Glasgow Subway new stock

[trebor79]

Hopefully I can get up to Glasgow soon for a go all ride on the Metro-Cammell stock. I love the proper tube train noises they make.

 

[cammyeaston]

Hopefully I can get up to Glasgow soon for a go all ride on the Metro-Cammell stock. I love the proper tube train noises they make.

You'd better be quick pal, they've started withdrawing them now. Won't be long until they're all replaced.

 

[jagardner1984]

https://twitter.com/PaulJSweeney/status/1779490851493642600

Interestingly local MSP Paul Sweeney has put out an open appeal for anyone who may be able to provide a home .... (or more crucially - cover the transportation and storage costs.)

I imagine unless someone has a plan (and the money) pretty much now, then many more of these will be lost to the Scrappie.

 

[Buzby]

I imagine unless someone has a plan (and the money) pretty much now, then many more of these will be lost to the Scrappie.

Well we’ve been here before…. 3 of the G1 coaches went to Glasgow’s Museum of Transport, one trailing coach was cut down the middle and mounted on the wall of Buchanan Street ticket hall (before being removed as part of the last refurbishment) and one driving and trailer went to Beamish (Although I never saw it there) All the others were scrapped or just fell apart unaided.

SPT have indicated Glasgow Life are getting a set, but space is tight at their Nitshill storage and they now holding the People’s Palace stock (which closed today for a 2 year refurb), so hopefully someone will keep it save for them. Since the track gauge is pretty unique I doubt anyone else is in the running, even if they got it for free (Bo’ness anyone?). Dunno what Sweeney’s on about!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'd have thought there'd be one donated to the museum at Partick... is this not the case, or are they short of space?

 

[Buzby]

I'd have thought there'd be one donated to the museum at Partick... is this not the case, or are they short of space?

They already have two G1’s on display so a G2 would be overkill - as for space, they could nail it on the wall like the cars?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

They already have two G1’s on display so a G2 would be overkill - as for space, they could nail it on the wall like the cars?

It's the museum for the history of transport in the city, having an example of Subway stock from each generation is hardly "overkill" in my book. If space is that much of a premium then one of the two G1s should make way. Better to have one of each than two of one and none of the other.
It seems that the preservation movement at large has a bit of a problem with "newer" exhibits, as if those making the decisions don't consider newer stuff to be as worthy of preservation. If I make it to 80 and am in a fit state to visit a transport museum, I'll want to see exhibits from my youth, not from my grandfather's.

 

[Buzby]

I’ve certainly no issue with newer models - They even have a Tesla! However if you want to value ‘uniqueness’ the video re-creation of life of the period is far more interesting than that (say of the 80 & 90s) which would have the same appeal. Many vehicles didn’t make the journey from Kelvin Hall, the single and double decker trolleybuses - so I’d prefer this to yet another subway coach just taken out of service.

Whilst you may prefer to see exhibits from your youth (sadly, most of the ones at Riverside I’ve been on in public service), but not everything is there. A trip to (say) the Calton Vintage Bus Garage can fill in many blanks - as I discovered last year!

 

[Dstock7080]

SPT video of old trains being removed from Broomloan depot:

 

[Rick1984]

I got lucky on my last visit. An old one pulled in on one circle, then a new one on the other!

 

[AlistairCowell]

As this video suggested, Cars 102, 108 and 131 are no longer on the Glasgow Subway. Not sure if the cars get scrapped locally (like 122 did in 2015) or to be taken further afield such as Sims at Newport.

One car is destined for the Riverside Museum though, according to Radio Clyde.

 

[Buzby]

One car is destined for the Riverside Museum though, according to Radio Clyde.

As I mentioned in #394, 2 cars are earmarked a Driving + trailer. But which ones haven’t been identified but it’ll be a long time before they’ll be on display.

 

[Kite159]

Looked like only 304 is out today of the new stock, the other 5 sets are the older gen 2.

Quiet inside and fast acceleration, doors seem to have a delay between the buzzer sounding and them opening, all be a couple seconds. Ride near the wheels is a bit shaky (didn't get the chance to sample the ride in the centre of the coaches). Seats are a lot harder compared to the Gen 2 sets.

 

[Huntergreed]

Looked like only 304 is out today of the new stock, the other 5 sets are the older gen 2.

Quiet inside and fast acceleration, doors seem to have a delay between the buzzer sounding and them opening, all be a couple seconds. Ride near the wheels is a bit shaky (didn't get the chance to sample the ride in the centre of the coaches). Seats are a lot harder compared to the Gen 2 sets.

When I was in the city (around lunchtime!) the majority of services actually seemed to be newer stock. It may be just that I got lucky, but of the 5 trains I saw on both circles, only 1 was gen 2.

 

[Rick1984]

Do they have Jacob bogies between cars?

 

[hexagon789]

Do they have Jacob bogies between cars?

Yes, articulated design so 5 bogies for 4 cars.

 

[Rick1984]

Cheers, I thought they would

 

[EMU303]

First time I’ve seen the new trains out on a Sunday, spotted 306 and 307

 

[Kite159]

.

First time I’ve seen the new trains out on a Sunday, spotted 306 and 307

302 (Inn) & 304 (Out) were also out this morning (11am time). I wonder if they will ever fit auto announcements to help those not used to the system.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm quite frankly surprised that they haven't entered service with auto announcements and I'm sure that without them they are not fully compliant with rail vehicle accessibility

 

[Buzby]

without them they are not fully compliant with rail vehicle accessibility

I don’t believe this is an issue as 13 of the stations offer no wheelchair access _ only 2 do. As for auto announcements - as a local I find this somewhat pointless as there are only two ways to go, and there are large painted wall signage showing the order of stations. Sure it might take you 28 minutes longer to get to your station if you get on the wrong side, but you will get there!

 

[Rick1984]

It is a bit odd all they have is a screen permanently showing a map. Perhaps that will change in future.
Also how lovely is the new moquette!

 

[Buzby]

I as

It is a bit odd all they have is a screen permanently showing a map

I asked about that on the first day of service. It was suggested it would update and rotate to show the next station but it doesn’t seem to be a priority!

 

[MikeWM]

When I was in the city (around lunchtime!) the majority of services actually seemed to be newer stock. It may be just that I got lucky, but of the 5 trains I saw on both circles, only 1 was gen 2.

The newer stock seemed to be in the majority around Friday lunchtime/early afternoon when I was having a quick explore of the subway (first time ever!). Of the trains I actually caught, 2 were new and 1 was old - good to be able to have done both.

The trains that passed (that I didn't catch) looked to be in a similar ratio of new to old.

There was significant bunching going on though - service gaps in both directions seemed to be about 16 minutes, then about 4, then another 16 or so, then 4, etc. Is this normal? Seems it should be easy enough to better regulate such a simple system. Or is it just an artifact of better performance from the new stock, similar to eg. what happened when the Victoria line was introducing the 2009 stock?

 

[Spsf3232]

Today I caught a new one at 10am but by afternoon I was only seeing old stock out. Can't have been many new stock out as the entire outer circle was old stock about 1pm

 

[Buzby]

There was significant bunching going on though - service gaps in both directions seemed to be about 16 minutes, then about 4, then another 16 or so, then 4, etc. Is this normal? Seems it should be easy enough to better regulate such a simple system

The difficulty they have there is only a single exit and entrance track with twin crossovers to get the trains to the inner Circle and back out again. When a set is destined for the Outer, the traffic is held at Ibrox whilst it enters the circle - this doesn’t affect the working of the Inner.

When a set is heading for the Inner, all trains are held at Govan AND Ibrox to allow it to enter and cross to the Inner tracks, meanwhile the gaps are building up on the system until they can stabilise and even out the gaps until a set is called to return to the depot And the process restart. It’s because of the simplicity and only one entrance/exit ramp for both circles makes this worse!

 

[jagardner1984]

To be fair they are normally pretty effective at regulating. The two main issues are:

1. The failure rate of the G2 stock. There is a monumental push to provide the full 4 minute peak service. of the 12 operational sets in a day, it isn't uncommon for there to be a number of swaps through the day, sometimes with the same failing unit attempted several times. There are routes which stay in from start of service, and routes which come out after the peak, dropping to 8 minute frequency (3 per side) after the AM peak, 6 minute frequency (4 per side) afternoon, increasing to 4 minute frequency for the PM Peak. Simply, if a set is failing elsewhere on the circle, the crowds in the peaks quickly become unmanageable for the slow running train, and this is why seeing long dwell times at key locations is common (hopefully less going forward). Therefore they will commonly take out these trains, only to try and put it back in later in the day. Similarly, if one of the "all day" routes fails in the off peak, one of the peak trains, now sat at Broomloan, will go in as a set swap e.g. Inner will terminate at Govan and its replacement will go in at Ibrox, or Outer will terminate at Ibrox and its replacement will go into Govan.

2. The issue with the above is that the control / PIS Software is not really smart enough to work out what is going on. So If I am at Kinning Park, they have entered that the set currently at Partick is coming out when it reaches Govan. So my "Next Arrival" will show as 16 minutes (e.g. the next set which is currently around Cowcaddens / St Georges). However, in reality, there is a replacement going into Ibrox, so my time will suddenly jump from 16 minutes to 4 minutes. A less dramatic example of this would occur when the peak trains are going in. It is why those "in the know" would ignore the boards in the stations and often take the inner from the southside to the west end, or vice versa on the Outer, since for moves crossing Ibrox / Govan, there is a host of dwells / unreliability which is psychologically more irritating than sitting on a moving train that takes a minute longer.

Hopefully the new stock will resolve a lot of the reliability issues, but not sure whether new Control operations will resolve the swap out issue - which will occur for a variety of reasons.

 

[alxndr]

I don’t believe this is an issue as 13 of the stations offer no wheelchair access _ only 2 do. As for auto announcements - as a local I find this somewhat pointless as there are only two ways to go, and there are large painted wall signage showing the order of stations.

Wheelchair access and announcements are two very different accessibility needs. Just because one isn’t provided it shouldn’t mean that there’s no need to bother making it as accessible as possible in other ways.

Wall signage is only useful if someone is able to see it, and if you can’t that’s exactly the type of case where audible announcements come in helpful!

 

[Kite159]

Today I caught a new one at 10am but by afternoon I was only seeing old stock out. Can't have been many new stock out as the entire outer circle was old stock about 1pm

I was on the system around 1pm and only 302 was out on the inner, the other 7 services were all G2 sets. Guess it's just the luck of the draw at what is out on a given time. I did have a little farewell spin on a G2 set just in case by June there are rarer.

 

[Buzby]

Wall signage is only useful if someone is able to see it

True - however most passengers know how many stops until their disembarkation so this is hardly a priority. There is little point in providing a facility that adds minimal value, especially if the cost outweighs the benefit,