Greater Anglia Bombardier Aventras (Class 720): Technical discussion and introduction

[dk1]

Good to see that 18 seats per unit are to be removed from the doorway areas to allow better flow. Most people with any common sense could’ve told them that long before the first unit entered service.

 

[306024]

Unfortunately common sense and franchise bidding are rarely mentioned in the same sentence. Apart from that one.

 

[warwickshire]

Monday 27th February 2023. www.realtimetrains.co.uk
5Q57 1223 Ilford E.M.U.D to Derby Litchurch Lane 720 move by Gbrf.
Is this a move for the seat refurbishment on the 720s. Will all the 720s need dragging back to and forth from Derby for the whole fleet to be done? Or is at another faulty 720 to be dragged back to Derby for repair?
Does anyone kindly know any further information please on tomorrows move?
Thank you.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Good to see that 18 seats per unit are to be removed from the doorway areas to allow better flow. Most people with any common sense could’ve told them that long before the first unit entered service.

Indeed and dont believe for one minute that Alstom have done it for nothing

 

[dk1]

Indeed and dont believe for one minute that Alstom have done it for nothing

You can’t blame them either. The customer (GA/DfT) should’ve known better

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

You can’t blame them either. The customer (GA/DfT) should’ve known better

For sure but another cost the industry has to absorb. I wonder if they are the building the final units in this configuration then will they lose 20 of the original configuration units they say they don't need.

 

[dk1]

For sure but another cost the industry has to absorb. I wonder if they are the building the final units in this configuration then will they lose 20 of the original configuration units they say they don't need.

I doubt it. Just one of those things that has to be absorbed. Still rumours from Stadler that they won’t operate on the West so who knows?

 

[F Great Eastern]

You can’t blame them either. The customer (GA/DfT) should’ve known better

They wanted to max seat numbers to curry favour with the DFT at the end of the day.

There's different people at the top of Abellio operationally now who think it is lunacy also.

 

[JonathanH]

Still rumours from Stadler that they won’t operate on the West so who knows?

If that happened, wouldn't there simply be a direct switch of 12-car 745s for 10-car 720s from the Essex routes? It shouldn't lead to an overall increase in the unit requirement.

 

[dk1]

If that happened, wouldn't there simply be a direct switch of 12-car 745s for 10-car 720s from the Essex routes? It shouldn't lead to an overall increase in the unit requirement.

You’d think so & getting the 745s off the West makes so much sense.

They wanted to max seat numbers to curry favour with the DFT at the end of the day.

There's different people at the top of Abellio operationally now who think it is lunacy also.

Abellio shouldn’t be involved shortly.

 

[AC47461]

583 is back from Derby, seen on Test with 122 at Southend Vic on Friday.

 

[306024]

If that happened, wouldn't there simply be a direct switch of 12-car 745s for 10-car 720s from the Essex routes? It shouldn't lead to an overall increase in the unit requirement.

There are still a few trains missing from the timetable, should they ever return.

A fag packet analysis suggests:

1 x 745 for one peak working Norwich to Liverpool St and return
2 x 745 for Norwich in 90 (or could be 755 due to some of the bid aspirations for 755s being dead for the foreseeable)
4 x 745 for a 15 minute frequency Stansted Express

Also the 745 fleet in the bid assumed 8 x 745/0 for Norwich, 9 x 745/1 for Stansted. The current Norwich timetable requires 10 x 745/0, which is clearly ‘optimistic’ from a fleet of 10. Even if re-written it can’t be resourced with less than 9 x 745/0s

So there could possibly be just 4 x 745s available for GE electric services to replace 720s. That would still leave 10 x 720s required additionally for Stansted to add to the 8 released from the Essex routes.

You can play with these figures a bit depending on fleet availability assumptions.

 

[Trainbike46]

There are still a few trains missing from the timetable, should they ever return.

A fag packet analysis suggests:

1 x 745 for one peak working Norwich to Liverpool St and return
2 x 745 for Norwich in 90 (or could be 755 due to some of the bid aspirations for 755s being dead for the foreseeable)
4 x 745 for a 15 minute frequency Stansted Express

Also the 745 fleet in the bid assumed 8 x 745/0 for Norwich, 9 x 745/1 for Stansted. The current Norwich timetable requires 10 x 745/0, which is clearly ‘optimistic’ from a fleet of 10. Even if re-written it can’t be resourced with less than 9 x 745/0s

So there could possibly be just 4 x 745s available for GE electric services to replace 720s. That would still leave 10 x 720s required additionally for Stansted to add to the 8 released from the Essex routes.

You can play with these figures a bit depending on fleet availability assumptions.

There's a bit of opportunity to play around with 10 car vs 5 car 720s too

I think I read on here that the fleet plan was rather tight before covid (except for the 755s), but now there's people saying GA has too many 720s, which I have to say I doubt that will be true long-term, but for the time being it should mean that GA isn't short of stock, right?

 

[travelworld2]

We do seem to have a situation where there are too many 720s and not enough 745s. As a regular traveller on the Norwich-Liverpool St run, it's frustrating to book a first class ticket but a 745/1 Stansted Express to be waiting on the platform, particularly given that the Stanex stock has no tables to work at at all.

 

[Wivenswold]

Just catching up on news, the latest Modern Railways confirmed that GA will receive the full order and remaining units built will have new seating configuration. The rest will be dragged back to Alstom, with some redundancy in the fleet, I doubt this will have any effect on the removal of the 321s this month.

 

[Bletchleyite]

We do seem to have a situation where there are too many 720s and not enough 745s. As a regular traveller on the Norwich-Liverpool St run, it's frustrating to book a first class ticket but a 745/1 Stansted Express to be waiting on the platform, particularly given that the Stanex stock has no tables to work at at all.

I still find it bizarre that they didn't just order one fleet of 745s and charge a fiver or even a tenner to upgrade to first class on StanEx services. Plenty of people would pay.

 

[dk1]

I still find it bizarre that they didn't just order one fleet of 745s and charge a fiver or even a tenner to upgrade to first class on StanEx services. Plenty of people would pay.

Nobody understands that apart from the long gone persons behind the bid.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Nobody understands that apart from the long gone persons behind the bid.

Probably got a nice fat bonus for a fleeting bit of work.

Common sense would say that GA will soon modify the 745s to all have 1st class, drop the extra luggage racks and put 720s with the luggage racks on some/all Stansted Express. The paranoid in me wonders if they will bother with 745s considering they will have so many spare 720s ...

 

[dk1]

Probably got a nice fat bonus for a fleeting bit of work.

Common sense would say that GA will soon modify the 745s to all have 1st class, drop the extra luggage racks and put 720s with the luggage racks on some/all Stansted Express. The paranoid in me wonders if they will bother with 745s considering they will have so many spare 720s ...

Lots of conflict as to who pays unfortunately. One thing for sure is that they'll not get a cafe bar too.

 

[JM240653]

583 at country end of 1F55 1653 Colchester - Liv St this evening

 

[St. Paddy]

With 121 & 122 in service, does anyone know if any others are reported as delivered for commissioning apart from 124 mentioned upthread

 

[Jammy Dodger]

Just catching up on news, the latest Modern Railways confirmed that GA will receive the full order and remaining units built will have new seating configuration. The rest will be dragged back to Alstom, with some redundancy in the fleet, I doubt this will have any effect on the removal of the 321s this month.

What are the specific modifications that are being made to the remaining 20 (ish?) units (unfortunately I don't have the money to spend on a MR subscription!), and I assume the existing units will be modified to this "new" spec?

 

[The_Train]

With 121 & 122 in service, does anyone know if any others are reported as delivered for commissioning apart from 124 mentioned upthread

Can anyone confirm when 122 entered service (approx) please?

 

[fat_boy_pete]

What are the specific modifications that are being made to the remaining 20 (ish?) units (unfortunately I don't have the money to spend on a MR subscription!), and I assume the existing units will be modified to this "new" spec?

19 seats removed around the vestibules per unit, to aid passenger flow.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

19 seats removed around the vestibules per unit, to aid passenger flow.

I guess that would mean more 2+2 seating near the vestibules then? Assuming this is the case, the areas will look the closest row in the photo below, I assume...

 

[colchesterken]

Sorry if this has been discussed and I missed it
Are they short of a unit that hit the cows near Thorpe or was it minor damage that has been fixed

 

[fat_boy_pete]

I guess that would mean more 2+2 seating near the vestibules then? Assuming this is the case, the areas will look the closest row in the photo below, I assume...

View attachment 130450

That's my understanding, but probably need someone who has been on an altered unit to confirm/take a photo.

 

[Jammy Dodger]

That's my understanding, but probably need someone who has been on an altered unit to confirm/take a photo.

Are there any in service yet?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Sorry if this has been discussed and I missed it
Are they short of a unit that hit the cows near Thorpe or was it minor damage that has been fixed

720 528 was the unit involved; it was back in service roughly two months later. Minor damage only and only one wheelset derailed on the second carriage. The rear unit was 720 573 and was fit to be used to return the passengers evacuated from the front unit to Thorpe le Soken about three hours after the incident.

I should know - I was on it...

Are there any in service yet?

There are, and I didn't get a photo when I was on them yesterday but they have indeed removed one seat in each row of three adjacent to a vestibule and reduced the walls to match.

 

[fat_boy_pete]

Are there any in service yet?

I believe the most recently delivered units are in this format. Presumably the earlier units will need to be cycled back to Derby, unless they set up somewhere in Ilford or Clacton to do the work.