Gatwick Express stock re-badged to Southern

[FinsburyPark]

I notice that in the last few weeks some stock that was previously used on GatEx is now in a mostly white, with no green, Southern livery. I think they are class 387s, but can't be sure?

I saw them operating on routes that were definately not GatEx routes like Brighton - Eastbourne, Brighton - Seaford and Brighton to Littlehampton which alway made me wonder if they had over purchased rolling stock for GatEx? The would operate these non GatEX routes in the GatEx livery with the information boards on the train mentioning Southern.

Now some of them have been re liveried and re deployed as Southern units.

 

[Jan Mayen]

Possibly from Great Northern? I've noticed that comes up on the wi-fi occasionally.

 

[JonathanH]

I notice that in the last few weeks some stock that was previously used on GatEx is now in a mostly white, with no green, Southern livery. I think they are class 387s, but can't be sure?

The stock has come from Great Northern, rather than Gatwick Express. The 27 387/2s should still be red.

 

[FinsburyPark]

Possibly from Great Northern? I've noticed that comes up on the wi-fi occasionally.

Yeah, I never though of that. All of them are part of GTR

 

[JonathanH]

I saw them operating on routes that were definately not GatEx routes like Brighton - Eastbourne, Brighton - Seaford and Brighton to Littlehampton which alway made me wonder if they had over purchased rolling stock for GatEx? The would operate these non GatEX routes in the GatEx livery with the information boards on the train mentioning Southern.

The Gatwick Express stock has been displaced in two ways. Firstly, there are no Victoria to Gatwick short workings any more so Gatwick Express only runs half hourly, and secondly no need for 12 coaches on some of the trains to Brighton. All part of the changes in demand since 2020 and redeployment of rolling stock to eliminate older units.

 

[Sun Chariot]

387123/26-29 have been moved from GN to SOU. See post #170 (and the few preceding posts) on this thread:

Planned 387 and 377 cascades to Southern and Southeastern in 2025

Hi everyone. We’ve been told that 13 class 377s will be coming over to SE shortly, this is to replace more networkers. I guess they’re to replace 465s on some of the Ashford/gillingham runs? Would 52 coaches be enough to replace the remaining 465/9 fleet? And some 2 cars?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[superalbs]

The stock has come from Great Northern, rather than Gatwick Express. The 27 387/2s should still be red.

But I believe one 387/2 is running around with different GX branding...

 

[Bikeman78]

The stock has come from Great Northern, rather than Gatwick Express. The 27 387/2s should still be red.

They might as well paint them in Southern livery at their next overhaul. Red units go elsewhere and non red units turn up on Gatwick Express so it's meaningless.

 

[Sun Chariot]

But I believe one 387/2 is running around with different GX branding...

Which one? The 387/2s I've seen along the West Coastway this year, have been in the usual GX livery and branding.

White GN units 387123/26-29 have been moved to SOU, I've seen them along the West Coastway for the past few weeks.

 

[FinsburyPark]

They might as well paint them in Southern livery at their next overhaul. Red units go elsewhere and non red units turn up on Gatwick Express so it's meaningless.

I would say yes, but with everything being nationalised, maybe there is a point for not spending on livery changes.

That said GTR are staying on till 2028 so they might choose to go ahead with livery change as thier contract is longer than some of the others, if not most of the others.

 

[Sussex Ben]

Which one? The 387/2s I've seen along the West Coastway this year, have been in the usual GX livery and branding.

387201 has a slightly different livery, although still red. I believe from when Great Northern borrowed it and it not being changed back again when it came back south.

 

[Sun Chariot]

387201 has a slightly different livery, although still red. I believe from when Great Northern borrowed it and it not being changed back again when it came back south.

Thanks for the insight. I'll keep an eye out for that one on the Southampton turns.

 

[boiledbeans2]

387105?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

387201 has a slightly different livery, although still red. I believe from when Great Northern borrowed it and it not being changed back again when it came back south.

The livery is the same in that it's in all red with silver doors, but lacking the proper logo with large X decals, and instead with a naff looking "Gatwick Express" written in Avenir font.

 

[dk1]

I would say yes, but with everything being nationalised, maybe there is a point for not spending on livery changes.

That said GTR are staying on till 2028 so they might choose to go ahead with livery change as thier contract is longer than some of the others, if not most of the others.

I think we will still see lots of livery variations for many years to come.

 

[REO Nate]

The fully white 387's were always meant to be for SN, but were diverted to and used by GN until their 379's became available. Those white 387's are now filtering down to SN and we have been told they wll be liveried up in due course. There are also some dark green 387s knocking about with silver doors, that have come from GWR. I don't know if they are being resprayed, but some are currently running around just with SN badging on them.

 

[75A]

I think we will still see lots of livery variations for many years to come.

Surely thatbreaks up the monotony?

 

[JonathanH]

The fully white 387's were always meant to be for SN, but were diverted to and used by GN until their 379's became available.

The white 387s went to the GN in 2016. I recall that the 377/5s were originally expected to go to GN but ended up at Southeastern, but it isn't obvious that the 387s were only a temporary allocation pending 379s becoming available. That would imply that there was originally some strategy in the Greater Anglia full fleet replacement that wasn't clear at the time.

 

[MrJeeves]

But I believe one 387/2 is running around with different GX branding...

Yes, there's one (387 201, pictured below) with minimised branding rather than the huge GX's across the side.

 

[superalbs]

Yes, there's one (387 201, pictured below) with minimised branding rather than the huge GX's across the side.

View attachment 174723

That's it!

 

[dk1]

Surely thatbreaks up the monotony?

Of course. I’m all for it.

 

[NSE]

Surely thatbreaks up the monotony?

It does and I enjoy it purely as an enthusiast. But I do feel for the confused passengers when a formation of one Gatwick Express branded 387 and one Southern branded 387 pull up at Haywards Heath working a Gatwick Express service to London, while the same half and half formation appears on the southbound platform working a Southern service to Eastbourne. And then arriving at Eastbourne to see a single Gatwick Express branded 387 working a Southern service back to Brighton and not going anywhere near Gatwick Airport.

I’m fully aware that the white units aren’t supposed to be for the GatEx workings but I have already seen one attached to a red /2 on a GatEx diagram. Of course, I’m always in the camp that any service beats no service, but I do feel for any passengers who fall foul of the old Gatwick Express ticket restrictions.

 

[Lockwood]

Last time I got the train to the office, I saw some GX units at Havant. I think they were all doing Southampton to Brighton.

It did make me wonder what would happen if one of those ended up on the Victoria service, for passengers joining at that end of the route...

Especially if they are also using non-GX stock on GX.


My ticket says not GX. I didn't get on the red train. I got on the not-red train. I'm now being told off by the ticket people for being on a train I can't be on?
Or are there sufficient controls and safeguards to prevent that from happening?

 

[kacper]

My ticket says not GX.

Wasn't there something about how this isn't actually enforce able because of them all being operated by one company?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Wasn't there something about how this isn't actually enforce able because of them all being operated by one company?

It’s not legal but they try and do it anyway.

My ticket says not GX. I didn't get on the red train. I got on the not-red train. I'm now being told off by the ticket people for being on a train I can't be on?
Or are there sufficient controls and safeguards to prevent that from happening?

I highly recommend you send @yorkie a PM regarding this.

 

[MrJeeves]

Wasn't there something about how this isn't actually enforce able because of them all being operated by one company?

It's against the terms of an agreement (TSA, Ticketing and Settlement Agreement) between the TOCs and the DfT. Whether passengers can also claim to be a party to that agreement or enforce its conditions is the subject of an ongoing lawsuit.

Unofficially, based on my experience, such ticket restrictions are rarely enforced except at the Victoria gateline.

 

[trivran]

It is a hypothetical.

It’s not legal but they try and do it anyway.


I highly recommend you send @yorkie a PM regarding this.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

387123/26-29 have been moved from GN to SOU. See post #170 (and the few preceding posts) on this thread:

I think 387127 is still on the GN, unless it has gone over within the last few days. I have seen it within the last week or so at Kings Cross.

 

[MrJeeves]

I think 387127 is still on the GN, unless it has gone over within the last few days. I have seen it within the last week or so at Kings Cross.

Yes still at GN. Currently at Hornsey, waiting to work 3C54/2R54 this evening.

 

[43066]

It's against the terms of an agreement (TSA, Ticketing and Settlement Agreement) between the TOCs and the DfT. Whether passengers can also claim to be a party to that agreement or enforce its conditions is the subject of an ongoing lawsuit.

Unofficially, based on my experience, such ticket restrictions are rarely enforced except at the Victoria gateline.

Indeed.

Presumably once the GTR franchise expires and we enter the “new world”, these agreements will fall away, and GBR will be free to charge different prices for different “brands”, in any case.