Given the Shapps announcement, which lines would you propose for reopening?

[Along the bay]

Bangor - Caernarfon would be a personal pick.

 

[AlanL]

There are three lines in Shropshire that have potential
1 The Ironbridge line with lots of tourism potential (there is third party funding available!).
2 The Gobowen-Oswestry line - in situ mostly and owned by the Council.
3 Wellington-Newport-Stafford - part already open to Donnington and more importantly would link into the West Coast main line avoiding the congested Birmingham and giving Shropshire a much quicker link to London.

 

[trainbow]

Might give a spur along with the Ashington - Blyth line, which I imagine the government will be keen to get off the ground due to the nature of the politics of the area right now (after, of course, decades of hard work by campaigners and local councils).

 

[CambrianCoast]

Bangor - Caernarfon would be a personal pick.

Completely agree. Onwards to Afonwen with a connection to the Cambrian would be brilliant rather than having to go to Shrewsbury go get to the North Wales Coast by train.

 

[Fincra5]

To be honest, for me, it would be the missing chunk between Lewes and Uckfield. Providing another route to London (from Lewes) when the BML is closed for whatever reason.

Using the old junction on the line towards Cooksbridge. Around the Hamsey Area.

 

[Alteran Ancient]

To be honest, for me, it would be the missing chunk between Lewes and Uckfield. Providing another route to London (from Lewes) when the BML is closed for whatever reason.

Using the old junction on the line towards Cooksbridge. Around the Hamsey Area.

I was waiting for someone to suggest this. After the initial closure, much of the line to Uckfield was singled in the 90s due to it being in a really sorry state. There's been a lot of "umm"ing and "aah"ing over what to do with it, because it's one of only a few lines down South that isn't yet electrified and the line could really use some kind of improvement. There are a few caveats, though, such as, what to do with land between Uckfield and Lewes that has been sold-off or land-grabbed in the time since the line was closed, and you'd almost definitely need a few level crossings to be installed - in particular, having one at Uckfield High Street would be noticeable disruptive to local traffic.

I'd love to see the line benefit from some kind of improvement. Having just an hourly service to London Bridge that gets cancelled at the drop of a hat isn't really a service that you can rely on. Plenty of locals would rather travel to Haywards Heath or Tunbridge Wells, where the service is both more frequent and more reliable.

 

[Fincra5]

I was waiting for someone to suggest this. After the initial closure, much of the line to Uckfield was singled in the 90s due to it being in a really sorry state. There's been a lot of "umm"ing and "aah"ing over what to do with it, because it's one of only a few lines down South that isn't yet electrified and the line could really use some kind of improvement. There are a few caveats, though, such as, what to do with land between Uckfield and Lewes that has been sold-off or land-grabbed in the time since the line was closed, and you'd almost definitely need a few level crossings to be installed - in particular, having one at Uckfield High Street would be noticeable disruptive to local traffic.

I'd love to see the line benefit from some kind of improvement. Having just an hourly service to London Bridge that gets cancelled at the drop of a hat isn't really a service that you can rely on. Plenty of locals would rather travel to Haywards Heath or Tunbridge Wells, where the service is both more frequent and more reliable.

It was indeed. There are still passing loops in places. Uckfield station could be moved back to its original position, 2 platforms, thus creating another loop for trains to pass.

Land is sold all the time. Thats where compulsory purchase comes in.

Should never have closed Shoreham-by-Sea to Horsham either. But thats even more developed on now.

 

[billio]

Perhaps Boris has an eye on retaining those seats he won from Labour in the North, and what better way than to reward them with reinstated passenger railways? I'm a local councillor for Shap so I'd be very interested in his plans to reopen closed stations on existing passenger lines.

Was Shap at risk of losing its bus service a few years ago ? And now only has one or two buses a day ? A station there would make a useful point for commencing walks through the Eastern Lakes and towards the Dales.

 

[PTR 444]

One that I don’t think has been mentioned anywhere before but could have some benefit in reopening is one of the lines between Savernake and Marlborough. The site of the latter station has now been built on but there is land to the west of the A346 which could be used for a replacement, while the rest of the route doesn’t have much in the way of buildings. It could then be served by an extension of the Bedwyn terminators which would leave the Berks and Hants Line at the site of the former Savernake station, providing Marlborough with a direct rail service to London.

 

[HSTEd]

Once land has been sold that route is so better than any other.
So reopening becomes no better than just laying out a brand new, modern route.

 

[Roose]

Was Shap at risk of losing its bus service a few years ago ? And now only has one or two buses a day ? A station there would make a useful point for commencing walks through the Eastern Lakes and towards the Dales.

A few walkers and a population of 1200 are unlikely to make a business case.

Trains stopping at Shap wouldn't do much for journey times on WCML. Bear in mind many already skip-stop Penrith or Oxenholme.

 

[Glenn1969]

Maybe if Shap and Garstang and Catteral stations reopened there could be a local service from Preston to Carlisle that could improve the service at Oxenholme and Penrith?

 

[hooverboy]

A few walkers and a population of 1200 are unlikely to make a business case.

Trains stopping at Shap wouldn't do much for journey times on WCML. Bear in mind many already skip-stop Penrith or Oxenholme.

for a mainline service ,yes,

with a bit of clever marketing and the metals in place, something like a lakeland rover might work.
the old penrith-keswick etc...
if you have a lot of ramblers(the lakes do), and hotels/ b+b's close to nice rambling routes AND station, then you could potentially do one of julia bradbury's "wordsworth walks"

I think there would be quite a substantial market for that if the stuff and amenities are in suitable locations.
PS you do have to bear in mind such footfall is EXTREMELY seasonal,much like coastal resorts. You need a backup series of events from oct-mar.

 

[neilmc]

for a mainline service ,yes,

with a bit of clever marketing and the metals in place, something like a lakeland rover might work.
the old penrith-keswick etc...
if you have a lot of ramblers(the lakes do), and hotels/ b+b's close to nice rambling routes AND station, then you could potentially do one of julia bradbury's "wordsworth walks"

I think there would be quite a substantial market for that if the stuff and amenities are in suitable locations.
PS you do have to bear in mind such footfall is EXTREMELY seasonal,much like coastal resorts. You need a backup series of events from oct-mar.

Shap is particularly badly hit because the bus service is so poor - shoppers services three days a week, a college day service to Kendal and I think a once-a-week run by Cumbria Classic Coaches. You can't commute from Shap to anywhere, there are no buses at all on a weekend and as it's a historically manual working village on a major trunk road as opposed to a wealthy incomer village something better is needed. Also there are lots of villages nearby for which a drive to Penrith/Oxenholme is long and parking a hassle, a station in Shap could be a railhead. Tebay is of course in a similar position but smaller.

 

[endecotp]

Shap and Tebay would have stations if they were on the Settle-Carlisle.
Like a few other places, they suffer from being on a main line.

 

[BigCj34]

If Snap got reopens it could strengthen the case for having Carnforth's platforms reinstated. Realistically Snap isn't going to be served by the Glasgow Express trains but could be a case for other stopping services.

Having said that it is difficult to see which services would want a couple of extra stops, seeing as TPE to Scotland is trying to be a little more Intercity.

 

[Djgr]

If Snap got reopens it could strengthen the case for having Carnforth's platforms reinstated. Realistically Snap isn't going to be served by the Glasgow Express trains but could be a case for other stopping services.

Having said that it is difficult to see which services would want a couple of extra stops, seeing as TPE to Scotland is trying to be a little more Intercity.

If there was a priority list for reopening (and various ones have been produced over the years) Shap would not be in the top 200. 2000?

 

[Indigo Soup]

If there was a priority list for reopening (and various ones have been produced over the years) Shap would not be in the top 200. 2000?

I'd suggest that anywhere with such low traffic potential that its bus service is under threat of withdrawal is definitely not a priority for having any kind of rail service reinstated.

 

[CptCharlee]

Bere Alston to Tavistock. The region needs this badly especially the Tavistock to Plymouth commuter market. Roads to Tavistock need relieving. But it was apparently qoutes at near £800m recently which is absolute ridiculous.

I mean why cant we just create a new modern rail line? Does it have to be old disused lines. A modern fast Plymouth to Exeter with no stops between would be something I'd love to see but is a mere pipe dream.

I'll never see it happening though.

 

[tbtc]

I'd suggest that anywhere with such low traffic potential that its bus service is under threat of withdrawal is definitely not a priority for having any kind of rail service reinstated.

^^ THIS!^^

If you can't make a viable operation with a twenty five seater minibus then you shouldn't be considering heavy rail as the answer.

I like Shap - fond memories of the New Balance shop there - but if a business case is based on the grounds of "if you opened a few stations on a two track main line with several high long distance speed services on it and offered discounted tickets like Rovers then it might attract a few people for the summer months" then we should really be focussing attention on places where there is a clear demand.

For example, Tavistock has four commercial buses per hour to Plymouth, that's a clear market, that's a good enough distance for train travel to be competitive, that's a clear case of "commuter town and nearest big city" that works well for heavy rail - Tavistock ought to be relatively high up a list of future re-openings (it's just that it always seems to get weaved in with the obsession that others have about a Waterloo - Okehampton - Plymouth service - I think that a short stub to Tavistock would work perfectly well on its own but people aren't campaigning for that in sufficient number because they want a nice big juicy line through the middle of nowhere under the pretext of Dawlish).

Elsewhere, look at commercial bus routes as a guide to where there's a clear demand for public transport, look at combinations of "commuter town and nearest big city" like the Tavistock/Plymouth example. So, Portishead/Bristol. Ashington/Newcastle. Peterhead/Aberdeen. Keep it simple, show a clear everyday demand, forget about "diversionary resilience" or seasonal tourism or other high minded stuff. Focus on boring urban stubs rather than scenic locations (however nice an Aberystwyth - Carmarthen service might be to ride on if the sun were shining, we'd be better attending to uglier places that need simple connections to the jobs of the nearest big city - e.g. in Scotland I'd rather have Renfrew/ Methil than Callander/ Newcastleton).

Oh, and there's a difference between "a station" and "a station that's actually useful to the people who live there". I see suggestions for lines on the basis of "putting a town back on the map" but for services that wouldn't actually link the town with the nearest big city. Whilst I'm sure that Forfar is on the list of "places without a station", a line from Aberdeen to Perth won't be much use to the majority of locals who work/shop in Dundee. I've seen other suggestions of putting Maltby on the map by re-opening the freight line from Worksop to Doncaster to passenger traffic (ignoring the fact that Maltby people gravitate towards Rotherham/ Meadowhall/ Sheffield). Otherwise we are spending huge sums on giving a place a station on the "wrong" route.

Most people live fairly unremarkable lives, they have fairly unremarkable commutes, fairly unremarkable shopping habits. I should know, I'm one of these predictable people! Give us something simple and it'll work. Spending hundreds of millions of pounds on routes because they might be useful for diversions on a couple of weekends a year isn't going to help much.

 

[Snow1964]

There are 2 for me

Northwards from Poole towards Broadstone and Wimborne (as area has now been used for housing)

South from Guildford (Peasmarsh) to Cranleigh (especially if Dunsfold airport is developed, which could be alternative)

 

[CdBrux]

Could tbtc (who, IMHO, writes copious sense on these forums) comment if the Sheffield to Stocksbridge line, currently freight only as I understand, could be a sensible candidate? I see the new MP has mentioned it on her FB page:

An exciting announcement from the Department for Transport today, committing £500m of funding to kickstart the reopening of rail routes closed decades ago. More information using the link at the bottom of this post.

In December, Rail Minister Chris Heaton Harris MP visited Stocksbridge and announced that the Stocksbridge to Sheffield line is one of the routes that the Government would like to see re-opened. This offers us a real opportunity to improve transport connections for our community.

Last week I met with representatives from Sheffield City Region and the Don Valley Railway to look at possible sites for a passenger train station in Stocksbridge. At the moment, a freight train travels from Stocksbridge to Sheffield twice a day along what used to be a passenger line. The Don Valley Railway group have been campaigning for over ten years to see this line re-instated as a passenger service and I am delighted that the Government is committed to funding projects like these.

The A6102 between Stocksbridge and Sheffield is a busy road, and frequent users will know that traffic congestion and air quality in Hillsborough are significant issues for those coming into the North of Sheffield. With more housing being built and planned for the Upper Don Valley, congestion will only increase. If we are going to connect our communities with jobs, training and services, and reduce our use of fossil fuels, we have to find viable alternatives to private cars. This a fantastic opportunity to do just that and I’m looking forward to working with the Department for Transport and Sheffield City Region to deliver it.

 

[yorksrob]

For example, Tavistock has four commercial buses per hour to Plymouth, that's a clear market, that's a good enough distance for train travel to be competitive, that's a clear case of "commuter town and nearest big city" that works well for heavy rail - Tavistock ought to be relatively high up a list of future re-openings (it's just that it always seems to get weaved in with the obsession that others have about a Waterloo - Okehampton - Plymouth service - I think that a short stub to Tavistock would work perfectly well on its own but people aren't campaigning for that in sufficient number because they want a nice big juicy line through the middle of nowhere under the pretext of Dawlish).
.

Absolute nonsense.

There is so much support for this project, the local authority has bought up most of the track bed.

There is no way in which people campaigning for a through route are holding back this campaign - the Bere Alston to Tavistock section would be a necessary precursor to such a scheme.

What is holding back the project is a lack of funding from central Government, and people arguing that funding should be spent on other things.

 

[Edders23]

It would be nice to see it happen but whilst the Blythe and Tyne line might be possible can't see the funding for Fleetwood happening

 

[Meerkat]

In your deams!
At some point trams on the Windermere branch will need servicing and maintenance. Where will they go and how will they get there at 50mph top speed on dc when the main line is 100mph+ on ac? It just disintegrates the system even more.
Sometime in the future I would like to think charters could access Windermere.

I have often wondered what the biggest tram/train/tram-train is that could easily be fitted on a special trailer. Have pallet sized replaceable modules for power/batteries whatever, and swap them over by lorry when they need deeper attention, or to move coaches around to where the demand is.

However I agree about Windermere. Electrify, and build a proper terminal station with two platforms and serious bus interchange so long distance and charters can operate. Would surely be a market for a mid-evening Thursday and Friday train from London (return Sunday and Monday evenings), possibly via Brum and Manchester. Plenty of wealthy outdoors types who would be up for that. Maybe build a big Premier Inn at the station so the train can get in late then everybody buses out in the morning.

 

[Meerkat]

deleted duplicate

 

[Aictos]

I would like to see the Ivanhoe line extended in full to Burton-on-Trent which means upgrading the existing freight only line between Leicester and Burton-on-Trent via Coalville to passenger standards and with rebuilt stations at Coalville and Ashby-de-la-Zouch only.

This would be served by the existing hourly East Midlands Railway's Lincoln to Leicester via Nottingham service which would be extended to Burton-on-Trent.

Yes there are buses between Coalville and Leicester but they are slow and overcrowded so a train would be faster and more comfortable even if just a hourly service.

 

[MarkyT]

Once land has been sold that route is so better than any other.
So reopening becomes no better than just laying out a brand new, modern route.

Not sure about your 'just', but I agree in principle the old alignments shouldn't be thought of as easy, although often they're the obvious and sometimes only possible routes, particularly in hilly territory and through towns. Often it's just a few places where land is obstructed by significant new development, usually around old station sites etc in town and village centres. That makes things complex because viable ways around the obstructions can sometimes take the route far away from the particular settlement which can defeat the point of reopening in the first place. Through rural fields between towns, old alignments are mostly clear of development but earthworks, structures, and drainage, having not been maintained for over half a century, usually require complete reconstruction to be servicable.

 

[yorksrob]

So this proposal is about one existing line being put back into passenger service and the only closed line in England not to have been built on or converted into a bypass because it did actually carry freight up to a few years ago

The whole point of the "Beeching cuts" was to release railway lines for conversion into roads thus enabling Ernest Marples business interests to prosper. In reality it was councils and other interests who saw an opportunity to grab prime development land except in Scotland

Just about every line closed was destroyed with indecent haste so you simply cannot reverse the closures and I believe one of the preferred options for the Fleetwood line is to add it to the existing tram network

I think this is part of BOJO's charm offensive to make sure that Labour can never reestablish themselves soundbites with the promise of a limited budget

It would be nice to see it happen but whilst the Blythe and Tyne line might be possible can't see the funding for Fleetwood happening

There are a few proposals around the place that have reasonably intact trackbeds. Tavistock and Wisbech spring to mind. Portishead is also one which ought to be finished.

 

[class26]

There are a few proposals around the place that have reasonably intact trackbeds. Tavistock and Wisbech spring to mind. Portishead is also one which ought to be finished.

Blyth also of course