Great Northern Fleet - 379s

[xxjcz]

I’m

Are these been refurbished or at least refreshed before returning to service or at least replacing all the broken buttons?

im also hoping they receive some sort of software update or changeover to windows to allow interworking with the eventual remaining 9 or so 387s. I don’t work with electrostars so not sure how straightforward it would be to change the software on the 379s but would love to see it done eventually.

Will be interesting to also see if they add the numbering to the other side on the front or leave the triangle there.


And since 387172-174 now belong to GTR, I wonder if they’ll do anything to standardise them with the other regional 387s interior wise

 

[Peter Sarf]

I’m

im also hoping they receive some sort of software update or changeover to windows to allow interworking with the eventual remaining 9 or so 387s. I don’t work with electrostars so not sure how straightforward it would be to change the software on the 379s but would love to see it done eventually.

If the operating system is different then my guess is the operating system will not get changed - huge great safety case to go through I suspect.

Will be interesting to also see if they add the numbering to the other side on the front or leave the triangle there.


And since 387172-174 now belong to GTR, I wonder if they’ll do anything to standardise them with the other regional 387s interior wise

 

[JonathanH]

And since 387172-174 now belong to GTR, I wonder if they’ll do anything to standardise them with the other regional 387s interior wise

387172-174 are leased by GTR, there is no "belong". I doubt there is funding available to replace the seat covers before they are due replacement. More interesting is whether there is funding to do something with the 379s, which represent a reduction in capacity relative to 387s.

 

[St. Paddy]

57306 & 379007/010 arriving at Hornsey shortly

003/025 returning to Worksop

379008/22 moved to Hornsey 30/5. 012/029 returned to Worksop

 

[RacsoMoquette]

I have experienced travelling on Thameslink Class 700s operating Great Northern Diagrams such as Kings Cross to Cambridge (Non Stop) and also Ely services. To be brutally honest I would much rather travel on a Class 700 than a Class 387, this is due to the latter featuring a much more spacious interior which is almost a people soaker! while the former is extremely cramped with the latest Electrostar builds featuring a rather narrow isle. Whenever I am on a Class 387 at or departing Kings Cross the always seems to be endless hordes of people strolling up and down the train in search of available seats, sometimes right up until the train passes Finsbury Park! however often people have no trouble finding available seats on Class 700s. Do the units have a similar number of individual seats on a twelve coach 700 to a 387 coupled?

Also do the Great Northern Class 717s on the Moorgate Line ever operate any diagrams beyond Stevenage or Welwyn Garden City? Would any ever operate to Letchworth or Baldock in peak diagrams? I recall back in FCC days Class 313s did operate to Letchworth from Moorgate routinely. Are the Class 717s under utilised? I always see a fair few parked up in Hornsey depot and selected southern ECML sidings.

 

[bramling]

I have experienced travelling on Thameslink Class 700s operating Great Northern Diagrams such as Kings Cross to Cambridge (Non Stop) and also Ely services. To be brutally honest I would much rather travel on a Class 700 than a Class 387, this is due to the latter featuring a much more spacious interior which is almost a people soaker! while the former is extremely cramped with the latest Electrostar builds featuring a rather narrow isle. Whenever I am on a Class 387 at or departing Kings Cross the always seems to be endless hordes of people strolling up and down the train in search of available seats, sometimes right up until the train passes Finsbury Park! however often people have no trouble finding available seats on Class 700s. Do the units have a similar number of individual seats on a twelve coach 700 to a 387 coupled?

Also do the Great Northern Class 717s on the Moorgate Line ever operate any diagrams beyond Stevenage or Welwyn Garden City? Would any ever operate to Letchworth or Baldock in peak diagrams? I recall back in FCC days Class 313s did operate to Letchworth from Moorgate routinely. Are the Class 717s under utilised? I always see a fair few parked up in Hornsey depot and selected southern ECML sidings.

On the latter points, they have been pretty stubborn at not going north of Stevenage. However recent timetables have converted the late evening ECS movements from Stevenage to Letchworth Carriage Sidings into passenger workings. So there are something like three 717 services which run as far as Letchworth.

Yes the 717s are massively under utilised. The 2018 timetable was designed to provide a full 4tph service to both Welwyn and Hertford North, with two of the latter extending to Stevenage, plus various peak extras. Since Covid I think I’m right in saying that during the off-peak more of the fleet are stabled or undergoing maintenance then are out working.

 

[class717]

Believe there’s two 717s to Letchworth in passenger service, the last two Hertford Loop trains from Moorgate at night (the very last being from KX), don’t think there are any southbound passenger 717s from Letchworth though.

 

[Royston Vasey]

On the latter points, they have been pretty stubborn at not going north of Stevenage. However recent timetables have converted the late evening ECS movements from Stevenage to Letchworth Carriage Sidings into passenger workings. So there are something like three 717 services which run as far as Letchworth.

Yes the 717s are massively under utilised. The 2018 timetable was designed to provide a full 4tph service to both Welwyn and Hertford North, with two of the latter extending to Stevenage, plus various peak extras. Since Covid I think I’m right in saying that during the off-peak more of the fleet are stabled or undergoing maintenance then are out working.

They're a lot less powerful than 700s and only 85 mph but as 12 car slow line crowdbusters I do wonder if the 717s could be useful in a post-387 Great Northern, taking on peak extras for which there won't be enough 379s.

The toilets in the 700s are supposedly modular; if they could convert some 717s with a toilet or two each, they could at least run to Letchworth and Peterborough as 12s. They have SDO but crossings/signals would be an issue on the Cambridge branch, not that crowding is an issue this far out. And obviously we don't want them on our patch... they can solve somebody else's crowding problem while we enjoy the disinfected comfy 379s

 

[jon0844]

717s can have one accessible toilet added. I doubt they ever will, but the 'manual' for the train documents it.

 

[Royston Vasey]

717s can have one accessible toilet added. I doubt they ever will, but the 'manual' for the train documents it.

Add a toilet and "First Class" antimacassars on a few rows of seats, few passengers would tell the difference to a 700!

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes the 717s are massively under utilised. The 2018 timetable was designed to provide a full 4tph service to both Welwyn and Hertford North, with two of the latter extending to Stevenage, plus various peak extras. Since Covid I think I’m right in saying that during the off-peak more of the fleet are stabled or undergoing maintenance then are out working.

The 2018 timetable would require 18 units off peak and 21 in the peaks. The current off peak timetable requires 10 units. I can't be bothered to work out the peak requirement.

 

[jon0844]

Add a toilet and "First Class" antimacassars on a few rows of seats, few passengers would tell the difference to a 700!

I think most people would see the difference between the seats themselves!

In any case, for trains that get very busy on their routes with multiple stops and short turnaround times, one toilet would be a joke without the ability to empty them regularly. You'd have most toilets out of use in no time, which would be potentially worse than having no toilet at all.

But back to 379s to get on topic again, which do have a nice first class compared to the 387s and two toilets per 4 cars..!

 

[Mikey C]

At some point surely the Moorgate services will need an uplift? I caught a train from Hertford North early this evening (18:14), and it was well used, with plenty of people boarding at each station.

Run a better service, and more people will use this route, it's farcical how we seem to have such a divide in frequencies in London, depending on who operates the service.

 

[jon0844]

I do think we're ready to go back to trying 4tph, or at least 3tph, off peak on the GN inners now.

 

[Skimble19]

They're a lot less powerful than 700s and only 85 mph but as 12 car slow line crowdbusters I do wonder if the 717s could be useful in a post-387 Great Northern, taking on peak extras for which there won't be enough 379s.

The toilets in the 700s are supposedly modular; if they could convert some 717s with a toilet or two each, they could at least run to Letchworth and Peterborough as 12s. They have SDO but crossings/signals would be an issue on the Cambridge branch, not that crowding is an issue this far out. And obviously we don't want them on our patch... they can solve somebody else's crowding problem while we enjoy the disinfected comfy 379s

No need, not all the 387s are moving south.

 

[Sutton in Ant]

I took a trip on a Great Northern train a week ago and the rolling stock was a Thameslink 700 and I believe that is when the 379s go into service. I would say that the future rolling stock will be the 700s which I think that the rolling stock will be the 379s and the 700s. 379s, doing the Kings Lynn and Ely service. The 700s will be doing the Cambridge and Peterborough service.

 

[RacsoMoquette]

At some point surely the Moorgate services will need an uplift? I caught a train from Hertford North early this evening (18:14), and it was well used, with plenty of people boarding at each station.

Run a better service, and more people will use this route, it's farcical how we seem to have such a divide in frequencies in London, depending on who operates the service.

Interestingly when I used the Northern City and travelled to Hertford North (albeit changing trains to explore some of the stations) it struck me just how empty the train was! The Moorgate line was pretty much only us onboard bar a few customers, and the Hertford Loop did not see many customers board. I appreciate I travelled off peak at around eleven AM , but I would expect to see more patronage than that.

 

[jon0844]

Services from Hertford/Stevenage and WGC are often extremely busy by the time they're about half way to Moorgate (like New Barnet, or perhaps Cuffley?). They've always been nearly empty by the time they're nearing their destination because, certainly on the ECML side, if you were going that far you'd be taking a faster train.

 

[Royston Vasey]

No need, not all the 387s are moving south.

Hoping to see official word on that soon!

 

[Failed Unit]

But back to 379s to get on topic again, which do have a nice first class compared to the 387s and two toilets per 4 cars..!

Don’t they have the same layout. A toilet in coach 2(accessible) & 3 (normal)? The 1st class area having a walk to the accessible toilet.

Nice little collection of 379s now when you pass Hornsey, but not close enough to really see them well or get numbers.

 

[jon0844]

Don’t they have the same layout. A toilet in coach 2(accessible) & 3 (normal)? The 1st class area having a walk to the accessible toilet.

Nice little collection of 379s now when you pass Hornsey, but not close enough to really see them well or get numbers.

Yes, I think the layout of each coach is identical when it comes to toilets and so on, but with a proper first class that can actually be enforced without claims of not realising it was first class. The ex-GWR ones being particularly hard to notice.

 

[bramling]

Yes, I think the layout of each coach is identical when it comes to toilets and so on, but with a proper first class that can actually be enforced without claims of not realising it was first class. The ex-GWR ones being particularly hard to notice.

The first class is over-sized compared to the 387s. Given the space taken up is more similar to a 700/0, one wonders if GTR will either swap things round like they did with the 387s, or could we see the rear first class permanently declassified like on the 700s? Or is it time first went altogether on GN?

 

[Failed Unit]

If as at the moment first class is real on the 379s, it is possible people from Cambridge (and stations north) will be prepared to pay for it and the loading will increase.

 

[jon0844]

I don't think they intend to change any layouts, but I suppose at some point they'll get the 387 upgrade with new screens, updated power sockets with 2 USB-A (but really by now it should be USB-C). Perhaps they may do something then? Mind you the ex-GWR units need doing first.

They'll need to be all put the same way around so the accessible coaches are in a known position (for assists) so that means first class will be coach 1 and 5 in one direction, and coach 4 and 8 the other.

So the 'first class at front' won't work.

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't think they intend to change any layouts, but I suppose at some point they'll get the 387 upgrade with new screens, updated power sockets with 2 USB-A (but really by now it should be USB-C). Perhaps they may do something then? Mind you the ex-GWR units need doing first.

They'll need to be all put the same way around so the accessible coaches are in a known position (for assists) so that means first class will be coach 1 and 5 in one direction, and coach 4 and 8 the other.

So the 'first class at front' won't work.

Absolutely, People will move up the platform to where they need to be when they train approaches, but I suspect many won’’t be able to tell the difference between the 387 and the 379. Was trying to figure out if the first was the same place as the 387 but just located behind the driver’s cab. Pretty sure it is.

 

[bramling]

Absolutely, People will move up the platform to where they need to be when they train approaches, but I suspect many won’’t be able to tell the difference between the 387 and the 379. Was trying to figure out if the first was the same place as the 387 but just located behind the driver’s cab. Pretty sure it is.

It’s essentially the opposite of the 387s, so runs from the cab to the place where the divide is on the 387s.

I think it’s the case that first was arranged like this for the 5-car units introduced on Southern, and the position of the divider seems to have been carried over onto all subsequent Electrostar builds. Naturally this means over-provision on a 4-car train, hence the rather awkward solutions devised since.

Amazingly it does actually appear correct that the area used currently on the 387s is actually what the builders envisaged.

Why they don’t just put it in the area behind the cabs is beyond me.

 

[xxjcz]

I’m guessing the two peak pbo services re-introduced tomorrow will not be done by 379s? I believe the two services are part of 1 diagram so only need 1 extra 8 car train in service for this? Anyone know what’s covering 387201’s absence since that one was covering 387101

 

[Failed Unit]

I’m guessing the two peak pbo services re-introduced tomorrow will not be done by 379s? I believe the two services are part of 1 diagram so only need 1 extra 8 car train in service for this? Anyone know what’s covering 387201’s absence since that one was covering 387101

I understand that is a daigram that will be 379 once they are online. They tend to keep the diagrams fairly small at the beginning so if it is cancelled it has minimal impact. I guess the drivers will comment about how different they are to the 387s. But normally as a unit is introduced you get a lot of minor delays as train crew get used to the quirks of a unit.

 

[bramling]

I’m guessing the two peak pbo services re-introduced tomorrow will not be done by 379s? I believe the two services are part of 1 diagram so only need 1 extra 8 car train in service for this?

The extra Peterborough is a 700/0, at least to begin with. It’s probably reasonably safe to say this is likely to be a likely 379 diagram when they start.

One presumes it is lack of stock preventing the second Peterborough return service, as that seems to have died a death.

 

[Mag_seven]

Just a gentle reminder that discussion in this thread should be confined to Great Northern Class 379s. Other threads can be started or added to for other unit classes.