Goodwick and Welsh Railways in General

[rf_ioliver]

Happy New Year and all that...anyway, just seen this on BBC Wales:

Goodwick railway station near Fishguard to reopen

Excellent news and then it stuck me, since a mere child in Wales back int eh 70's and 80's, there have been some developments over the years:

• Introductions of HSTs
• Improvements to the Valley lines in general, eg: new platform at Pontypridd
• Aberdare branch reopening
• Ebbw Vale brach reopening
• Vale of Glamorgan reopening
• Fishguard branch - return of regular passenger services
• Llynfri Valley (Maesteg) reopening
• Various reopenings: eg: Llantrisant, Pencoed

A few things as far as I am concerned are still missing, for example: extension to Hirwaun, extension to Beddau, Ebbw Vale/Abertillery to Newport, Amlwch branch etc. But overall is there anywhere else in the country that has seen this kind of expansion since Beeching?

I'm still amazed that from my time in the south of England that projects like Uckfield-Lewes, Guildford-Cranleigh still haven't come to fruition, though improvements (in part) to the Marshlink line with te 170s come to mind.

t.

Ian

 

[Greenback]

One of the reasons that there has been reopenings in South Wales is that the lines were never taken up, being retained for freight (mostly coal) traffic.

It would have been vastly more difficult to restore passenger services if the rails had been removed, land sold and buildings constructed on the former alignment.

 

[merlodlliw]

Hello Oliver, as its to do with an old Railway Line, this may interest a few,alas the lines have been lifted between Corwen & Barmouth,

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...nds-time-on-north-wales-buses-55578-30049524/


Bob

 

[james60059]

[*]Fishguard branch - return of regular passenger services

Does anyone have any idea at all if these extra services are proving popular at all?. If I remember correctly I think a bus is/was laid on from Fishguard Town to the Harbour to meet the trains (a good alternative to the car parking charge of £7 ).

Best Wishes

James

 

[lancastrian]

Happy New Year and all that...anyway, just seen this on BBC Wales:

Goodwick railway station near Fishguard to reopen

Excellent news and then it stuck me, since a mere child in Wales back int eh 70's and 80's, there have been some developments over the years:

• Introductions of HSTs
• Improvements to the Valley lines in general, eg: new platform at Pontypridd
• Aberdare branch reopening
• Ebbw Vale brach reopening
• Vale of Glamorgan reopening
• Fishguard branch - return of regular passenger services
• Llynfri Valley (Maesteg) reopening
• Various reopenings: eg: Llantrisant, Pencoed

A few things as far as I am concerned are still missing, for example: extension to Hirwaun, extension to Beddau, Ebbw Vale/Abertillery to Newport, Amlwch branch etc. But overall is there anywhere else in the country that has seen this kind of expansion since Beeching?

I'm still amazed that from my time in the south of England that projects like Uckfield-Lewes, Guildford-Cranleigh still haven't come to fruition, though improvements (in part) to the Marshlink line with te 170s come to mind.

t.

Ian

Well the answer is very simple, not only where many of these lines still open for coal (as has been stated already), the other reason is why both Wales and Scotland have had many reopenings and rebuildings of rail lines.

Variuos Governments of what ever colour, want to 'butter up' the Welsh and Scots, and the English are stuck with what they have. I am really glad that in at least two parts of Great Britian have had rail reopenings, I just wish that we had the same determination in reopening many lines in England as well.

We could all come up with some examples as well as the two you have mentioned. my personal choices are here:-

• Colne to Skipton
• Poulton le Fylde to Fleetwood
• Sockport to Guide Bridge
• Clitheroe to Hellifield
• Northwich to Sandbach
• Burton on Trent to Leicester
• Tooton to Fawley

I would also scrap the 'guided busways' from Cambridge to Huntingdon and the Luton to Dunstable and reopen them as Railways.

 

[merlodlliw]

Well the answer is very simple, not only where many of these lines still open for coal (as has been stated already), the other reason is why both Wales and Scotland have had many reopenings and rebuildings of rail lines.

Variuos Governments of what ever colour, want to 'butter up' the Welsh and Scots, and the English are stuck with what they have. I am really glad that in at least two parts of Great Britian have had rail reopenings, I just wish that we had the same determination in reopening many lines in England as well.

We could all come up with some examples as well as the two you have mentioned. my personal choices are here:-

• Colne to Skipton
• Poulton le Fylde to Fleetwood
• Sockport to Guide Bridge
• Clitheroe to Hellifield
• Northwich to Sandbach
• Burton on Trent to Leicester
• Tooton to Fawley

I would also scrap the 'guided busways' from Cambridge to Huntingdon and the Luton to Dunstable and reopen them as Railways.

re openings in Wales, used Euro money(objective one) such as Ebbw Vale for the employment strand, whereas Flintshire & Wrexham (objective three) lost out. The improvements at Wrexham Station £1million to improve the bays was from another Euro strand via WAG, not UK Govt money,

I only make the comment as Ebbw Vale reopen was not due to UK Govt,the money came via The Welsh European Funding Office, under the then WAG.

Bob

 

[Welshman]

Does anyone have any idea at all if these extra services are proving popular at all?. If I remember correctly I think a bus is/was laid on from Fishguard Town to the Harbour to meet the trains (a good alternative to the car parking charge of £7 ).

Best Wishes

James

We spent a night in Fishguard last autumn. The established boat train which gets into Fishguard about 1325, a 2 car Cl.150, was about half full, but we were the only ones not boarding the ferry. We returned the following morning on a "new" service, the 0955 ex Fishguard, which was a Cl.153, with about 3 other passengers in addition to us.

And, yes, Richards Bros. still runs a connection into the town from the harbour to meet the trains.

 

[Bald Rick]

Let's not forget reopenings and new lines in England in the same time frame, all done as seperate projects wth separate funding deals:

Blackfriars - Farringdon
B'ham Moor St - Snow Hill
Snow Hill - Smethwick
Nottingham - Newstead
Newstead - Mansfield - Worksop
Kettering - Corby (twice)
Leicester - Loughboro local services
Oxford - Bicester (and soon on to London)
Coventry - Nuneaton
Walsall - Hedensford
Hednesford - Rugeley TV
Lichfield City - Lichfield TV
Romsey - Eastleigh
Aylesbury - Aylesbury Vale
Stansted Airport link
Manchester Airport link
Whitechapel - Dalston
Dalston - Highbury & Islington
Surrey Quays - Peckham Rye (soon)
Clapham Jn - Willesden
Walsall - Wolverhampton (failed)
Halifax - Huddersfield
HS1

and no doubt more, plus scores if not hundreds of new stations.

Not forgetting various lines in Manchester, Newcastle, Sunderland, Sheffield and Croydon that have become light rail.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Without wanting to derail the thread (I apologise for the bad pun!).
In terms of the Rhondda branch, I am a little curious in the history.
I know from my parents that Ystrad Rhondda station never used to exist, and the current Ton Pentre station used to be named Ystrad (unless they are wrong about that!). But quite a few of the other stations look fairly new too (Ynyswen for example). In terms of the new platform at Pontypridd, I am guessing the other side of the main platform used to be used?

Its quite interesting for me, because I am too young to remember a lot of the older stuff (indeed, despite using trains before privatisation, I can't actually remember BR because of how young I was).

 

[rf_ioliver]

Without wanting to derail the thread (I apologise for the bad pun!).
In terms of the Rhondda branch, I am a little curious in the history.
I know from my parents that Ystrad Rhondda station never used to exist, and the current Ton Pentre station used to be named Ystrad (unless they are wrong about that!). But quite a few of the other stations look fairly new too (Ynyswen for example). In terms of the new platform at Pontypridd, I am guessing the other side of the main platform used to be used?

Its quite interesting for me, because I am too young to remember a lot of the older stuff (indeed, despite using trains before privatisation, I can't actually remember BR because of how young I was).

AFAIK yes, Ystrad became Ton Pentre...

As for Pontypridd, since the 70s (as far back I remember) Pontypridd had only the one platform with the second modern platform being built sometime in the 80s. Never understood why the Pontypridd-side face never got used.

Don't remember track in any of the bays either, though the south facing bay was used for trains to Llantrisant and Barry via Tonteg - lines sadly lost forever

Ian

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Without wanting to derail the thread (I apologise for the bad pun!).
In terms of the Rhondda branch, I am a little curious in the history.
I know from my parents that Ystrad Rhondda station never used to exist, and the current Ton Pentre station used to be named Ystrad (unless they are wrong about that!). But quite a few of the other stations look fairly new too (Ynyswen for example). In terms of the new platform at Pontypridd, I am guessing the other side of the main platform used to be used?

Its quite interesting for me, because I am too young to remember a lot of the older stuff (indeed, despite using trains before privatisation, I can't actually remember BR because of how young I was).

If you can lay your hand on the excellent book by John Davies "The Peoples Railway" (A business history of the Valleys lines from 1984 onwards) - all your questions will be answered. Ynyswen station was one that was slipped in when the General Manager was on leave , so the authorisation happened on the QT - an amusing tale in the book about what happened.

I can recall when the network was at almost rock bottom in the late 70's - with frequencies way lower than today !

 

[Greenback]

IIRC the modern platform was actually added in 1990/1991.I don't know why the Pontypridd side track was taken up, but I assume that given one platform could cope with the service in the 1970's, it allowed for higher speeds at the junction if the track was rationalised that way.

The growth ins ervices in the 1980's, and the reopening fo the line to Aberdare in 1988, meant that it was increasingly difficult to avoid delays using just one platform. At the same time, the decline in coal traffic caused by the closure of most of the remaining collieries left the freight lines largely redundant. The obvious and probably cheapest answer was to construct a second platform on the alignment of one of the freight lines, which is what happened.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Goodwick railway station near Fishguard to reopen

Excellent news

Good news yes, but I am very disapointed at the way this has been handled. Had the work to re-open started as soon as the wonderfull old station building was demolished (hence making the site safe) it should have been open by now, maybe even in time for the start of the extra services. Instead, the improved service had been running for several months before the track was relaid within reach of the platform.

A few things as far as I am concerned are still missing, for example: extension to Hirwaun, extension to Beddau, Ebbw Vale/Abertillery to Newport, Amlwch branch etc.

I'd say the priority should be the Swansea District Line, as no capital is required at all (except in terms of rolling stock) and Network Rail might repeat Beeching's mistakes there if regular services are not introduced soon (ie. by the completion of Gowerton re-double which, by itself, is also good news). After that, yes Ebbw Vale - Newport and Amlwch branch but also re-opening the frieght lines in the Swansea area (Seven Sisters (need a second Swansea station, near the docks), Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen (not spelt that right have I?) and Resolven with Aberdare extension (via Hirwaun and Glyn-Neath) to Resolven, hence extending the Aberdare line to Swansea Docks). That last one involves a short section where the line has been lifted, which leads me on to Bangor - Caernarfon (later all the way to Porthmadog, some of which would be a new route never before used by rail) and Merthyr Tydfil - Brecon (likely using a whole new route, old one too twisty and slow I expect).

Hello Oliver, as its to do with an old Railway Line, this may interest a few,alas the lines have been lifted between Corwen & Barmouth,

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...nds-time-on-north-wales-buses-55578-30049524/

Did they just say only Aberystwyth - Carmarthen would get the new buses? What happened to the ones for Newtown - Merthyr Tydfil? Personally I hope that the Optare Tempos on those two routes at the moment are cascaded onto new TrawsCambria routes or to replace the older vehicles on X94, the New Quay - Aberystwyth section of 550 (yes it should be Tempos already, but Arriva keep subsituting them with Darts and double deckers) and X32.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Wasn't Pontypridd (island platform) once one of the longest railway platform in the world? Anyway, thanks for all the posts about the station, I've only found this thread and it answers a lot of questions. It still remains quite a grim station though!

 

[merlodlliw]

Wasn't Pontypridd (island platform) once one of the longest railway platform in the world? Anyway, thanks for all the posts about the station, I've only found this thread and it answers a lot of questions. It still remains quite a grim station though!

It was in fact Platform 11(eleven) Manchester Exchange thorough to Manchester

Victoria one platform connecting the two stations.

Bob

 

[MidnightFlyer]

It was in fact Platform 11(eleven) Manchester Exchange thorough to Manchester

Victoria one platform connecting the two stations.

Bob

I knew about Victoria / Exchange, but it is still claimed to be one of the longest - as much as I dislike Wikipedia, see under 'Taff Vale Railway' here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontypridd_railway_station

 

[merlodlliw]

I knew about Victoria / Exchange, but it is still claimed to be one of the longest - as much as I dislike Wikipedia, see under 'Taff Vale Railway' here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontypridd_railway_station

Its an interesting statement,I was not aware of its claim to be the longest platform in the world, having worked in Manchester the old platform eleven was a hell of a length,so long in fact it had a sign Platform eleven middle,from which the North Wales trains left after Exchange closed.
I do feel the Waki correspondent is being a bit over zealous, as no one argued platform elevens length was surpassed in the UK.Also no length is quoted for Ponty,just it could accommodate two full length train trains,

Bob

 

[Welshman]

I don't think we can entirely trust Wiki's claim for Pontypridd's having the "then longest platform in the world" on the grounds it was able to accommodate two full-length trains.

For the Wikipedia article on Manchester Exchange tells us it was linked to Manchester Victoria by a platform of some 2,238ft in length, which was capable of accommodating three full-length trains at once.

I too, remember platform 11 at Manchester, with trains in Platform 11 at Victoria, 11 Middle in between, and 3 at Exchange - all at the same time. And these were "proper" trains - not the 2-car jobs we suffer today! And I certainly remember reading in my youth that that platform was the longest, and unfortunately I'm referring now to the days long before Wikipedia.

And it was quite a trek from Exchange to Victoria, which must have seemed even longer to my poor parents many years ago, with heavy suitcases and a sniveling child in tow!

 

[DaveHarries]

Did they just say only Aberystwyth - Carmarthen would get the new buses? What happened to the ones for Newtown - Merthyr Tydfil? Personally I hope that the Optare Tempos on those two routes at the moment are cascaded onto new TrawsCambria routes or to replace the older vehicles on X94, the New Quay - Aberystwyth section of 550 (yes it should be Tempos already, but Arriva keep subsituting them with Darts and double deckers) and X32.

I know the thread was slightly derailed earlier. However I am afraid I will have to derail the whol;e train rather than simply the lead locomotive.

To change a bus service to any extent a registration has to be lodged with the VOSA. Towards the end of last year, route and timetable changes were registered by Stagecoach for Services X4 (Cardiff - Hereford) and T4 (Newtown - Merthyr). Enquiries on enthusiast groups and, indeed, with Stagecoach Cymru have failed so far to attract a reply with details of exactly what the changes will be but, IIRC, it was planned to have the Newtown - Merthyr route extending to Cardiff without the need to change. The changes in question are to take effect 30-Jan-2012.

Traws Cambria is being renamed Traws Cymru meaning that, with the rebranding, there will be new service numbers plus route and TT alterations along with new vehicles. The X40 (Cardiff - Carmarthen - Aberystwyth) and 704 (T4) between Newtown (Powys) and Merthyr will be upgraded first. The X40 and 704 (T4) will be renumbered TC1 and TC4 respectively. Among the consequential improvements decided upon will be, and I quote, the "introduction of a dedicated fleet of six new low floor coach style vehicles featuring more comfortable coach style seating, greater luggage space, real time information and WiFi". I have a hunch what those vehicles could turn out to be but who knows.

Also, in regards to Optare Tempos the classic design of the Tempo, such as that used at the moment on the Traws Cambria routes, is now out of production and a new type of Tempo - marketed by Optare as the Tempo SR - is now in production instead.

More information:
http://www.trawscymru.info

HTIOI,
Dave

 

[merlodlliw]

I don't think we can entirely trust Wiki's claim for Pontypridd's having the "then longest platform in the world" on the grounds it was able to accommodate two full-length trains.

For the Wikipedia article on Manchester Exchange tells us it was linked to Manchester Victoria by a platform of some 2,238ft in length, which was capable of accommodating three full-length trains at once.

I too, remember platform 11 at Manchester, with trains in Platform 11 at Victoria, 11 Middle in between, and 3 at Exchange - all at the same time. And these were "proper" trains - not the 2-car jobs we suffer today! And I certainly remember reading in my youth that that platform was the longest, and unfortunately I'm referring now to the days long before Wikipedia.

And it was quite a trek from Exchange to Victoria, which must have seemed even longer to my poor parents many years ago, with heavy suitcases and a sniveling child in tow!

Yes indeed Welshman, platform eleven did accommodate three proper trains all at the same time, I recall the 1155am Exchange to Holyhead & Llandudno (split at the Junction) only just managed to get into Rhyls platform 2, it was so long, The trek you mention, I often walked the length of Platform eleven
it was almost half a mile long.

Bob

 

[Rhydgaled]

To change a bus service to any extent a registration has to be lodged with the VOSA. Towards the end of last year, route and timetable changes were registered by Stagecoach for Services X4 (Cardiff - Hereford) and T4 (Newtown - Merthyr). Enquiries on enthusiast groups and, indeed, with Stagecoach Cymru have failed so far to attract a reply with details of exactly what the changes will be but, IIRC, it was planned to have the Newtown - Merthyr route extending to Cardiff without the need to change. The changes in question are to take effect 30-Jan-2012.

That's odd, I thought the two TrawsCymru routes weren't due to appear until March or May, and I thought that, having extended 704 to Merthyr, and since there is a railhead there, there would be no further extension. Does the VOSA have powers regarding commertial services? I have recently had my commute to university ruined by Arriva breaking connections on the X40 (which is run commertially north of Aberaeron so the council are powerless) with their new timetable.

Traws Cambria is being renamed Traws Cymru meaning that, with the rebranding, there will be new service numbers plus route and TT alterations along with new vehicles. The X40 (Cardiff - Carmarthen - Aberystwyth) and 704 (T4) between Newtown (Powys) and Merthyr will be upgraded first. The X40 and 704 (T4) will be renumbered TC1 and TC4 respectively. Among the consequential improvements decided upon will be, and I quote, the "introduction of a dedicated fleet of six new low floor coach style vehicles featuring more comfortable coach style seating, greater luggage space, real time information and WiFi". I have a hunch what those vehicles could turn out to be but who knows.

Yeah, I know most of that, 6 new vehicles each for what were X40 and 704, but the article linked only mentioned 6 of the 12 new buses, the ones for X40. I'm a bit confused though as to whether (as seems sensible to me) the routes will really become TC1 and TC4 or if they will be T1 an T4 (which would seem daft to me). Also, what new vehicles do you have in mind? I've no idea what to expect, hopefully not further ruining of my commute.

As for re-naming the service, I doubt it is the case but my personal hope is that shorter routes (or routes with little end-to-end use), using the current Tempo fleet, will remain as TrawsCambria with the new vehicles operating TrawsCymru services.

Also, in regards to Optare Tempos the classic design of the Tempo, such as that used at the moment on the Traws Cambria routes, is now out of production and a new type of Tempo - marketed by Optare as the Tempo SR - is now in production instead.

What! I knew about the new version of the Tempo with a degraded appearance, but didn't realise they had scrapped the old better-looking version altogther (they kept selling the old Solo when they introduced the daft hump-backed version to match the Versa after all). Are the two best buses I know (the 12.6 metre Tempos for the X50 service) therefore the only buses of their type ever built?

I know the thread was slightly derailed earlier. However I am afraid I will have to derail the whole train rather than simply the lead locomotive.

I personally think talking about TrawsCambria and TrawsCymru is falling a shorter distance off the rails than the almighty derailment that is critising Wikipedia for claiming platform lengths are longer than they should be. However, if you'd rather you can dig up the topic I started about TrawsCambria/TrawsCymru a while back and answer my above queries (from this post) in that topic.

To try and get this thread back on the rails, I'll try to make up my (undoubtedly incomplete) itemised priority list for future Welsh rail projects.

1. Save the Swansea District Line by introducing additional services (at least one class 158 diagram running Fishguard / Milford Haven - Cardiff express services (intermediate stops south/east of Carmarthen at Llanelli, Port Talbot and Bridgend only) by the time Gowerton redouble is complete with a firm commitment for more services like it in future as soon as additional class 158s can be sourced)
2. Additional services between Aberystwyth and Shrewsbury, to form an hourly service (Ideally also in place by end of 2013)
3. Additional LHCS trains utilising all ATW's stored stock (with running costs contibuted to in part by ditching Ieaun air) to relive overcrowding on Manchester - Swansea/Llandudno and perhaps divert the 2-hourly Cardiff - Holyhead stoppers to give Wrexham and Holyhead trains that extend from Chester to Crewe or Manchester
4. Gowerton re-doubling and increased Swansea - Milford Haven/Pembroke/Carmarthen services
5. Ebbw Vale - Newport service
6. New Swansea Docks and Morriston parkway stations, new services from Seven Sisters, Gwaun-Cae-Gurwen (not spelt that right have I?) to serve them.
7. Swansea - Cheltenham Spa and ValleyLines (inc. Swansea's new ones) electrification
8. Aberdare - Glyn Neath - Swansea Docks line
9. Bangor - Caernarfon and Amlwch branch reopenings
10. Merthyr Tydfil to Brecon new line

Anyone have any different priorities? Note that these are time-wise priorities, need wise electrification would be higher up.

 

[Eire Sprinter]

I'd like to see an Abergavenny - Brynmawr - Ebbw Vale - Merthyr Tydfil - Neath line. Hypotetically it could link into most of the Valley Lines terminii stations and open up a multiplicity of new local journey opportunities in addition to longer distance services. For instance some Swansea/West Wales services to Manchester could use it. Certain Valley Line trains could operate on a circular basis e.g. Cardiff-Aberdare-Merthyr-Cardiff; Cardiff-Merthyr-Ebbw Vale-Cardiff etc...

The line could in part use existing lines i.e. from the Neath area up to Cwmgwrach though access from the South Wales mainline would be time-consuming. Thence it could link into the Tower line and serve Hirwaun/Aberdare. Across then to Merthyr though exiting Merthyr could be time-consuming with the need to go to Dowlais to gain height to run across the "Heads of the Valleys". Thence across to Ebbw Vale (Town). In my opinion the infrastructure for an Ebbw Vale (Town) station should be "future-proofed" to facilitate such a development in the years ahead. Brynmawr would be the next station and then into the existing network at Abergavenny.

The Heads of the Valley A465 road has used parts of the original railway but some engineering features remain - the viaduct near Tredegar A465 exit and at least one tunnel.

Single track for most part probably with a number of loops.

Think this has potential though probably looking at decades before it could be implemented. Would be interesting though to informally evaluate what remains and the numerous challenges arising but long-term many benefits would result from a cohesive line.

 

[Solaris]

Given £32Bn spend planned on HS2 and about £700M this parliament to plan,etc.... Should Wales get a Barnett Consequential .... or about ~£2Bn to compensaste. This principle applies to all other areas of government spend??

 

[merlodlliw]

Given £32Bn spend planned on HS2 and about £700M this parliament to plan,etc.... Should Wales get a Barnett Consequential .... or about ~£2Bn to compensaste. This principle applies to all other areas of government spend??

http://www.virtual-worlds.biz/wales_funding/

The link may help,however the terms "Funny Money" and fudging apply to both
sets of Govt, in my opinion. Ring fencing is another Govt speak, unless the Ring fence is kept energised.
Looks like the ring fenced money between Saltney & Wrexham as been given an outage.
Interesting question Solaris.

Bob

 

[tbtc]

Happy New Year and all that...anyway, just seen this on BBC Wales:

Goodwick railway station near Fishguard to reopen

Excellent news and then it stuck me, since a mere child in Wales back int eh 70's and 80's, there have been some developments over the years:

• Introductions of HSTs
• Improvements to the Valley lines in general, eg: new platform at Pontypridd
• Aberdare branch reopening
• Ebbw Vale brach reopening
• Vale of Glamorgan reopening
• Fishguard branch - return of regular passenger services
• Llynfri Valley (Maesteg) reopening
• Various reopenings: eg: Llantrisant, Pencoed

A few things as far as I am concerned are still missing, for example: extension to Hirwaun, extension to Beddau, Ebbw Vale/Abertillery to Newport, Amlwch branch etc. But overall is there anywhere else in the country that has seen this kind of expansion since Beeching?

I'm still amazed that from my time in the south of England that projects like Uckfield-Lewes, Guildford-Cranleigh still haven't come to fruition, though improvements (in part) to the Marshlink line with te 170s come to mind.

t.

Ian

I can't comment on the 70s/80s, my involvement in Welsh railways is only since the millenium, but its interesting to compare the infrastructure improvements of earlier times (a lot around the Valleys) with the more modern improvements in quieter areas (the Cambrian loops etc).

Its a shame that the Valley lines haven't kept pace with the improvements that they clearly had a generation ago.

We could all come up with some examples as well as the two you have mentioned. my personal choices are here:-

• Colne to Skipton
• Poulton le Fylde to Fleetwood
• Sockport to Guide Bridge
• Clitheroe to Hellifield
• Northwich to Sandbach
• Burton on Trent to Leicester
• Tooton to Fawley

There have been plenty of new/re-opened lines during the period that the OP was talking about - catalogued by Bald Rick - these have tended to be much higher priorities than marginal rural routes like Skipton - Colne (a waste of money, given that Leeds/Bradford already have an hourly service to Burnley/Blackburn).

Given £32Bn spend planned on HS2 and about £700M this parliament to plan,etc.... Should Wales get a Barnett Consequential .... or about ~£2Bn to compensaste. This principle applies to all other areas of government spend??

Well, the £40m being spent at Gowerton will get an additional six-mile track between Cockett West Junction and Duffryn West Junction (plus viaduct replacement work), there's the electrification of the GWML to Cardiff, there's the new lines built in recent years mentioned in the OP, there's the matter of ATW requiring the highest subsidy per passenger of any UK TOC...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Bus information here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=53747

Happy New Year and all that...anyway, just seen this on BBC Wales:

Goodwick railway station near Fishguard to reopen

Excellent news and then it stuck me, since a mere child in Wales back int eh 70's and 80's, there have been some developments over the years:

• Introductions of HSTs
• Improvements to the Valley lines in general, eg: new platform at Pontypridd
• Aberdare branch reopening
• Ebbw Vale brach reopening
• Vale of Glamorgan reopening
• Fishguard branch - return of regular passenger services
• Llynfri Valley (Maesteg) reopening
• Various reopenings: eg: Llantrisant, Pencoed

A few things as far as I am concerned are still missing, for example: extension to Hirwaun, extension to Beddau, Ebbw Vale/Abertillery to Newport, Amlwch branch etc. But overall is there anywhere else in the country that has seen this kind of expansion since Beeching?

I'm still amazed that from my time in the south of England that projects like Uckfield-Lewes, Guildford-Cranleigh still haven't come to fruition, though improvements (in part) to the Marshlink line with te 170s come to mind.

t.

Ian

I can't comment on the 70s/80s, my involvement in Welsh railways is only since the millenium, but its interesting to compare the infrastructure improvements of earlier times (a lot around the Valleys) with the more modern improvements in quieter areas (the Cambrian loops etc).

Its a shame that the Valley lines haven't kept pace with the improvements that they clearly had a generation ago.

We could all come up with some examples as well as the two you have mentioned. my personal choices are here:-

• Colne to Skipton
• Poulton le Fylde to Fleetwood
• Sockport to Guide Bridge
• Clitheroe to Hellifield
• Northwich to Sandbach
• Burton on Trent to Leicester
• Tooton to Fawley

There have been plenty of new/re-opened lines during the period that the OP was talking about - catalogued by Bald Rick - these have tended to be much higher priorities than marginal rural routes like Skipton - Colne (a waste of money, given that Leeds/Bradford already have an hourly service to Burnley/Blackburn).

Given £32Bn spend planned on HS2 and about £700M this parliament to plan,etc.... Should Wales get a Barnett Consequential .... or about ~£2Bn to compensaste. This principle applies to all other areas of government spend??

Well, the £40m being spent at Gowerton will get an additional six-mile track between Cockett West Junction and Duffryn West Junction (plus viaduct replacement work), there's the electrification of the GWML to Cardiff, there's the new lines built in recent years mentioned in the OP, there's the matter of ATW requiring the highest subsidy per passenger of any UK TOC...

 

[jones_bangor]

Given £32Bn spend planned on HS2 and about £700M this parliament to plan,etc.... Should Wales get a Barnett Consequential .... or about ~£2Bn to compensaste. This principle applies to all other areas of government spend??

Probably not - it's similar to the West Coast Mainline upgrade which has had a big benefit for North Wales - Wales has certain "slots" on that route for Wales - London services.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Probably not - it's similar to the West Coast Mainline upgrade which has had a big benefit for North Wales - Wales has certain "slots" on that route for Wales - London services.

For the West Coast Mainline I can see the point, because as you say, some services that serve parts of Wales use it.
But HS2 is a different kettle of fish, and as far as I can see, would have no benefit at all to Wales.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Out of interest we received this reply from WG earlier this week about what progress is actually happening toward using the Cambrian Infrastructure.
Can anyone verify if these discussions are actually taking place?

Regarding the passing loops at Dyfi Junction and Welshpool stations, the Welsh Government funded these two sections of track to complement Network Rail’s major re-signalling works and it made economic sense to install them concurrently. Again the new infrastructure is intended to further improve the capacity and resilience of the line. The prioritised National Transport Plan sets out a commitment for additional services, and we are preparing timetable options with Network Rail and Arriva Trains Wales which takes into account learning from the train sectional running times that can be achieved under ERTMS when Network Rail fully completes its work on the line.

The Sirhowy Valley (Blackwood and Tredegar) is an obvious gap in rail provsion in the Valleys.
Swansea Metro network. Reinstated Southern section of Central Wales line (Gorsenion pop c20K), branch to Oystermouth joining up with line from the Swansea Valley, Ystradgynlais, Pontardawe and SA1 development joining up with freight line from Crymlin burrows to Neath and line up Neath Valley to Glyn Neath.

 

[Terrafire]

For the West Coast Mainline I can see the point, because as you say, some services that serve parts of Wales use it.
But HS2 is a different kettle of fish, and as far as I can see, would have no benefit at all to Wales.

Anyone along the Cambrian line would benefit, given Birmingham is the main interchange there. North Wales too, subject to connectivity at Curzon Street with Virgin.

 

[rf_ioliver]

The Sirhowy Valley (Blackwood and Tredegar) is an obvious gap in rail provsion in the Valleys.
Swansea Metro network. Reinstated Southern section of Central Wales line (Gorsenion pop c20K), branch to Oystermouth joining up with line from the Swansea Valley, Ystradgynlais, Pontardawe and SA1 development joining up with freight line from Crymlin burrows to Neath and line up Neath Valley to Glyn Neath.

Out of interest, how much right-of-way still exists in the eastern valleys? As far as I can see the track to Machen still exists, but could it still be possible (with some clearance) to get tracks back to Blackwood and Tredegar, and also maybe beyond Abertillery to Nant-y-glo and Brynmawr?

Then as far as I can see (working westwards) Rhondda Fach is not doable anymore, nor to Nant-y-moel, but Blaengarw is possible. Beyond Maesteg is blocked AFAIU.

Towards Swansea do the tracks to Resolven and Crynant still exist? Gwaun-cae-gurwen is now back in freight operation so that's possible.

Regarding rolling stock, the suitability of the lighter railcars as used on some German branch lines always struck me as a relatively affordable solution, eg:
http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/de/private/passenger/FEG/feg_vt302hh3.jpg

Though, even approaching anything like it was not so long ago is certainly out of the question: http://www.systemed.net/atlas/ I always longed for the Llantrisant and Taff Vale railway to be still running....

Ian