Class 170101
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Isn't there a "wired" siding London side of Wickford that's long enough.
It fits an 8 car 321 as I recall from seeing but this was many years ago.
Isn't there a "wired" siding London side of Wickford that's long enough.
Could they not just use a 3/4 car Flirt in electric mode?Ah of course I was looking at the branch stations, forgot about Wickford itself. It's a tricky one but they must have thought of this when specifying 120m long units. Unless of course they intend to run Southminster services direct from somewhere else (e.g. Shenfield in the off-peak, London in the peak). I haven't heard of any such plans though?
So that would be fine for the 5 car shuttle.It fits an 8 car 321 as I recall from seeing but this was many years ago.
So that would be fine for the 5 car shuttle.
Could they not just use a 3/4 car Flirt in electric mode?
To begin with, I almost guarantee it. Long-term though I'm not sure.Wivenswold said:Personally think they'll end up with a small fleet of 321s or 360s for branch lines. Based on nothing but gut feeling.
Hard to say given the proposed service changes, but the current fleet of 26 sets (5 x 153, 9 x 156 and 12 x 170) is being replaced by 38 FLIRTs (14 x 3-car, 24 x 4-car).Aren't the numbers of flirts already quite slim compared to the DMU fleet that they are intended to replace?
Hard to say given the proposed service changes, but the current fleet of 26 sets (5 x 153, 9 x 156 and 12 x 170) is being replaced by 38 FLIRTs (14 x 3-car, 24 x 4-car).
Bit off topic but does anyone know where the 156s and 153s are going? I presume either to northern or scotrail but nothing seems to have been said about them? Will they be scraped?
Nothing announced for either fleet. The 153s are not PRM compliant so as it stands they cannot operate after 31/12/19. The 156s, though, have been modified for PRM compliance - my money would be on them going to EMT (but that is just speculation).Bit off topic but does anyone know where the 156s and 153s are going? I presume either to northern or scotrail but nothing seems to have been said about them? Will they be scraped?
Why not keep a few 360s for the line? I don’t think they’re going anywhere else at the moment.
Ah, I might have been getting my wires crossed then with the Aventra fleet. Quite a few people are saying that fleet is undersized compared to what it is replacing, but given that the flirt fleet has got that headroom you mention, I suppose it is feasible for them to cover some services.
Do we know if the 720's will be used on the Southminster branch?
Bit off topic but does anyone know where the 156s and 153s are going? I presume either to northern or scotrail but nothing seems to have been said about them? Will they be scraped?
As far as I know the 360s can't run down there anyway, so they'd need to make adaptations to either the units or the line, neither I suspect would be justifiable. If any 360s are going to hang around for branch line work (which I'm sceptical of, the only units I expect may stay behind much beyond the new fleet introduction are the non-Renatus 321s) it would be on the routes they already serve - Clacton/Walton/Colchester Town.Because the bid is based around an entire new fleet of only two types, to reduce costs associated with multiple types and provide customers with a more modern up to date train.
They shouldn't keep some of the old stock on to entertain a few enthusiasts.
Because the bid is based around an entire new fleet of only two types, to reduce costs associated with multiple types and provide customers with a more modern up to date train.
They will not be able to retain the 170s, as they are part of the solution in Wales for PRM compliance from 01/01/20.DMU-wise I think they'll probably be alright unless there is any delay in the 755 introduction. They don't need too many units to be ready to retire the Sprinters and LHCs and just run with 170s and 755s for a year or two until the 755s are to be replaced. This of course assumes they can keep the 170s long enough before they need to go to Wales, but that concern is for the Stadler thread.
Assuming things go to plan (a big if admittedly!), the first 755s come into service in May 2019, so if that means 170s are released from July onwards, that should be plenty of time for moving and driver training. Once driver training is complete, the moves over should be pretty straightforward and all 755s should be in service by the end of 2019, so assuming TfW can cope without all the 170s for a few weeks/months in early 2020, then they should be ok. Possibly GA will even release all their 170s before all the 755s come in, and continue using Sprinters to cover the gaps.Isn't that deadline largely accepted as going to be missed though? Not that receiving the 170s late will help, but I can't see the 170s being released in time to move across, run driver training etc. and enter service by 01-Jan even if things with the 755s go fairly smoothly.
The bimode FLIRT's are expected to do more than the current mishmash of DMU's currently do
No, they should keep them to prevent a substantial downgrade of capacity on a number of 8 car EMUs that are being replaced with 5 car EMUs
There are only 4 x 3 Airline rows in the unit. I agree they are daft, as that means practically 4 seats will be rarely used. All other 3 seats are in bays, so same as 321's/360's. Re dwell times, Bombardier and GA seem convinced wider doors are the answer. Time will tell who is right.3+2 airline on 720s is a far, far worse proposition than 3+2 facing on 321s. It (720s) surely won’t get used without dwell time issues? 100+ seats per coach is into the realms of double decker stock we are told by so many could never work for dwell times through two doors.
You keep staying a 720/5 is a capacity downgrade on a 321 x 8 car formation, but looking at seat capacity that is incorrect. 321/3 & 321/4 have 256 seats each or 512 in a 8 car formation. a 720/5 has 540 seats. You focus on the train length ignoring that items such as 24m carriages, lack of 2 x First class compartments, lack of 2 x Cabs and 3 less areas for couplers/gangway doors, means that you can provide more seats in a 120m train length than the 160m train length of the 8 car. Yes a 720/5 only has ten (wider) vestibules for standing rather than 16 on a 321 x 8, but given GA have said all peak formations to/from London will be 10 car, do you really think (outside of disruption) that off peak 5 cars will have significant numbers of standees?
And you keep mis-representing what I am saying and honestly I'm starting to ged fed up with it, since I mentioned capacity and not seating and you know that but you continue to mis-represent me and make disingenuous posts.You keep staying a 720/5 is a capacity downgrade on a 321 x 8 car formation, but looking at seat capacity that is incorrect.
321/3 & 321/4 have 256 seats each or 512 in a 8 car formation. a 720/5 has 540 seats. You focus on the train length ignoring that items such as 24m carriages, lack of 2 x First class compartments, lack of 2 x Cabs and 3 less areas for couplers/gangway doors, means that you can provide more seats in a 120m train length than the 160m train length of the 8 car. Yes a 720/5 only has ten (wider) vestibules for standing rather than 16 on a 321 x 8,
But given GA have said all peak formations to/from London will be 10 car, do you really think (outside of disruption) that off peak 5 cars will have significant numbers of standees?
The whole thing will end up with old stock being kept on to reduce overcrowding in the short-term with new stock ordered to top up the current orders. That's not my opinion, it's the opinion of 2 senior Railway people who know an awful lot more about running railways than I would. Abellio haven't ordered enough units and that's going to be painfully clear that they'll need the old stock to hang around longer in the next 18 months.