Football

[Bantamzen]

I mean come on how much more does he have to do to allow you to show a bit of objectivity? Did you hold Cappello or Erikson to the same standards? What about Hodgson? Keegan? Taylor? Maclaren? Hoddle? Venables lost a Euro semi does he get your ire? Robson lost a world cup semi. Awful?

Just to be clear on Southgate:

2018 World Cup – 4th place
Euro 2020 – Runners up
2022 World Cup – Quarter-final
Euro 2024 – Runners up
63% win rate

He will do for me - who do you want instead?

EDIT - I will add this, because, you know, you have to state the obvious: Southgate is not a fantastic manager. He is a good manager who has done a good if unspectacular job of just chugging away and progressing in tournaments. He has been to slow to make substitutes, to slow to respond to changes in the game and is a cautious manager who doesn't take many risks. He is a good guy, all the players say positive things about him. He has improved the atmosphere around and within the England team and is always willing to take on the criticism to shield the players. He also seems to be a good modern leader with sensible honest values.

The big what if for me is the Italy game at Wembley. That was the one we should have won.

This squad of players is by far the best we've ever had, including the '66 squad in my opinion. We know we have talent all over the pitch, yet for the most part we've seen it only in brief flashes with most of the football being played like we were a National League side playing in the 3rd round of the FA Cup against a top side. The players have looked ill at ease with Southgate's tactics, often finding themselves playing roles not their natural ones to suit Southgate's preferred style. And it only just got us out of the group and through the 2nd Round. Were it not for Bellingham's overhead kick against Slovakia, we'd have been a plane home long before the final.

So watching a team under-perform so much is disappointing, because never mind the Italy game, this was the tournament that we could have won. But instead we, as you put it, chugged our way through and eventually the tactics failed at the crucial point, made all the worse because we should have built momentum after Palmer's goal but instead withdrew and invited Spain to have another go, which they duly did. There is even a story on the BBC site today headlined "England have the best squad, but not the best team", which is exactly how I see it. And under Southgate I don't see this changing, in fact we risk becoming so predicable that qualification could become trickier let alone getting to a final again.

And who would I like to take over? It's never going to happen in a million years, but Jurgen Klopp. I think he would be exactly what the England squad from an OK team of chuggers into a team not only capable of finally getting a trophy, but playing well getting there.

 

[Tetchytyke]

This squad of players is by far the best we've ever had, including the '66 squad in my opinion.

They’re good but they’re not the only good squad we’ve ever had. And they’re not the only good side at the Euros.

There are still notable weaknesses, especially at full back.

It’s a curiously English trait that fans think our players are the best in the world and should be beating everyone else 5-0.

And it only just got us out of the group and through the 2nd Round. Were it not for Bellingham's overhead kick against Slovakia, we'd have been a plane home long before the final.

We won the group and got to the final.

If my aunty had a saddle she’d be a motorbike.

 

[Bantamzen]

They’re good but they’re not the only good squad we’ve ever had. And they’re not the only good side at the Euros.

There are still notable weaknesses, especially at full back.

It’s a curiously English trait that fans think our players are the best in the world and should be beating everyone else 5-0.


We won the group and got to the final.

If my aunty had a saddle she’d be a motorbike.

England were seen as favourites across Europe, not just amongst English fans. And frankly this is pretty much the best squad we've ever had.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Good show but no cigar.

That will be the end for Southgate. Most of you will be happy with that but when your media darling Howe or Potter fails who will you blame

It’ll be like with all England managers, only ever getting the credit once they’ve been hounded out of the job and the replacement hasn’t been up to it.

I’m not sure Southgate is the one to take us to the final level, but the abuse he’s had this tournament has been utterly ridiculous. The aim in the group games, especially in the Euros, not to lose, and we won our group. The late equalisers and the late winners showed a real determination. We were just beaten in the final by the better team. It doesn’t make Southgate a failure.

So many England fans are absolute whoppers. Throwing beer at Southgate because we drew with Slovenia. Pathetic.

I’m worried about what comes next. The FA only ended up with Southgate by default. The last managers they truly properly recruited were Capello and Sam Allardyce. It took England half a decade to recover from Capello, and even then they didn’t sack him, he resigned in defence of a thug. Thankfully Allardyce got himself sacked before he could do any damage.

England were seen as favourites across Europe, not just amongst English fans

Most people had England and Spain as favourites. Which was the final two.

Spain were odds-on favourites to win last night. I know, because I stuck a tenner on a two-way acca for both Spain and Argentina to win. The £30 will help with my grumpiness.

 

[yoyothehobo]

We were very lucky to get to the final, with what is a great squad. However the selection borders on the bizarre, the team was incredibly unbalanced, had no real tactics to speak of and the starting line up was wrong. There is a crucial issue if you are only scoring goals once you have conceeded and England never looked like maintaining a spell of pressure. Kane should never started the final, clearly unfit and not only offered nothing, was detrimental to the team as he allowed the Spanish defence so much time on the ball. The Spanish had a clear philosphy and setup of how they were going to play and have been the best team by miles at this tournament.

England were uninspiring, negative and I am more disappointed in how England played this tournament than i am that we lost in the final which says a lot.

Southgate is a nice guy, the media love him, but he is tactically limited and has yet again fallen into the old england trope of trying to make players fit rather than play a system.

The football is dire and i think if we are honest we all saw this coming in the pre tourno friendlies.

I would like to have lost having been brave enough to try to win. We just werent though.

Thats why i want Southgate out. I dont care about his record, losing in finals or losing early on, hid record against higher ranked teams is abysmal.

 

[SJL2020]

Yes, Kane was poor, but the bigger problem was the midfield: Rice in particular had a shocker (in keeping with how he's played most of the tournament).

 

[DarloRich]

It’ll be like with all England managers, only ever getting the credit once they’ve been hounded out of the job and the replacement hasn’t been up to it.

I’m not sure Southgate is the one to take us to the final level, but the abuse he’s had this tournament has been utterly ridiculous. The aim in the group games, especially in the Euros, not to lose, and we won our group. The late equalisers and the late winners showed a real determination. We were just beaten in the final by the better team. It doesn’t make Southgate a failure.

So many England fans are absolute whoppers. Throwing beer at Southgate because we drew with Slovenia. Pathetic.

I’m worried about what comes next. The FA only ended up with Southgate by default. The last managers they truly properly recruited were Capello and Sam Allardyce. It took England half a decade to recover from Capello, and even then they didn’t sack him, he resigned in defence of a thug. Thankfully Allardyce got himself sacked before he could do any damage.

Agreed. I don't think Southgate can take the team any further and i think this will be the end of his tenure. The brain rotted talksport views of many England fans is maddening. Can they not remember Iceland?!

We were very lucky to get to the final, with what is a great squad. However the selection borders on the bizarre, the team was incredibly unbalanced, had no real tactics to speak of and the starting line up was wrong.

OK - who should be playing? What should the formation be? What tactics should we use?

I dont care about his record, losing in finals or losing early on, hid record against higher ranked teams is abysmal.

So failing to win tournaments is failure? Do you hold all the other England managers to that standard? His record against "higher ranked teams" is loosing semi or finals!

I know you don't care about his record ( which is better than any other England manager in my lifetime) but for anyone with eyes it is pretty decent

2008 Euro - didnt qualify
2010 WC - 2nd round ( thrashed by Germany)
2012 Euro - Quarter finals
2014 WC group stage
2016 Euros 0 2nd round ( Iceland FFS)

Under Southgate
2018 World Cup – 4th place
Euro 2020 – Runners up
2022 World Cup – Quarter-final
Euro 2024 – Runners up
63% win rate

The players have looked ill at ease with Southgate's tactics, often finding themselves playing roles not their natural ones to suit Southgate's preferred style

ok - how should we be playing?

And under Southgate I don't see this changing, in fact we risk becoming so predicable that qualification could become trickier let alone getting to a final again.

Do you agree his record is pretty good if not perfect? If not, could you point to one of the England manager of the last 30 years who has performed to your standards?

 

[Tetchytyke]

We were very lucky to get to the final

Nothing lucky about any of England’s wins in the knockout stages.

However the selection borders on the bizarre, the team was incredibly unbalanced, had no real tactics to speak of and the starting line up was wrong.

Who would you have picked instead, and in what formation?

 

[dangie]

It’s a curiously English trait that fans think our players are the best in the world and should be beating everyone else 5-0.

Agreed, that ship sailed many years ago. If there was a World Xl I’d guess there wouldn’t be an English player in it. To say this is the best England squad ever is a meaningless claim. It may be good on paper, but the problem is you play on grass.

Any comparison with the 1966 World Cup team is also meaningless. Back then we did have world class players, Banks, Moore, Charlton to name but three, but most of all Alf Ramsey got them to play as a team. It’s teams which win matches, not individuals.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

People seem to feel that England had the best squad, but they underestimate how good the Spanish squad was.

 

[AlterEgo]

They’re good but they’re not the only good squad we’ve ever had. And they’re not the only good side at the Euros.

There are still notable weaknesses, especially at full back.

It’s a curiously English trait that fans think our players are the best in the world and should be beating everyone else 5-0.

Indeed. Spain were the best side in the tournament from the moment they got off the plane. We had no right to expect to win the competition.

Who would you have picked instead, and in what formation?

I'd have dropped Kane. Sorry but he was clearly not fully fit and offered little going forward. Not his fault, but we looked a different prospect with Watkins and Palmer.

 

[Tetchytyke]

If there was a World Xl I’d guess there wouldn’t be an English player in it.

I think there would be, there's not a country in the world who wouldn't take Bellingham. Saka too.

But I agree: the argument this is the "best team ever" and should be winning everything is ridiculous. Midfield is good, up front would be better if Kane had been fit, but defence is still a weak spot. Guehi did really well, and will be moving to a big club in the very near future, but England still don't really have a left-back. I like Pickford a lot (mostly because he's an ex-Bantam) and getting so many clean sheets for that Everton side shows real talent, but there's always a mistake in him.

Yes, Kane was poor, but the bigger problem was the midfield: Rice in particular had a shocker (in keeping with how he's played most of the tournament).

Rice looked shattered after the season. But Rice lost the ball so much because he didn't have an options further up the pitch to pass to, so he ended up getting caught in possession.

I think England missed Rashford, to be honest. Someone fast down the left. I'd have dropped Foden and played Gordon. Foden and Bellingham were trying to do the same thing in the same part of the pitch. Foden is good, really good, but Bellingham is better.

I'd have dropped Kane. Sorry but he was clearly not fully fit and offered little going forward. Not his fault, but we looked a different prospect with Watkins and Palmer.

I agree with that. He was clearly carrying something injury-wise. You don't score 40-odd in the Bundesliga playing like a statue so clearly there was something wrong. Southgate needed to be stronger in resting him. I'd have started Toney with Watkins coming on as an impact sub.

Midfield is tougher. I'd have dropped Foden and played Gordon. We needed the speed down the wings with Kane dropping deep. Much as Southgate correctly left him at home, Rashford would have done well in this side. I'm not sure I'd have dropped Mainoo for Palmer, again I think Palmer does better coming on as an impact sub.

It needed to be one of Foden or Bellingham. And, much as Foden is good, Bellingham is better. That's been the other problem, it's almost the Gerrard-Lampard thing again.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Agreed. I don't think Southgate can take the team any further and i think this will be the end of his tenure. The brain rotted talksport views of many England fans is maddening. Can they not remember Iceland?!


OK - who should be playing? What should the formation be? What tactics should we use?


So failing to win tournaments is failure? Do you hold all the other England managers to that standard? His record against "higher ranked teams" is loosing semi or finals!

I know you don't care about his record ( which is better than any other England manager in my lifetime) but for anyone with eyes it is pretty decent

2008 Euro - didnt qualify
2010 WC - 2nd round ( thrashed by Germany)
2012 Euro - Quarter finals
2014 WC group stage
2016 Euros 0 2nd round ( Iceland FFS)

Under Southgate
2018 World Cup – 4th place
Euro 2020 – Runners up
2022 World Cup – Quarter-final
Euro 2024 – Runners up
63% win rate


ok - how should we be playing?

Do you agree his record is pretty good if not perfect? If not, could you point to one of the England manager of the last 30 years who has performed to your standards?

Where should i start. His formation was completely unbalanced with no left side attack due to having a right footed right back in Trippier playing at Left Back and sort of but not quite having Foden (who is not a left winger) playing in front of him. Our left side was constantly attacked all tournament long and offered no threat whatsoever. This allowed everyone we were playing against to have a narrow back line against England as there was no risk of an overlap/overload and ball into the box as Tripper is always going to be crossing with his right foot meaning he is going to be checking back before crossing allowing opposition players back. Having Gordon as a left sided attacker and not playing him.

Foden and Bellingham together, playing in the same space trying to do the same job just didnt work, probably because...

Kane, clearly unfit/injured and offering absolutely no attacking presence. This was clear in several games and should not have started the final. A striker should offer an out ball from the midfield, offer runs, something for the attacking players to run onto. If Kane isnt stretching the defence it just congests that entire portion of the pitch. Watkins as soon as he came on forced a change in how teams defender against England and allowed more space and options to run into.

TAA: Shoehorned into a weird, experimental midfield roll that failed spectacularly. Southgate has been manager for 8 years and he decides the first game of the tournament is when to try this sort of thing.

The entire team has no philosophy and how it wants to play, unless the answer is turgidly slow.

In the entire tournament there was one game where we scored more than one goal in 90 minutes. Considering we were in the weakest group and ended up in the easier side of the draw (and only because Denmark and Serbia played out a bore draw when we did, otherwise there was a real chance we could have finished third in the group.

3, 4, 4, 2, 3, 5, 4. Thats Englands shots on target per game in the tournament. 25 shots on target, in 6 games and another 60 minutes of extra time.

At no point in the tournament did Southgate make a tactical change to try and win a game, it was always when he had gone behind and against Slovakia we were lucky to progress with our first shot on target in the game taking us to extra time in the 93rd minute.

England were lucky not to concede 4 or maybe 5 last night. That is against a good Spain team, but they are not a patch on Spanish teams of 10 years ago, they just knew how to pick England apart with quick one touch passing. England at no point in the tournament wanted to be brave enough to attack without making sure they opposition were not all behind the ball (no chance of a counterattack), so as soon as you come up against a team who can play through the lines you fall apart quickly.

I am grateful what Southgate has done, but he has reached a ceiling of his ability. Every time he comes up against a big team France, Italy, Spain there is this unwillingness to take risks.

Is he better than Capello, McLaren and Hodgson. Yes.

He has steadied the ship, but this tournament has shown he is being left behind tactically (similar thing is happening to Italy, Belgium and Portugal) and its time to take a risk and push on (ironic as his teams dont do that either)

 

[Bantamzen]

ok - how should we be playing?

Well for a start further up the field, we've been squeezed by everyone we've played and its forcing way too many mistakes. We should be looking to make the press way more often so that players like Kane don't end up isolated and ineffective all game. And frankly if Kane isn't fit, we have other options.

Do you agree his record is pretty good if not perfect? If not, could you point to one of the England manager of the last 30 years who has performed to your standards?

It is, but as others have said he may have taken us as far as he can. I'd like to see us actually win a tournament at some point, but I'm not convinced Southgate has got what it takes to raise the squad up to this.

 

[SteveP29]

I'm looking forward to the new season because we won't have those VAR checks when goals go in, and the even more frustrating 'possible penalty' checks.

I can only presume you're a Sheffield United, Burnley or Luton Town fan then?

 

[Haywain]

I can only presume you're a Sheffield United, Burnley or Luton Town fan then?

I would think that's pretty easy to work out, looking at the avatar on my posts.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I would think that's pretty easy to work out, looking at the avatar on my posts.

Damn Burnley fan....

 

[Haywain]

Damn Burnley fan....

I'm really curious what you're seeing when you look at my avatar.

 

[yoyothehobo]

I'm really curious what you're seeing when you look at my avatar.

A hat worn by someone who is fed up of the rain in Burnley

 

[gazzak]

Agreed. I don't think Southgate can take the team any further and i think this will be the end of his tenure. The brain rotted talksport views of many England fans is maddening. Can they not remember Iceland?!


OK - who should be playing? What should the formation be? What tactics should we use?


So failing to win tournaments is failure? Do you hold all the other England managers to that standard? His record against "higher ranked teams" is loosing semi or finals!

I know you don't care about his record ( which is better than any other England manager in my lifetime) but for anyone with eyes it is pretty decent

2008 Euro - didnt qualify
2010 WC - 2nd round ( thrashed by Germany)
2012 Euro - Quarter finals
2014 WC group stage
2016 Euros 0 2nd round ( Iceland FFS)

Under Southgate
2018 World Cup – 4th place
Euro 2020 – Runners up
2022 World Cup – Quarter-final
Euro 2024 – Runners up
63% win rate


ok - how should we be playing?

Do you agree his record is pretty good if not perfect? If not, could you point to one of the England manager of the last 30 years who has performed to your standards?

So what has Southgate won? As much silverware as Sven.

 

[al78]

It’s a curiously English trait that fans think our players are the best in the world and should be beating everyone else 5-0.

Part of British (or English) exceptionalism I suspect. All countries have exceptionalist attitudes to an extent but for historical reasons it is particularly strong in the UK. In reality, there is a disconnect between how a country sees itself and how others see it.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Quite a few people on our towns F*cebook group have been asking where they can watch the Euro final on a big screen. I don’t understand why they need to ask the question. Just stick your chair two feet away from the telly

They probably want to watch in the company of other like-minded people and throw beer in the air (or get soaked with said beer, as appropriate) when England score.

Indeed. The BBC lunchtime news, just now, has been showing footage from yesterday evening of various mass gatherings of numpties giving each other beer shampoos. Must be a rather slow news day.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Let's look at the thirty years of hurt since 1996:
1998 - last 16 (2nd in group)
2000 - group stage (3rd in group)
2002 - quarter final (2nd in group behind Sweden)
2004 - quarter final (2nd in group behind France)
2006 - quarter final (won group)
2008 - did not qualify
2010 - last 16 (2nd in group behind the USA)
2012 - quarter final (won group)
2014 - group stage (last in group)
2016 - last 16 (2nd in group behind Wales; knocked out by Iceland)
2018 - fourth place (2nd in group)
2020 - runner-up (won group)
2022 - quarter final (won group)
2024 - runner-up (won group)

So it's clear that Southgate has moved England on quite a bit, especially compared to the period 2006-2016. That 2008 squad that didn't qualify included Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Cole, and Rooney.

I'm as disappointed as anyone we lost in the final but, goodness me, let's have some perspective. We lost in the final.

 

[NSEWonderer]

These results over the last six years show that Southgate has done well but has reached his ceiling. Luis de la Fuente has only been a manager for two years with the Spanish national team. The Spanish squad has also seen significant player rotation since 2018 compared to the 2024 squad, with only one or two players, as far as I can remember, actually starting in the lineup between the two squads.

Meanwhile, during the same period, we’ve had Southgate, with at least four players: Stones, Walker, Kane, and Pickford all starting for international lineups since 2018. Yet, Luis has managed to get his relatively new team to gel and perform better as a unit than the English squad has.

Southgate has made very questionable in-game decisions and clearly has favorites that consistently make the starting lineup, which can't continue. On paper, he is one of our best England managers in recent times, but the list of managers before him isn’t exactly impressive and shouldn’t be the metric for justifying his continued tenure. In my opinion, he has reached his limit.

Now do I believe he will go? Not really, he'll most likely stay and again we hit another great achievement of runner up or quarter finalist but if we did ever get a new England Manager i'd not be surprised if Potter, Rodgers or Howe got it.

 

[scarby]

If only England had just had the simple sense to take the advice of all the armchair critics, they would have surely roared to the final with dominant displays playing samba football before a glorious display of mastery in the final itself.

 

[d9009alycidon]

One up in Scotland, perhaps?

Well we were the only team to beat Spain! Spain record in Qualifying/ Final was P17 W16 D0 L1. That sole loss being a solid 2-0 win for Scotland at Hampden.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Let's look at the thirty years of hurt since 1996:
1998 - last 16 (2nd in group)
2000 - group stage (3rd in group)
2002 - quarter final (2nd in group behind Sweden)
2004 - quarter final (2nd in group behind France)
2006 - quarter final (won group)
2008 - did not qualify
2010 - last 16 (2nd in group behind the USA)
2012 - quarter final (won group)
2014 - group stage (last in group)
2016 - last 16 (2nd in group behind Wales; knocked out by Iceland)
2018 - fourth place (2nd in group)
2020 - runner-up (won group)
2022 - quarter final (won group)
2024 - runner-up (won group)

So it's clear that Southgate has moved England on quite a bit, especially compared to the period 2006-2016. That 2008 squad that didn't qualify included Terry, Ferdinand, Lampard, Gerrard, Cole, and Rooney.

I'm as disappointed as anyone we lost in the final but, goodness me, let's have some perspective. We lost in the final.

Has he though?
1998 - Lost to Argentina
2000 - 3rd in group behind Portugal and Romania
2002 - Beat Denmark 3-0, lost in quarters to eventual winners Brazil 2-1
2004 - Lost on penalties to runners up Portugal
2006 - Beat Ecuador 1-0, lost on penalties to Portugal in Quarters
2008 - Didnt qualify from quali group behind Croatia and Russia
2010 - Lost 4-1 to Germany
2012 - Lost to finalists Italy on Penalties
2014 - Bottom of group
2016 - Iceland debacle
2018 - Lost to Belgium in group, beat colombia on pens, beat Sweden 2-0, lost to Croatia in extra time, lost to Belgium (again) in 3rd place place off
2020 - beat croatia and czechia 1-0 in group, 0-0 v scotland, beat Germany 2-0 (arguably the best performance under Southgate), beat Ukraine 4-0, beat Denmark in extra time, lost to Italy on Penalties in the final
2022 - Beat senegal 3-0, lost to France 2-1
2024 - Beat serbia 1-0. drew denmark 1-1. drew slovenia 0-0, beat slovakia 2-1 AET, beat switzerland on penalties, beat the netherlands 2-1, lost in the final to Spain.

Since 1998 the only "big" team we have beaten in knockout football was Germany in 2020.
We have been knocked out by Argentina, Brazil, Portugal (Twice), Germany, Italy (Twice), in 2018 we lost to Belgium twice and Croatia, France and Spain.

In that time we have beaten Argentina in the group stages once, Croatia once and Germany twice (once knockout, once in group).

In this tournament we struggled against Slovenia (ranked 57th), Slovakia (45th) and Serbia (33rd).

What real progress have we made other than steadying the ship after 2014/16?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Since 1998 the only "big" team we have beaten in knockout football was Germany in 2020.

Are the Netherlands not a "big" team then?

What real progress have we made other than steadying the ship?

We've gone from not qualifying (2008), losing to Iceland (20160 and finishing bottom of the group (2012) to beating the Germans and the Dutch in knock-out football.

Southgate has made very questionable in-game decisions

Like what, putting Watkins and Palmer on in the semi (Palmer assist, Watkins goal) and the same again in the final?

Kane's not been fit, obviously, and you have to question whether resting him earlier would have helped. But "too old, too slow, past it" Harry Kane's just scored 44 goals in 45 starts for Bayern Munich this season. It's a braver man than me who drops him for Ivan Toney, who's scored 4 goals for Brentford since coming back from suspension.

 

[NSEWonderer]

Kane's not been fit, obviously, and you have to question whether resting him earlier would have helped. But "too old, too slow, past it" Harry Kane's just scored 44 goals in 45 starts for Bayern Munich this season. It's a braver man than me who drops him for Ivan Toney, who's scored 4 goals for Brentford since coming back from suspension.

The same Bundesliga in which Munich had 11 league wins in a row before Kane joined, the league isn't exactly hard to score in for someone like Kane and even then Xabi Alonso's team walked that league as invincibles. But that 44 goals in 45 starts stat actually shows then that when the levels change up he hasn't been able to produce in respect to England "in this" campaign. He's been poor since group stages, so It shouldn't take a braver man to give him a rest here and there and start some other strikers at least in the group stages if you're not going to do it in the knockouts which is understandable.

It was a more braver decision for Southgate to play TAA in midfield on some trial thing which didn't work out well, giving Kane a rest for some players that are more fit wouldn't have been more of a risk than that

 

[jon0844]

As a Spurs fan I loved every minute of Kane scoring goal after goal, but I don't believe he should have been played at any cost in the Champions League final as he wasn't match fit, and he should have been big enough to admit that. But of course, he must have thought he HAD to play - it was his one chance. Fans were of course split, but I think hindsight proves he would have been better on the bench, maybe brought on nearer the end of the game to get some play time.

I think the same applies to the Euros, where he was really not effective (and I know he was joint first with 3 goals, but that's more a sign of how surprising it is that nobody else scored more) and there's little chance that he was simply going to get served a ball and tap it in. Spain shut him down, as did other teams, and he really needs someone alongside him. Plus he can't fall back as he's not good the speed he used to.

In the last year with Spurs, he got loads of goals, but in games we still lost or drew! And he scored loads of games in Germany, but for what end?

He's obviously getting older, so he's not likely to get any faster so he will need to adapt to that fact and perhaps not be considered the essential number 9 that plays no matter what. I am glad the manager saw this and made changes in the last two games, but it was perhaps too late.

At Spurs, we're now seeing the same issues with Son. He's a hero and his achievements will never be forgotten, but we do need to start looking at a plan B.