchen, yard and outhouse is not a premier league ground!

I think you will find that in a little over a month it will be a Premier League ground.

PS - what is the status with the proposed new ground?

Detailed planning permission, essentially a formality, needs to be applied for and has been delayed by being promoted (the architects were diverted to working on the Kenilworth Road ground improvements). However, work will be accelerated by promotion and the money that goes with it and we are advised that it will commence in December of this year.

It's all well and good for Sky to have specifications for media facilities, camera positions and the like... but other broadcasters manage to cope when FA Cup ties take place at non-league grounds, so it's not like it's impossible to find a workaround.

To be fair to the Premier League (it's hard to type that!) it's about the contracts they have which govern the facilities they need. The FA Cup has different contracts and different (lesser) requirements.

 

[156421]

When Rotherham ended up with a fixture pile-up at the end of the 2020-21 season, it didn't exactly give them an advantage...

They decided to play the covid card a load of times; entirely self-inflicted. Live by the sword die by the sword. They were still at it last season with that dubiously waterlogged pitch against Cardiff.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

To be fair to the Premier League (it's hard to type that!) it's about the contracts they have which govern the facilities they need. The FA Cup has different contracts and different (lesser) requirements.

Where those contracts undermine sporting integrity, they should be null and void in my opinion.

They decided to play the covid card a load of times; entirely self-inflicted. Live by the sword die by the sword. They were still at it last season with that dubiously waterlogged pitch against Cardiff.

The waterlogged pitch last season was a farce I agree... but weren't the Covid postponements enforced by the (in my opinion unnecessary, but alas hindsight is 20-20) covid restrictions at the time? As I said, it's not like they gained anything from having to play four games in seven days at one point. The real injustice in the Championship that season was Derby County surviving thanks to their points deduction not being finalised, at the expense of Wycombe Wanderers.

 

[DarloRich]

Detailed planning permission, essentially a formality, needs to be applied for and has been delayed by being promoted (the architects were diverted to working on the Kenilworth Road ground improvements). However, work will be accelerated by promotion and the money that goes with it and we are advised that it will commence in December of this year.

that is a good news! I was worried it was stuck in development hell

But you couldn't resist the chance.

Sadly - I maintain it is lucky Luton are bring promoted to the PL and not the NPL.

I think you will find that in a little over a month it will be a Premier League ground.

it is barely fit for league football let alone PL! I get that playing at the local grounds of MK Dongs or Watford aren't an option but Luton should be playing in a proper modern ground or not playing in the PL. The away end in particular is bonkers but the home stands I have bene in are just as tight. It is a lovely old ground with bags of character but it isn't up the standards of modern top level football. We cant pretend otherwise. The fact they cant fulfil fixtures shows that!

That said I hope Luton do well. They have suffered a great deal ( perhaps not as much as Darlo but quite a bit!) and done things properly unlike the MK Dongs and without any obvious money bags owners as other clubs have. It is a great story

 

[Haywain]

it is barely fit for league football let alone PL! I get that playing at the local grounds of MK Dongs or Watford aren't an option but Luton should be playing in a proper modern ground or not playing in the PL. The away end in particular is bonkers but the home stands I have bene in are just as tight. It is a lovely old ground with bags of character but it isn't up the standards of modern top level football. We cant pretend otherwise. The fact they cant fulfil fixtures shows that!

This is ridiculous. The required ground standards will be met (and would easily be met for the Northern Premier League or similar). So to meet your "modern football" standards how old can a ground be? Should Fulham, Forest and Palace be allowed to keep their old stands for example? I guess you will have been delighted when Darlington moved from Feethams to the Arena.

The fact they cant fulfil fixtures shows that!

One match, recognising that major building work in a very short timescale has a risk of overrunning.

 

[156421]

The real injustice in the Championship that season was Derby County surviving thanks to their points deduction not being finalised, at the expense of Wycombe Wanderers.

And real injustice the previous season was Wycombe getting into the League One playoffs on points per game having previously demanded that the season should have been entirely abandoned due to safety due to the pandemic overreactions.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

And real injustice the previous season was Wycombe getting into the League One playoffs on points per game having previously demanded that the season should have been entirely abandoned due to safety due to the pandemic overreactions.

I'd forgotten about that... in that case as the saying goes, you reap what you sow!

 

[156421]

This is ridiculous. The required ground standards will be met (and would easily be met for the Northern Premier League or similar). So to meet your "modern football" standards how old can a ground be? Should Fulham, Forest and Palace be allowed to keep their old stands for example? I guess you will have been delighted when Darlington moved from Feethams to the Arena.

One match, recognising that major building work in a very short timescale has a risk of overrunning.

why can't they just play at wembley or something

 

[75A]

They'd never be able to afford Wembley + the crowds they get even if playing @ Wembley would be comical.

 

[DarloRich]

I guess you will have been delighted when Darlington moved from Feethams to the Arena.

Loved it! ( not) although it was part of plan for the future that ultimately turned into a nightmare. In an alternative world Darlo are moving into the premier league after Reynolds delivered his plan/actual had a plan. Would we be able to do that at Feethams? ABSOLUTLY not. it could never be brought up to the required standard. That said, did we need to move form Feethams as item one in our journey? Absolutely not!

IF the club was to move up the leagues ( as suggested by Reynolds) then we needed a new ground. The site wasn't big enough. Feethams was a fine old ground for division 4 but not much else. It just couldn't be turned into a higher level ground. Building ONE modern stand nearly killed the club. It was next to the river, rented off and accessed via the cricket club, had a park at the rear of one end and houses tight against the other stand. The home end doubled as the sight screen for the cricket and so couldn't be extended. There away end was down a back alley and had no vehicular access. The toilets were a plague pit that drained into the river. I am not sure there WAS a ladies!

I was very happy when we left the Arena and went on our magical mystery tour btw. The Arena was awful. Bloody Reynolds. Although he wasn't even the worst of the owners. Reynolds was just mental. The other two.......................

One match, recognising that major building work in a very short timescale has a risk of overrunning.

One match, so far. How many is too many recognising that major building work in a very short timescale has a risk of overrunning?

it is clear the club have wonderfully overperformed hence the infrastructure lag but it is lucky the PL are being so accommodating. They could be taking a much harder line on non compliance/delayed compliance with thier grading rules.

As I have said Darlington were denied access to the NLN play offs because we lacked c.200 seats. Those seats could easily have been installed by the start of the next season but we were barred. Luton have a ground not up to standard required by the PL but have been allowed to join the PL in the expectation the work will be completed before the season starts. That is fortunate! I wish grading rules further down the pyramid were applied so kindly.

( I use Darlo as an example I know personally but there will be others)

"modern football" standards how old can a ground be? Should Fulham, Forest and Palace be allowed to keep their old stands for example?

Those grounds have all been substantially rebuilt in a way Kenilworth Road ( or Feethams) could never be.

 

[Haywain]

Those grounds have all been substantially rebuilt in a way Kenilworth Road ( or Feethams) could never be.

They all have stands that were in place in the 1960s, if not earlier.

One match, so far.

As a contingency against a short notice postponement, and agreed by all involved parties.

 

[DarloRich]

As a contingency against a short notice postponement, and agreed by all involved parties.

hopefully only one - Luton don't need ground issues to over shadow thier fantastic success.

 

[SteveM70]

I think the underlying issue here is that the jump in standards between championship and premier league is too great.

Did Luton have to do any work the summer they came up from league one?

 

[Haywain]

Did Luton have to do any work the summer they came up from league one?

Other than construction of a new gantry for the TV cameras, and possibly a minor upgrade to the floodlights, nothing was needed that I'm aware of. There have been minor changes to the ground as we've made our way up from the Conference/National League, but nothing of significance. Up until now any increase in capacity would have been nice but could never have been justified.

 

[156421]

I think the underlying issue here is that the jump in standards between championship and premier league is too great.

Lots of Championship and even League One clubs have grounds which would be up to Premier League specifications (or only minor work needed).

 

[SteveM70]

Lots of Championship and even League One clubs have grounds which would be up to Premier League specifications (or only minor work needed).

Of course, not least because lots of them have previously been in the premier league, and would at worst only have to deal with anything that was new since their last time up there. My point is that for teams coming into the championship from below, there ought to be some sort of progressive standards that gradually improve their facilities and mean that a subsequent promotion to the premier league isn't a massive shock.

 

[Rob F]

Without the play-offs, the season would be effectively over by the end of March. It isn't "a lot worse" if a team that finishes lower down wins the final, it's just the way things end up sometimes. The teams finishing higher up should be going on to win, they have home advantage for the second leg and play a team that finished further down with fewer points. If they fail to beat that team they only have themselves (or occasionally some dubious refereeing calls) to blame.

Still smarts does it?