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Formula 1

357

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You could argue that had Piquet jr not deliberately crashed his car, Massa would have won that race and the 2008 title.
If that season happened now, and you swap Massa for Lewis and Lewis for Max, we would be getting told that Glock slowed down on purpose to gift Max the championship.

I watched the race yesterday in a pub in central Europe. It was such a breath of fresh air compared to the UK. I had a Red Bull shirt on and met some Alfa Romeo fans who started drinking with us, later some Ferrari fans brought us some drinks and we all had a good laugh and good time. There were people from every team and everyone was enjoying watching the race.

Oh, and for the last laps of the race, all of us in the entire venue, including the Ferrari fans, were singing...

"There was something in the air that night
The stars were bright, Fernando"

edited because I messed up the names of the drivers!
 
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Efini92

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If that season happened now, and you swap Massa for Lewis and Glock for Max, we would be getting told that Glock slowed down on purpose to gift Max the championship.

I watched the race yesterday in a pub in central Europe. It was such a breath of fresh air compared to the UK. I had a Red Bull shirt on and met some Alfa Romeo fans who started drinking with us, later some Ferrari fans brought us some drinks and we all had a good laugh and good time. There were people from every team and everyone was enjoying watching the race.

Oh, and for the last laps of the race, all of us in the entire venue, including the Ferrari fans, were singing...

"There was something in the air that night
The stars were bright, Fernando"
I blame drive to survive, as good as it is bringing in a new generation of fans. It’s turned F1 into football, you have your team and everyone else is the enemy.
Bring back the old days where everyone got on and it was a lot cheaper to go to a race weekend (and you could buy tickets last minute).
 

DarloRich

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I watched the race yesterday in a pub in central Europe. It was such a breath of fresh air compared to the UK. I had a Red Bull shirt on and met some Alfa Romeo fans who started drinking with us, later some Ferrari fans brought us some drinks and we all had a good laugh and good time. There were people from every team and everyone was enjoying watching the race.
As it should be - i am not really tribal about F1. I don't really support a team or a driver. I like the sport, the competition, the spectacle ( which you don't really get on TV imo. It looks great on TV but at the track you feel it) and particularly the technology battle but the thing with Hamilton didn't sit well. It wasn't sporting and Red Bull often seem to be poor winners. Both things us as British people dislike!
Bring back the old days where everyone got on and it was a lot cheaper to go to a race weekend (and you could buy tickets last minute).
What old day was that? 1957? Every GP I have been to in the last 30 years has cost a FORTUNE. It is cheaper and easier to fly abroad to see the races than get to Silverstone.
 

Efini92

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What old day was that? 1957? Every GP I have been to in the last 30 years has cost a FORTUNE. It is cheaper and easier to fly abroad to see the races than get to Silverstone.
Ha ha I’m not quite that old. I must admit I haven’t been to silverstone for years. Monza was the circuit I liked to go to, but it’s gone very expensive since 2019.
 

DarloRich

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Ha ha I’m not quite that old. I must admit I haven’t been to silverstone for years. Monza was the circuit I liked to go to, but it’s gone very expensive since 2019.
Monza is fantastic. I like Spa also. ( and my brother claims to have driven home to MK quicker from Spa than Silverstone!)
Zanvoort is on the list but covid has really knocked back travel and it is getting harder to justify the expense in the current climate. Silverstone is just SO expensive that i cant afford or justify it.

I think I would rather do Le Mans tbh.
 

RailWonderer

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Absolutely - Red Bull stole that championship or at the very least laundered stolen goods after the FIA stole it! Hamilton had won that title and in doing so driven half a season brilliantly and wrenched it away from Red Bull. He fended off every obvious Verstappen ramming attempt and stayed out of trouble to lead going into the last few laps of the season with the race in the bag baring a technical failure or a miracle. The FIA gave Red Bull their miracle by making up the rules on the spot. Take nothing away from Red Bull last season, they were imperious but the season before they lucked out massively! We know that and they know that.

Hamilton should have 8 titles and Verstappen one. Verstappen should have one wonderful title and no doubt a second this year but only one title.

Also they cheated last season and got a way with a slap on the wrist!

EDIT - nothing will or should change but we all know how lucky Red Bull were to win that title. I am no fan of Hamilton but he was robbed and that just isn't on
Agreed. Verstappen deserves his last title but not the 2021 title (although he still drove phenomenally). It just reminds me how good Charlie Whiting was after over two decades in the sport. He had the respect of many in F1 and would never have let that ride. It either should've ended under the safety car or the lapped cars should never have been allowed to unlap and overtake but Masi caved into the pressures of the sport and for that reason he was rightly fired.
 

357

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Agreed. Verstappen deserves his last title but not the 2021 title (although he still drove phenomenally). It just reminds me how good Charlie Whiting was after over two decades in the sport. He had the respect of many in F1 and would never have let that ride. It either should've ended under the safety car or the lapped cars should never have been allowed to unlap and overtake but Masi caved into the pressures of the sport and for that reason he was rightly fired.
Myself, everyone I was with at the time, and since most of the professionals at the track have all said they expected the race to be red flagged.

A red flag would have been the best option in my opinion, since for some reason we still can't simply let the lapped cars drop back to the rear of the pack.

A red flag and restart would have resulted in a true, fair, and epic finale to an amazing season.
 

Broucek

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I blame drive to survive, as good as it is bringing in a new generation of fans. It’s turned F1 into football, you have your team and everyone else is the enemy.
Bring back the old days where everyone got on and it was a lot cheaper to go to a race weekend (and you could buy tickets last minute).
Right. It gets soooooo boring to read the partisan "Crashstappen" or "Sir Lulu" stuff from the clueless fanboys
 

Mogster

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15 years ago I had genuine concerns about the future of the sport. It was hard to see how it could continue to exist against a background of environmental concerns and sustainability. More worryingly the sport was watched almost exclusively by middle aged white blokes, kids didn’t watch F1 and it seemed unlikely they ever would. “Kids are concerned about the environment, kids don’t want to drive cars even” etc etc. However credit where it’s due Liberty have turned this around somehow, in startling fashion. Friends now talk about their kids watching Premiership football… and F1, it’s an amazing turnaround which I still struggle to comprehend.

Liberty’s D2S exists to attract new fans, fans from outside the usual motorsports demographic. It appears to be very successful at attracting younger viewers who often cite D2S as their entry point into the sport. Although I watch D2S I accept it’s not aimed at a 50 year old male that‘s watched pretty much every race since 1985…

Certain drivers have always attracted fans from outside the usual motorsports crowd. James Hunt, Mansell, Schumacher, Hamilton, now Verstappen. It always causes concern among the hard core motorsports fraternity but in reality F1 would struggle to exist as it is without these injections of media attention.

Many of the repetitive postings you see online are either from people who get off on trolling or are obsessives. There are places online where that sort of stuff isn‘t tolerated too much. Anyone using silly names for the drivers gets a warning then a ban for instance.
 

Efini92

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Monza is fantastic. I like Spa also. ( and my brother claims to have driven home to MK quicker from Spa than Silverstone!)
Zanvoort is on the list but covid has really knocked back travel and it is getting harder to justify the expense in the current climate. Silverstone is just SO expensive that i cant afford or justify it.

I think I would rather do Le Mans tbh.
I was toying with Zandvoort, but i found it almost impossible to find tickets, the ones that were available were extortionate.
I’ve always fancied the Le Mans classic.
It’s a shame F1 don’t visit some of the great circuits in USA, would love to see a race at Sebring or Laguna Seca.
 

Mogster

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I’d love to see F1 back at Watkins Glen if only once. I don’t see it as more unsuitable than Imola, Zandvoort, Mugello, it’s probably less dangerous than Jeddah. Watkins is a fantastic little circuit and one of the few places in the US with real F1 history. Traditional US F1 fans would absolutely love it. Also upstate New York is relatively accessible from Europe via the megatropolis.

Liberty should buy Watkins and upgrade the facilities, Charlie Whiting inspected the track for the FIA just before he died and said basically it was F1 ready. If Zandvoort can be made acceptable then so could Watkins. Yes I know it won’t happen… Watkins is in the middle of nowhere and Liberty is only interested in prawn sandwich eaters… I can still dream…
 

Bungle73

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Do we think that Alonso would be heaping such gushing praise (and saying very little negative about the collision) on Stroll if he wasn't the boss's son? :s
 

Efini92

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I’d love to see F1 back at Watkins Glen if only once. I don’t see it as more unsuitable than Imola, Zandvoort, Mugello, it’s probably less dangerous than Jeddah. Watkins is a fantastic little circuit and one of the few places in the US with real F1 history. Traditional US F1 fans would absolutely love it. Also upstate New York is relatively accessible from Europe via the megatropolis.

Liberty should buy Watkins and upgrade the facilities, Charlie Whiting inspected the track for the FIA just before he died and said basically it was F1 ready. If Zandvoort can be made acceptable then so could Watkins. Yes I know it won’t happen… Watkins is in the middle of nowhere and Liberty is only interested in prawn sandwich eaters… I can still dream…
Watkins Glen would be a great addition to the calendar, much better than the street circuits they are churning out.
 

bspahh

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I was just thinking the same. Then Martin Brundle & co could recount the story of Gilles Villeneuve in the rain to a whole new audience

This is a quote from Nigel Roebuck's wonderful Grand Prix Greats (1986), Patrick Stephens Ltd, Wellingborough

Qualifying in the rain at the 1979 US Grand Prix at Watkins Glen, New York

A friend of mine in America sent me a cassette a while ago. On it is the sound of a lone racing car, unmistakably a Ferrari flat-12, and its clearly audible all the way round the lap. There is a lot of wheelspin - you can hear the revs abruptly scream out of every turn - and then the volume builds until the car swishes by in a welter of spray. He taped it during the first afternoon of practice at Watkins Glen in 1979, when conditions were as bad as I have ever seen at a race circuit. In places the track was flooded, and only eight drivers ventured out. One of those was Scheckter, who was fastest behind team mate Villeneuve. Eleven seconds behind ...The tape is of course Gilles, and it revived memories of a day when we forgot the wintry rain until he came in, the Ferrari breathless and steaming. In the pits the other drivers, aghast, had giggled nervously every time he skittered by at 160 mph. "Why do we bother? He's different from the rest of us," Jacques Laffite said. "On another level ..."
"I scared myself rigid that day", Jody remembered. "I thought I had to be quickest. Then I saw Gilles's time and - I still don't really understand how it was possible. Eleven seconds !" "Motor racing was a romantic thing for him, you see." Scheckter went on. "We were close friends, doing the same job for the same team, but we had completely opposite attitudes to it. My preoccupation was keeping myself alive, but Gilles had to be the fastest on every lap - even in testing. He was the fastest racing driver the world has ever seen. If he could come back and live his life again, I think he would do exactly the same - and with the same love."
 

JD2168

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How have Aston taken such a gigantic step forward - i sincerely hope they can keep it up all season as it will make it very interesting and shake things up.
Aston Martin have signed Dan Fallowes & Eric Blondin from Red Bull & Mercedes. They also have more development & wind tunnel time than the higher teams as per the cost cap rules & they have Fernando Alonso who is always pushing for the best result.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Aston Martin have signed Dan Fallowes & Eric Blondin from Red Bull & Mercedes. They also have more development & wind tunnel time than the higher teams as per the cost cap rules & they have Fernando Alonso who is always pushing for the best result.
arghh thanks for that so guess that allows that more opportuinty to optimise the package although must mean RB are either so much cleverer if other teams can't achieve same outcome. Have to say his overtaking moves were tremedous yesterday and am looking forward to a run with RBs at some point i hope.
 

Cloud Strife

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Absolutely - Red Bull stole that championship or at the very least laundered stolen goods after the FIA stole it! Hamilton had won that title and in doing so driven half a season brilliantly and wrenched it away from Red Bull. He fended off every obvious Verstappen ramming attempt and stayed out of trouble to lead going into the last few laps of the season with the race in the bag baring a technical failure or a miracle. The FIA gave Red Bull their miracle by making up the rules on the spot. Take nothing away from Red Bull last season, they were imperious but the season before they lucked out massively! We know that and they know that.

Hamilton should have 8 titles and Verstappen one. Verstappen should have one wonderful title and no doubt a second this year but only one title.

Also they cheated last season and got a way with a slap on the wrist!

EDIT - nothing will or should change but we all know how lucky Red Bull were to win that title. I am no fan of Hamilton but he was robbed and that just isn't on

Couldn't agree more with this. I'm a McLaren fan at heart, so I had no dog in this fight, but this was not the way to end a championship that had been so close throughout the season. I don't get angry over sports, but I was absolutely livid over this. If the race had restarted with Max having one lap to get through the field, I could have agreed with the outcome no matter what: Lewis would still have had to make the most of those worn tyres, and Max would have had to find a way past at least one driver who would have had every interest in stopping him from doing so.

I have to say one thing: Max will always be tainted by that race. Had he done the right thing and let Lewis win, he would go down in history for an incredible act of sportsmanship. I understand why he didn't, but this was a moment where he could have given himself a place in racing immorality by doing the right thing rather than taking a very cheap win. I don't think anyone thinks that Max won his first championship cleanly, and even die hard Red Bull fans always sound very sheepish about it.

The sheer bewilderment of the commentary at the time said it all, they had no idea what was going on.

I think Lewis also showed himself to be a true gentleman in that final lap. He could have taken Max out on several occasions, but he raced fairly.

It's just such a pity that Masi created a very unequal final lap for no real reason. If he planned to do this from the beginning, then it shouldn't have been rocket science to contact both Horner and Toto to propose that both drivers pit for soft tyres and that they will restart 1-2 for a single lap.

But I've always wondered: why are these pit stops even allowed? Wouldn't it be much more logical if the pit lane was closed as soon as the safety car is officially sent out?
 
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birchesgreen

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I have to say one thing: Max will always be tainted by that race. Had he done the right thing and let Lewis win, he would go down in history for an incredible act of sportsmanship. I understand why he didn't, but this was a moment where he could have given himself a place in racing immorality by doing the right thing rather than taking a very cheap win. I don't think anyone thinks that Max won his first championship cleanly, and even die hard Red Bull fans always sound very sheepish about it.
If he had done that he should have retired immediately, being an F1 driver or indeed any kind of professional sportsman wouldn't be for him.
 

357

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If he had done that he should have retired immediately, being an F1 driver or indeed any kind of professional sportsman wouldn't be for him.
Absolutely agree. Nice guys don't win championships.

Look how many people hated Seb when he was champ, hated Fernando when he was champ, etc...

Couldn't agree more with this. I'm a McLaren fan at heart, so I had no dog in this fight, but this was not the way to end a championship that had been so close throughout the season. I don't get angry over sports, but I was absolutely livid over this. If the race had restarted with Max having one lap to get through the field, I could have agreed with the outcome no matter what: Lewis would still have had to make the most of those worn tyres, and Max would have had to find a way past at least one driver who would have had every interest in stopping him from doing so.

I have to say one thing: Max will always be tainted by that race. Had he done the right thing and let Lewis win, he would go down in history for an incredible act of sportsmanship. I understand why he didn't, but this was a moment where he could have given himself a place in racing immorality by doing the right thing rather than taking a very cheap win. I don't think anyone thinks that Max won his first championship cleanly, and even die hard Red Bull fans always sound very sheepish about it.

The sheer bewilderment of the commentary at the time said it all, they had no idea what was going on.

I think Lewis also showed himself to be a true gentleman in that final lap. He could have taken Max out on several occasions, but he raced fairly.

It's just such a pity that Masi created a very unequal final lap for no real reason. If he planned to do this from the beginning, then it shouldn't have been rocket science to contact both Horner and Toto to propose that both drivers pit for soft tyres and that they will restart 1-2 for a single lap.

But I've always wondered: why are these pit stops even allowed? Wouldn't it be much more logical if the pit lane was closed as soon as the safety car is officially sent out?

Your anger really needs to be directed at the FIA and not at Red Bull. Masi had a track record of not dealing with pressure well and it manifested itself that night.
 

Efini92

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I see leclerc is set to take a 10 place grid penalty this weekend. It doesn’t bode well that Ferrari have used up all his control electronics for the season already. :(
 

DelW

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If he had done that he should have retired immediately, being an F1 driver or indeed any kind of professional sportsman wouldn't be for him.

Absolutely agree. Nice guys don't win championships.
As M Schumacher senior proved - for him and his ilk the end justified the means, one reason I regarded him as an excellent driver but a very poor sportsman.

It was very different in an earlier era of F1 though, as drivers like Peter Collins, Mike Hawthorn, Stirling Moss, Jim Clark and others demonstrated. Of course it was a sport then, not a money-making machine for multi-millionaire drivers and American media companies.
 

D365

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I believe they acquired some engineers who were formerly at Red Bull, and clearly haven’t forgotten how their old car worked.
The tabloids seemed to suggest Red Bull trying to argue that their former engineers shouldn't be allowed to take their brains with them. (not that they were complaining when they recruited ex-Mercedes PU engineers)
 

Tetchytyke

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The tabloids seemed to suggest Red Bull trying to argue that their former engineers shouldn't be allowed to take their brains with them. (not that they were complaining when they recruited ex-Mercedes PU engineers)
Red Bull are always whingeing about something.

The simple solution is to put a whopping great domestic horticulture clause in employment contracts.
 

JD2168

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Lewis Hamilton has parted company with his trainer Angela Cullen after 7 years. She was regularly at his side whilst he was at the circuit.
 

357

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Thats big to be honest, i wonder whats happened there?
Maybe she couldn't deal with any more of his ridiculous outfits :lol:

In all seriousness though, I think things could change in his performance now, she was the glue holding together a very difficult problem child. I hope for her that this has happened for her own reasons and not because of anything less desirable.

Toto Wolf
"Angela was part of the gang for a long time," Wolff commented to media, including RacingNews365.com.

"I think in every team, whether that is his close circle, or also in the wider group, this is not a static situation that you can freeze, because we all develop as people, we develop as an organisation and if things don't work out anymore, then we need to be honest about it and then bring change.

"Angela will always be a mascot of the team. She's the only one who has a louder voice than a starting car. But, you know, if this is what he decides, we will always absolutely support him, whatever direct direction he wants to take."
 
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Flying Snail

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Maybe she couldn't deal with any more of his ridiculous outfits :lol:

In all seriousness though, I think things could change in his performance now, she was the glue holding together a very difficult problem child. I hope for her that this has happened for her own reasons and not because of anything less desirable.

I can well imagine that Lewis cruising to GOAT status in the most dominant car in F1 history was a much more pleasant person to be around than Lewis sulking because he isn't getting victories served to him on a platter.
 

birchesgreen

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I'm thinking there is more to it, if she just decided to have a change of career she'd have done that at the end of last season i'd have thought.
 

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