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Formula 1

sannox

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1 Mar 2016
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There were dominant years 2014-2020 but I don’t feel it was as one sided as many suggest.

I get where you are coming from but it is often easier to look back and find positives. I find both the current era and the Mercedes one a hard watch and I couldn't buy in to Rosberg / Hamilton the same way as when there was the team rivalry at play.

Last year however was the worst season since 2002 for dominance.
 
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Mogster

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So, I did some digging on this, and I found out how Red Bull is actually structured as a company.

The company that controls Red Bull (the brand), the Austrian registered Red Bull GmbH, is owned 51% by the Thai Chalerm Yoovidhya and 49% by Mark Mateschitz, the son of Dietrich Mateschitz. So, while at first glance, the Thai side of the operation always had control of the company, in fact, Dietrich Mateschitz had an agreement that gave him 51% of the voting rights in the company.

So, in the UK, Red Bull Racing Ltd (i.e. the company that came from the original Stewart F1 team and operates the F1 team known as Red Bull) has two directors: Horner and Helmut Marko, with Horner as the "director" (i.e. de facto CEO) and Marko as a board member. That company in turn is owned by Red Bull Technology Ltd, which is the parent company for all of Red Bull's motorsport interests in F1. Red Bull Technology has two directors, Horner as the de facto CEO and the finance director Alastair Rew.

Now, Red Bull Technology is 100% owned by Red Bull GmbH, so when Dietrich Mateschitz was alive, he was de facto in control of Red Bull Racing. But in fact, there was no agreement made between Dietrich Mateschitz and the Thai side of the operation for this control to pass to Mark Mateschitz, meaning that the Thai side of the operation is now in control of the motorsport operations.

So, to answer your question: yes, they can fire him. However, Horner has excellent relations with the Thai side of the operation, meaning that even if the Austrians hate him, there's nearly nothing they can do about it. There's a lot of political moves going on within Red Bull GmbH, but as long as he retains the support of Chalerm Yoovidhya, he's untouchable. It's very likely that he sees Horner as a balance to the Austrian corporate types that run the company, especially as the F1 team is a massively important part of the Red Bull brand and business.

The Thais in particular have been said to be taking much more of an active role in the business, meaning that this is really about a power struggle at the top. It's well known that the Austrians want to get control over Red Bull Technology, as the company has been operating very much at arms length from Red Bull GmbH. Dietrich Mateschitz didn't mind or even care, because Horner was delivering, but now with him gone, the knives are out.

But there is something else to all of this. Horner's patron was Bernie Ecclestone, and it would be very hard to remove him without him doing something wrong. Liberty Global won't want him to go anywhere as he's so media friendly, and most F1 team owners would probably agree that Horner is excellent for the sport. This is exactly why Toto and others are getting so frustrated with Red Bull GmbH's handling of the whole situation, because they simply want to compete without this ridiculous situation hanging over them. You'll notice that they haven't said anything bad about Horner, it's all criticism aimed at the parent company.

Interesting thanks.

I had imagined that Horner had some ownership rights over the team and RB technology, it seems he’s just an employee.

It was always stated that Marko was Matechitz’s “representative” within the team so him being a board member makes sense.
 
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JD2168

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There are reports that FIA chairman Mohammed Ben Sulayem is being investigated for allegedly intervening in the Fernando Alonso 10 second penalty at the 2023 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix. According to reports a whistleblower has said the he attempted to interfere with the result by getting Alonso’s penalty overturned. It was the touching the car incident whilst serving a penalty for not parking in the grid slot properly which caused a mechanic to be seen touching the car with the rear jack.
 

357

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Latest updates with the Horner situation is that Jos Verstappen is supposed to also have had a fling with the woman who made the complaint about Horner, and the woman who made the complaint has now been suspended by Red Bull pending yet another investigation.

Doesn't look good for any of the individuals, the team, or Formula One.
 

JD2168

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Christian Horner has said in the Team Principals press conference that it is now time to move on from the story & concentrate on the racing. He also said that he has spoken to Jos Verstappen & that they have agreed to move on.
 

Mogster

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25 Sep 2018
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Christian Horner has said in the Team Principals press conference that it is now time to move on from the story & concentrate on the racing. He also said that he has spoken to Jos Verstappen & that they have agreed to move on.

I’m sure he’d like that to happen but the public confirmation of suspension of the complainant just raises more questions.

There have been rumours since the leaked “evidence” that payoffs, 6 figures, were being floated and Mrs Horner was desperate to get the complainant out of the team. Maybe suspension is a way to add leaverage to the sums being offered, although it could also mean further legal action.
 

AM9

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I’m sure he’d like that to happen but the public confirmation of suspension of the complainant just raises more questions.

There have been rumours since the leaked “evidence” that payoffs, 6 figures, were being floated and Mrs Horner was desperate to get the complainant out of the team. Maybe suspension is a way to add leaverage to the sums being offered, although it could also mean further legal action.
Horner's just pushing the "Nothing to see here" line in the hope that it might go away.
 

357

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There have been rumours since the leaked “evidence” that payoffs, 6 figures, were being floated and Mrs Horner was desperate to get the complainant out of the team. Maybe suspension is a way to add leaverage to the sums being offered, although it could also mean further legal action.
What the reality is and what the media are saying are generally very far apart in F1.

I suspect she hasn't been suspended for making a complaint but more likely for violations of the media policy.
 

sannox

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Christian Horner has said in the Team Principals press conference that it is now time to move on from the story & concentrate on the racing. He also said that he has spoken to Jos Verstappen & that they have agreed to move on.
Man wants problematic situation to go away shock.
 
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Hope it goes well (the appendectomy) and he makes a speedy recovery.

Presumably that just gives Bearman an hour in the car for FP3 before qualifying?
It does indeed - Ollie will become the 3rd youngest F1 Driver ever, the first Brit to be in a Ferrari since Eddie Irvine in 1999, is the 12th Brit to race for the Scuderia and the first to make their debut in F1, with Ferrari since the 60’s.
 

najaB

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Eddie Irvine is not a 'Brit', he was born in Newtonards, in Northern Ireland.
I agree that he wasn't born in Great Britain, but as to if he's a 'Brit' depends on your definition of what it means to be British.

The Wikipedia definition is:
British people or Britons, also known colloquially as Brits, are the citizens of the United Kingdom, the British Overseas Territories, and the Crown dependencies.
 

birchesgreen

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According to the government if you are born in the UK you are a British citizen.

So anyway Saudi qualifying, as expected really.
 

75A

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Yeah, I was shouting for Beardman, shame he only made it to Q2. Seems Mr Hamilton not a happy chappy for the second week running.
What's the betting the front two (both Red Bulls) finish in that position?
On to more enjoyable racing in the next hour, with Indy Car practice from ST Petersberg.
 

JamesT

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Yeah, I was shouting for Beardman, shame he only made it to Q2. Seems Mr Hamilton not a happy chappy for the second week running.
What's the betting the front two (both Red Bulls) finish in that position?
On to more enjoyable racing in the next hour, with Indy Car practice from ST Petersberg.
I think 11th for a first time out given the limited amount of running he’s had is pretty amazing.
It wasn’t a Red Bull 1-2, Leclerc got in there to split them. Though I agree the chances of it finishing that way…
 

BJames

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I think 11th for a first time out given the limited amount of running he’s had is pretty amazing.
It wasn’t a Red Bull 1-2, Leclerc got in there to split them. Though I agree the chances of it finishing that way…
Agreed. Very impressive and will be interesting to see how he does in the race itself.

Some more rumbling this evening about Helmut Marko's future at Red Bull, and Max saying that he may not stay if Marko leaves. Can see more about that here
Asked by Austrian TV channel ORF about the possibility of a suspension being imposed from Monday, Marko said: "I'll put it this way, it's difficult to judge, or let's put it this way, ultimately, I'll decide for myself what I do.

I think it's such a complex issue. Again, we want peace in the team. This world championship will be difficult enough with 24 races and we have to concentrate on that."


Marko told Sky Germany he would have a meeting with Red Bull chief executive Oliver Mintzlaff on Saturday to discuss his future, but admitted he might decide of his own accord not to carry on in his role.
Speaking to Sky Sports F1 in the wake of the reports surrounding Marko after qualifying at the Saudi Arabian GP, Verstappen replied when asked what impact any exit for Marko would have on the team: "Helmut and I, we have a lot of respect for each other.

"My loyalty in general to Red Bull, but also to him, after all for what he has done for me goes very far.

"I've always said, especially after Dietrich's passing, with everyone in the team, that I find it really important that we keep the key team together because that's how we have performed really well and that's how we will perform really well in the future. They know that.

"For me, Helmut is a very key factor in that and he has to stay for me, for sure."

Asked if Marko needed to stay for him to also stay, Verstappen said: "I've always said that to the team, they know that."
 

JD2168

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A great performance from Ollie Bearman in his first qualifying session for Ferrari. He only found out he was driving a couple of hours before FP3. Carlos Sainz has messaged that he has had a Smooth Operation & good luck to Bearman.

One thing that emerged is that on the day Ollie Bearman was born in 2005 Kimi Raikkonen won the Spanish Grand Prix for McLaren with Fernando Alonso finishing second in the Renault.
 
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Nicholas Lewis

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I think 11th for a first time out given the limited amount of running he’s had is pretty amazing.
It wasn’t a Red Bull 1-2, Leclerc got in there to split them. Though I agree the chances of it finishing that way…
Fabulous debut at a trick circuit. Toto Wolff needs to tap him up now to replace Hamilton
 

JamesT

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Fabulous debut at a trick circuit. Toto Wolff needs to tap him up now to replace Hamilton
I think it’s unlikely Toto would hire someone from Ferrari’s academy to be their next driver. If they take the youth route, then Kimi Antonelli is a F2 driver who is part of Mercedes Junior Team. A former member of said junior team is Esteban Ocon, whose contract expires after this season.
Or given all the noise about infighting in Red Bull, maybe Max might jump ship? Might cost a bit to buy out his contract that runs to 2028, but the prestige of having car number 1 in your garage?
 

Nicholas Lewis

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I think it’s unlikely Toto would hire someone from Ferrari’s academy to be their next driver. If they take the youth route, then Kimi Antonelli is a F2 driver who is part of Mercedes Junior Team. A former member of said junior team is Esteban Ocon, whose contract expires after this season.
Or given all the noise about infighting in Red Bull, maybe Max might jump ship? Might cost a bit to buy out his contract that runs to 2028, but the prestige of having car number 1 in your garage?
Fair point. Got a long way to go before it all shakes out but be nice for 2025 season to have a few changes
 

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