Great Northern and Thameslink May 18 service changes

[Skimble19]

The American announcer is actually Canadian.

He's actually from Texas, so definitely not Canadian

And to those wondering; yes he does work for GTR.

 

[MML]

He's not a cowboy is he ?
Working for GTR would seem quite appropriate then.
Howdy yall mind the doors

 

[jon0844]

He's not a cowboy is he ?
Working for GTR would seem quite appropriate then.
Howdy yall mind the doors

Texas? Kinda makes you wonder if he'd suggest that if you saw something suspicious, make sure you brought your own gun and sort it yourself.

 

[Bishopstone]

He's actually from Texas, so definitely not Canadian

And to those wondering; yes he does work for GTR.

Oh.

GTR’s social media team have said, on multiple occasions, that the announcer is Canadian. Indeed, there have been several such responses on Twitter this afternoon/evening.

Is this the biggest social media fib since ‘we’re going to retro-fit tables to 700s’?

 

[APUK002]

Oh.

GTR’s social media team have said, on multiple occasions, that the announcer is Canadian. Indeed, there have been several such responses on Twitter this afternoon/evening.

Is this the biggest social media fib since ‘we’re going to retro-fit tables to 700s’?

There are retro fitting them,haven’t you seen?

 

[Skimble19]

I don't *think* any have been retro-fitted yet, although the newer units do have them as standard.

Oh.

GTR’s social media team have said, on multiple occasions, that the announcer is Canadian. Indeed, there have been several such responses on Twitter this afternoon/evening.

Is this the biggest social media fib since ‘we’re going to retro-fit tables to 700s’?

Oh that's helpful of them He's definitely not Canadian!

 

[MML]

I didn't think it could get any worse. The half hourly 'See it, Say it, Sorted' crackling Dalek voice was bad enough, particularly when it breaks into the more useful station announcements. Now we have a Texan telling us about some PR propaganda to inform us about (some would say debatable) 'service improvements' under a Railplan banner for 2 years time.
Where do they get this garbage from ?
Just as well they didn't use a Donald Trump voice, otherwise the darned message would be repeated again, I say again, to emphasise every sentence. That's every sentence. That would be really bad. Really really bad folks.

 

[TheAdelante]

The American announcer is actually Canadian.

The two accents are very different from each other. I hope I hear this voice some day...

 

[MML]

Our Texan (or should that be Canadian) friend, was spinning the propaganda again this afternoon regarding the improvements from 2020 of new trains with more seats. Imagine the groans from customers on the 1720 service to Bedford which was operated by a short-formed 8-car unit rather than the normal 12-car unit.
It kept repeating the message throughout the journey as those squashed inside, standing in the aisles looked out of the window when passing Cricklewood only to see a 12-car unit 700/1 parked in the sidings.

It would appear the PR spin bears little relation to the real world reality. Talk about rubbing salt into the wound.

 

[Failed Unit]

Our Texan (or should that be Canadian) friend, was spinning the propaganda again this afternoon regarding the improvements from 2020 of new trains with more seats. Imagine the groans from customers on the 1720 service to Bedford which was operated by a short-formed 8-car unit rather than the normal 12-car unit.
It kept repeating the message throughout the journey as those squashed inside, standing in the aisles looked out of the window when passing Cricklewood only to see a 12-car unit 700/1 parked in the sidings.

It would appear the PR spin bears little relation to the real world reality. Talk about rubbing salt into the wound.

I bit like every time they tweet about it.

Barrage of replies about slower trains, less frequent, less comfortable trains and fewer seats.

What stations win (if you don’t want to go to the core). Welwyn North and Ashwell and Morden. 2 stations with some of the lowest footfall?

 

[bramling]

I bit like every time they tweet about it.

Barrage of replies about slower trains, less frequent, less comfortable trains and fewer seats.

What stations win (if you don’t want to go to the core). Welwyn North and Ashwell and Morden. 2 stations with some of the lowest footfall?

I’m actually surprised how much fury there is in Hitchin. Sure Hitchin gets vastly inferior trains and slower journeys, plus the well-known Thameslink levels of reliability, but I would have thought the through services might have appealed to at least some people. But it seems the local reaction is even more negative than even I would have expected, for somewhere which is getting more seats in the peaks, sort of at any rate.

The Peterborough route is still stuck with 8-car trains for some peak shoulder services, and they also get 387s on certain services which means fewer seats compared to 365s. Again this hardly counts as a win.

Baldock wins in the fact that it gets starting services, but getting a seat in today’s Royston starters would never be a problem anyway.

 

[Failed Unit]

Surprised how unhappy Stevenage is as well. They can get to the core and have non-stop services to kings cross.

Hadley Wood, Oakleigh Park and New Southgate are seriously unimpressed they are losing out on the consultation timetable to Hornsey and Harringey. I assume they will get their trains to Moorgate back next year when the extra services to Moorgate are alledged to appear.

 

[MML]

For the Thameslink route, they need enough 12-car units for ALL the Bedford, Peterborough and Cambridge originating Thameslink services. If necessary, extending some 8-car units to 12-car to ensure sufficient units are available.

Those services originating from Luton which will typically be 700/0 units, should become semi-fasts with calls at Luton Airport Parkway, Harpenden, St Albans City, Radlett, Elstree & Borehamwood, West Hampstead Thameslink then London St Pancras and the core.

Those services originating from St Albans should continue to operate all stations to London.

And once Corby is electrified, EMT should operate 12-car units with calls at Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford, Luton and Luton Airport Parkway only at 30 minute intervals. Thus releasing capacity on 'fast' Thameslink services.

 

[bramling]

Surprised how unhappy Stevenage is as well. They can get to the core and have non-stop services to kings cross.

Hadley Wood, Oakleigh Park and New Southgate are seriously unimpressed they are losing out on the consultation timetable to Hornsey and Harringey. I assume they will get their trains to Moorgate back next year when the extra services to Moorgate are alledged to appear.

One service I can see being a problem is the 0738 Royston to KX. It’s prime commuter time for Baldock, Letchworth and Hitchin, and presumably there will be demand from Royston as presumably it’s pressure from there which has had it extended beyond Baldock. I haven’t studied in detail to see how easily this might work, but replacing the 2x365 with 3x387 using SDO would offer extra capacity at a crucial time. The 387s could be taken from one of the Peterborough fasts, and replaced with 3x365. This would of course require one extra 365 diagram - I wonder where there are spare 365s?!

One can probably add Watton at Stone as a winner, off peak at least. 2tph and less stops to London.

On the other side, try doing a journey from Hitchin to Crews Hill next week! Off peak this goes from a through train to three. To be fair it’s probably not the most popular journey.

 

[Cletus]

The two accents are very different from each other. I hope I hear this voice some day...

Or just say he's from north America?

 

[Bald Rick]

Our Texan (or should that be Canadian) friend, was spinning the propaganda again this afternoon regarding the improvements from 2020 of new trains with more seats. Imagine the groans from customers on the 1720 service to Bedford which was operated by a short-formed 8-car unit rather than the normal 12-car unit.
It kept repeating the message throughout the journey as those squashed inside, standing in the aisles looked out of the window when passing Cricklewood only to see a 12-car unit 700/1 parked in the sidings.

It would appear the PR spin bears little relation to the real world reality. Talk about rubbing salt into the wound.

Not wishing to be picky (alright, it’s very picky) but there are only 2 Thameslink trains that are the 1720 to Bedford:

1) the 1630 off Sevenoaks is 1720d Peckham Rye (and is booked 8 cars)
2) the 1535 off Brighton is 1720d St Albans City, is booked 12 cars, and was tonight: I was on it!

Assuming you mean the 1722 off Blackfriars (booked 12 car) - it’s not so very long ago that was a 4 car...

 

[Fuzzytop]

Anyone know if there are any 365s still booked to Cambridge in this final week pre-timetable change? Under the new timetable they only go as far as Royston, and as I'm in London on Thursday it'd be nice to get a 365 all the way one last time.

 

[Hadders]

I'm not looking forward to travelling to work next week. Currently there are 8 trains from Stevenage to Kings Cross between 07:00 and 07:59:

0707 arrives 0734
0715 arrives 0756
0724 arrives 0750
0731 arrives 0816
0736 arrives 0800
0738 arrives 0805
0742 arrives 0815
0758 arrives 0821

Of these 8 trains the 0715 and 0731 are overtaken so are not viable for travelling to London so this effectively leaves 6 trains suitable for travelling to London. All of these are 8 or 12 cars.

From next week we'll have the following in the critical hour between 07:00 and 07:59:

0710 arrives 0750
0717 arrives 0737
0720 arrives 0744
0732 arrives 0759
0740 arrives 0820
0747 arrives 0814
0751 arrives 0814

Of these the 0710 and 0740 are not viable for travelling to London as they are overtaken. This leaves only 5 trains. Note also that there is a 28 minute gap in fast trains between the departures at 0649 and 0717. All of these trains will have 8 or 12 cars but overall there are carriages in this critical hour than in the current timetable.

After the 0751 service there's then another 28 minute gap until the next fast train at 0817. There is an 0810 departure but this is overtaken by the 0817.

I suspect the 0717 is going to be proper wedged given that it's the first fast train for almost half an hour. This timetable doesn't look good and I can see why Stevenage passengers are not happy.

I also have serious concerns about the ability of St Pancras station to cope in the evening peak. I fear the platforms will become dangerously overcrowded. I do hope I'm wrong but suspect I won't be.

 

[bramling]

I'm not looking forward to travelling to work next week. Currently there are 8 trains from Stevenage to Kings Cross between 07:00 and 07:59:

0707 arrives 0734
0715 arrives 0756
0724 arrives 0750
0731 arrives 0816
0736 arrives 0800
0738 arrives 0805
0742 arrives 0815
0758 arrives 0821

Of these 8 trains the 0715 and 0731 are overtaken so are not viable for travelling to London so this effectively leaves 6 trains suitable for travelling to London. All of these are 8 or 12 cars.

From next week we'll have the following in the critical hour between 07:00 and 07:59:

0710 arrives 0750
0717 arrives 0737
0720 arrives 0744
0732 arrives 0759
0740 arrives 0820
0747 arrives 0814
0751 arrives 0814

Of these the 0710 and 0740 are not viable for travelling to London as they are overtaken. This leaves only 5 trains. Note also that there is a 28 minute gap in fast trains between the departures at 0649 and 0717. All of these trains will have 8 or 12 cars but overall there are carriages in this critical hour than in the current timetable.

After the 0751 service there's then another 28 minute gap until the next fast train at 0817. There is an 0810 departure but this is overtaken by the 0817.

I suspect the 0717 is going to be proper wedged given that it's the first fast train for almost half an hour. This timetable doesn't look good and I can see why Stevenage passengers are not happy.

I also have serious concerns about the ability of St Pancras station to cope in the evening peak. I fear the platforms will become dangerously overcrowded. I do hope I'm wrong but suspect I won't be.

Currently many GN stations see commuters queuing at specific spots on the platform in the morning. These self-same people will be using St Pancras and other core stations - except that instead of virtually everyone travelling to the same destination - London - there will be at least four separate groups, Cambridge, Peterborough, Bedford fast, and Luton slow. More groups will follow as further Thameslink services materialise. The only hope is that the distribution through the core spreads things. Whether this is enough remains to be seen, but it’s certainly going to be a nightmare during disruption.

 

[Hadders]

You'd have thought GTR would've introduced carnets from GN stations to London Thameslink to help in getting people away from St Pancras. Maybe isn't a huge number involved but it all helps.

Then again, this is GTR....

 

[Fred26]

You'd have thought GTR would've introduced carnets from GN stations to London Thameslink to help in getting people away from St Pancras. Maybe isn't a huge number involved but it all helps.

Then again, this is GTR....

Yeah, they've explicitly stated in staff briefs that carnets to the core won't be happening.

 

[arb]

Here's a case that I haven't seen mentioned on here before: price increases due to journeys that are currently off-peak becoming peak in the new timetable, crucially coupled with the case that regularly buying off-peak day returns for that particular journey is cheaper than buying a season ticket.

This affects the 08:58 from Ely to Cambridge, which becomes peak in the new timetable because Great Northern haven't updated (and haven't said they are going to update) the off-peak times in restriction Y4 to match the new train times in the new timetable. I commute from Ely to Cambridge, and whilst this doesn't affect me because I commute at a variety of peak/off-peak times and have a season ticket, I do sometimes use the 08:58, and recognise some of the regulars on that train and have heard them discussing the issue.

Local petition: https://www.change.org/p/great-nort...om-ely-to-cambridge-or-make-the-8-45-off-peak

Detailed analysis: https://grumpytrainuser.wordpress.c...dge-part-2-peak-off-peak-and-full-size-bikes/

How are the off-peak restriction codes that refer to specific train times typically handled when the timetable changes? Is Y4 likely to be updated on May 20th, completely ignoring people who might have made alternative arrangements (possibly inluding buying a season ticket!) based on what journey planners are currently telling them will be peak/off-peak?

 

[sefton]

0710 arrives 0750
0717 arrives 0737
0720 arrives 0744
0732 arrives 0759
0740 arrives 0820
0747 arrives 0814
0751 arrives 0814

Of these the 0710 and 0740 are not viable for travelling to London as they are overtaken. This leaves only 5 trains.

To say overtaken trains are not viable is silly and is simply cutting your nose off.

 

[Failed Unit]

Anyone know if there are any 365s still booked to Cambridge in this final week pre-timetable change? Under the new timetable they only go as far as Royston, and as I'm in London on Thursday it'd be nice to get a 365 all the way one last time.

Yes. 1632 and 1653 ex London are 365s. Many others are as well sure the 1822 normally is. Think the fasts are mainly 387s now.

 

[Hadders]

To say overtaken trains are not viable is silly and is simply cutting your nose off.

Why would anyone get the 0717 or 0740 departures when the 0720, 0747 and 0751 arrive quicker, unless there's disruption?

The 0717 and 0740 are likely to be wedged with people travelling to intermediate stations which is not an insignificant number of people. There is no increase in services from Stevenage to places like Welwyn Garden City, Hatfield, Potters Bar etc. - they are busy now and it won't help anyone if these trains are used by people travelling from Stevenage to London.

 

[TheDavibob]

Yes. 1632 and 1653 ex London are 365s. Many others are as well sure the 1822 normally is. Think the fasts are mainly 387s now.

There's the odd random fast, for example the 1845 going the other way (which is the 1632 turning around). Think 365s are very rare north of Cambridge these days, so only the scattered fasts that start/end in Cambridge are ever going to be 365s. A decent chunk of the Ely fasts are 700s too (though I have no idea which), and anything continuing to Kings Lynn is definitely a 387.

 

[Failed Unit]

Reading the earlier comment about St Pancras. Not sure if that will be an issue in normal service. I am sure a am not the only one on great northern that wants to use a core station but no direct trains exist until at least 2020 - if ever.

Finsbury Park is actually my concern. It already struggles to cope. The underground frequently shuts because of overcrowding. If the can manage cross platform changes then this may be ok. But when trains stop on the fast it is not a good situation. I think more people will use Finsbury Park now. For example best way from WGC - Gatwick airport will be to change there. It really needs a footbridge to avoid needing to use the subways.

 

[700007]

There's the odd random fast, for example the 1845 going the other way (which is the 1632 turning around). Think 365s are very rare north of Cambridge these days, so only the scattered fasts that start/end in Cambridge are ever going to be 365s. A decent chunk of the Ely fasts are 700s too (though I have no idea which), and anything continuing to Kings Lynn is definitely a 387.

The 1714 King's Cross to Ely is booked to be an 8-car 700 from my observations.

 

[paul332]

I haven't seen mention here of the fact that the fast Cambridge off-peak service goes down from 2 non-stop per hour to 1 (from Kings Cross). This overtakes the Thameslink semi-fast and a slow. So to all intents and purposes the Cambridge service has halved. An hourly service to such an important destination is ludicrous.

Return isn't much better - a 10-minute gap between fast and semi-fast trains each hour. Pathetic. Locals and tourists will be desolate. Coach operators must be rubbing their wallets in glee.

 

[TheDavibob]

I haven't seen mention here of the fact that the fast Cambridge off-peak service goes down from 2 non-stop per hour to 1 (from Kings Cross). This overtakes the Thameslink semi-fast and a slow. So to all intents and purposes the Cambridge service has halved. An hourly service to such an important destination is ludicrous.

Return isn't much better - a 10-minute gap between fast and semi-fast trains each hour. Pathetic. Locals and tourists will be desolate. Coach operators must be rubbing their wallets in glee.

No it hasn't?

Two non-stop per hour, moved forwards a couple of minutes to depart Kings Cross at xx12 (to Ely) and xx42 (to Lynn, with an extra stop at Cambridge North).

Yes, the semifast is now overtaken and is irrelevant.