GTR mass cancellations - 18th November

[bramling]

What is your proposed solution for a sudden spike in absence caused by Covid related illness?

Are we saying that without Omicron GTR would have managed to run a full timetabled service today? Saturday cancellations have been an issue on this route for years.

 

[Fincra5]

Drivers change over at Finsbury Park anyway

Not all at all. A lot of the HRH-PBO Diagrams is one drive end to end.

 

[Bald Rick]

Are we saying that without Omicron GTR would have managed to run a full timetabled service today? Saturday cancellations have been an issue on this route for years.

Without covid, yes.

 

[MikeWM]

What is your proposed solution for a sudden spike in absence caused by Covid related illness?

Was Covid around 6 years ago when these problems started? I started a thread here on the subject at the time.

Maybe it is making things worse still, of course.

 

[Bald Rick]

Was Covid around 6 years ago when these problems started? I started a thread here on the subject at the time.

Maybe it is making things worse still, of course.

No, but their training plan is much further forward now, and indeed would have been completed sans Covid. Fa t of the matter is that there are several hundred drivers off, unexpectedly.

 

[MikeWM]

No, but their training plan is much further forward now, and indeed would have been completed sans Covid. Fa t of the matter is that there are several hundred drivers off, unexpectedly.

You may think it is 'unexpected', but I'd have laid good money on it months ago, Covid or not.

For example, see this comment I made on the last Saturday before Christmas in 2019.

 

[Bald Rick]

You may think it is 'unexpected', but I'd have laid good money on it months ago, Covid or not.

For example, see this comment I made on the last Saturday before Christmas in 2019.

Perhaps I’m not explaining myself.

GTR, like many other operators, have historically struggled for crew in the run up to Christmas, and particularly for Saturdays and late turns towards the end of the week. As anyone who is involved in traincrew resourcing know, this is because it becomes more difficult to fill gaps in the roster as crew are more reluctant to do rest days and overtime - understandably they have family commitments etc.

For the last few s GTR has been particular affected because they have had a higher than normal level of training to do over (several new fleets, new routes, ETCS, ATO, rebuilt London Bridge, Kings Cross, etc), and has thus been stretched further for resource. Add in the industrial relations issues a few years back and that was another factor.

This year, all those issues would largely have been over. Even with Covid, the training has been going reasonably well. However according to someone I know, GTR traincrew have been affected by Covid more than almost any other operator (on a %age basis), and have been running tight for months. The timetable change last weekend helped to address this, and freed up resource for the anticipated usual level of ‘pre Christmas difficulty’. However Omicron has hit them hard (London being well ahead of the curve) and thus numbers off are quite astonishing.

 

[theageofthetra]

Perhaps I’m not explaining myself.

GTR, like many other operators, have historically struggled for crew in the run up to Christmas, and particularly for Saturdays and late turns towards the end of the week. As anyone who is involved in traincrew resourcing know, this is because it becomes more difficult to fill gaps in the roster as crew are more reluctant to do rest days and overtime - understandably they have family commitments etc.

For the last few s GTR has been particular affected because they have had a higher than normal level of training to do over (several new fleets, new routes, ETCS, ATO, rebuilt London Bridge, Kings Cross, etc), and has thus been stretched further for resource. Add in the industrial relations issues a few years back and that was another factor.

This year, all those issues would largely have been over. Even with Covid, the training has been going reasonably well. However according to someone I know, GTR traincrew have been affected by Covid more than almost any other operator (on a %age basis), and have been running tight for months. The timetable change last weekend helped to address this, and freed up resource for the anticipated usual level of ‘pre Christmas difficulty’. However Omicron has hit them hard (London being well ahead of the curve) and thus numbers off are quite astonishing.

The % not driving because they are unvaccinated and having to isolate because someone they live with has it will be telling.

 

[Val3ntine]

The % not driving because they are unvaccinated and having to isolate because someone they live with has it will be telling.

This runs the risk of diverting into a potential pro/con vaccine topic.

 

[theageofthetra]

This runs the risk of diverting into a potential pro/con vaccine topic.

Or that the latest rules will lead to more cancellations. In Scotland don't you have to isolate even if double vaccinated and you live with someone who has it.?

 

[Taunton]

What is your proposed solution for a sudden spike in absence caused by Covid related illness?

Possibly for the union not to have banned overtime at the same time. Many of the rest of us, including doubtless management grades on the railway, are having to work extra to cover for various disruptions at present. I would have hoped that the union would be likewise doing everything to run as much service as possible in this situation.

 

[Surreytraveller]

Not all at all. A lot of the HRH-PBO Diagrams is one drive end to end.

I know not all. I didn't say all. I said drivers change over at Finsbury Park in response to someone saying they saw a driver change at Finsbury Park

 

[jon0844]

Possibly for the union not to have banned overtime at the same time. Many of the rest of us, including doubtless management grades on the railway, are having to work extra to cover for various disruptions at present. I would have hoped that the union would be likewise doing everything to run as much service as possible in this situation.

What ban? The Saturday issue wasn't/isn't down to any union action besides the union agreeing changes to planning so drivers could have more Saturdays off, with the downside that if you don't have enough drivers to roster normally, you need to offer it as overtime. Many drivers simply turn down the offer as the diagrams may not be that appealing, or that doing a Sunday instead allows you to go out Friday night etc.

 

[Bald Rick]

Possibly for the union not to have banned overtime at the same time. Many of the rest of us, including doubtless management grades on the railway, are having to work extra to cover for various disruptions at present. I would have hoped that the union would be likewise doing everything to run as much service as possible in this situation.

Not aware of a union ban on overtime on GTR.

 

[ungreat]

Not aware of any overtime ban!

Possibly for the union not to have banned overtime at the same time. Many of the rest of us, including doubtless management grades on the railway, are having to work extra to cover for various disruptions at present. I would have hoped that the union would be likewise doing everything to run as much service as possible in this situation.

 

[Fincra5]

I know not all. I didn't say all. I said drivers change over at Finsbury Park in response to someone saying they saw a driver change at Finsbury Park

My apologies. That's the problem with text I guess. No harm, no foul.

Also there is no overtime ban on GTR... just, like all TOCs which rely on Overtime working. A lot don't want to by Christmas...

 

[choochoochoo]

This year, all those issues would largely have been over. Even with Covid, the training has been going reasonably well.

I'd have to disagree on this one. Especially on the GN side. There a huge backlog of trainees waiting for instructors. And a shortage of instructors too.

on another note, as for the shambles every saturday recently, that was not as major an issue before they moved to depot specific work. That really was the worst decision ever.

 

[MikeWM]

I have to eat my words somewhat here - despite the usual warnings from GN about cancellations, actually there haven't been *any* cancellations on the Kings Lynn/Ely services so far today - the first time that's happened on a Saturday in months.

(The slower Thameslink trains don't appear to have done quite so well though, and the Hertford loop doesn't look to have had a good day either)

 

[Sleepy]

Covid appears to causing quite severe absence problems now, Greater Anglia has reduced timetable starting Monday. Several cancelled services today due to lack of crew - very unusual to see this quantity on GA.

 

[Horizon22]

Covid appears to causing quite severe absence problems now, Greater Anglia has reduced timetable starting Monday. Several cancelled services today due to lack of crew - very unusual to see this quantity on GA.

It is likely to be everywhere on a weekend. Every industry has seen higher than average sickness (even for December) this year - indeed it is in the news regarding the NHS and potential cancelled / suspended routine operations and lack of emergency care cover.

In a railway context, staff shortages will equal cancelled trains. There's no getting away from it; its a reaction to Covid rates and isolation. But somehow for some posters this is unacceptable.

 

[bramling]

It is likely to be everywhere on a weekend. Every industry has seen higher than average sickness (even for December) this year - indeed it is in the news regarding the NHS and potential cancelled / suspended routine operations and lack of emergency care cover.

In a railway context, staff shortages will equal cancelled trains. There's no getting away from it; its a reaction to Covid rates and isolation. But somehow for some posters this is unacceptable.

No one has said the Covid situation isn’t understandable. It’s just that with this situation having gone on for the best part of a decade on GN, one can’t help be cynical about it.

I’m also sceptical about it being completely the fault of Omicron - I couldn’t even make a local one-stop GN journey a few Saturdays ago (notional 6tph service), and that was well before Omicron, and indeed at a time when Covid infections were comparatively low.

It’s also worth adding that GN/TL has never delivered the original May 18 Saturday timetable, with there never yet having been the full 6tph between Royston and Cambridge, with 1tph being missing - though to be fair this isn’t the end of the world.

It does also seem to be the case that crewing on the GN side is rather inflexible. There remains a hell of a lot of “pass” mileage, especially between Hitchin and Finsbury Park, and the way route and traction knowledge has been heavily broken into silos can’t help with the weekend situation.

I’m quite happy to accept Bald Rick’s assertion that things would have been better were it not for Covid, but I’m too long in the tooth to be convinced it would be perfect. The service has been almost unusable on Saturdays for a decade or more.

 

[Horizon22]

No one has said the Covid situation isn’t understandable. It’s just that with this situation having gone on for the best part of a decade on GN, one can’t help be cynical about it.

I’m also sceptical about it being completely the fault of Omicron - I couldn’t even make a local one-stop GN journey a few Saturdays ago (notional 6tph service), and that was well before Omicron, and indeed at a time when Covid infections were comparatively low.

It’s also worth adding that GN/TL has never delivered the original May 18 Saturday timetable, with there never yet having been the full 6tph between Royston and Cambridge, with 1tph being missing - though to be fair this isn’t the end of the world.

It does also seem to be the case that crewing on the GN side is rather inflexible. There remains a hell of a lot of “pass” mileage, especially between Hitchin and Finsbury Park, and the way route and traction knowledge has been heavily broken into silos can’t help with the weekend situation.

I’m quite happy to accept Bald Rick’s assertion that things would have been better were it not for Covid, but I’m too long in the tooth to be convinced it would be perfect. The service has been almost unusable on Saturdays for a decade or more.

I'm not saying it would be perfect by any stretch. Just some seem to thing the railway is somehow exempt from shortages. There are other issues obviously that have combined (a continual reliance on RDW and naturally fewer takers on the last weekend before Xmas and some heritage GTR flexibility issues)

 

[dk1]

Covid appears to causing quite severe absence problems now, Greater Anglia has reduced timetable starting Monday. Several cancelled services today due to lack of crew - very unusual to see this quantity on GA.

Still not an overpowering amount of sickness at GA Monday with still some volunteers to RDW not even used yet. More to do with falling passenger numbers.

 

[skyhigh]

It is likely to be everywhere on a weekend. Every industry has seen higher than average sickness (even for December) this year - indeed it is in the news regarding the NHS and potential cancelled / suspended routine operations and lack of emergency care cover.

In a railway context, staff shortages will equal cancelled trains. There's no getting away from it; its a reaction to Covid rates and isolation. But somehow for some posters this is unacceptable.

There were 23 uncovered jobs tomorrow at my old depot. They've managed to fill almost all the gaps with volunteers but I've never known it that bad.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I have to eat my words somewhat here - despite the usual warnings from GN about cancellations, actually there haven't been *any* cancellations on the Kings Lynn/Ely services so far today - the first time that's happened on a Saturday in months.

(The slower Thameslink trains don't appear to have done quite so well though, and the Hertford loop doesn't look to have had a good day either)

They were doing OK until 3Z01 formed of 700023 decided to misbehave itself as it passed through Platform 0 at Redhill yesterday and stopped the job for about 40mins on the Up Line. Quarries were shut no diversions possible.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

It's just over 11 years since I last travelled on Thameslink, how good to see that nothing has been done to recruit sufficient Drivers to run a service without expecting them to work over or outside their contractual hours, I mean there's just nobody out there wanting to become Drivers, are there?

There not the only operator struggling and to be fair things run pretty well on most days of the year albeit i get this time of the year is pretty important but with amount of people i know getting C19 in this wave is far worse than previous waves so you have to cut them some slack for dealing with the fallout from that as well. Remember all year they've had drivers volunteering for extra shifts all year to cover staff absences and they won't have used up leave.
Be good if all operators were compelled by the Dept of T to be clear where they stand on driver resources to deliver their required service timetables.

 

[choochoochoo]

It's just over 11 years since I last travelled on Thameslink, how good to see that nothing has been done to recruit sufficient Drivers to run a service without expecting them to work over or outside their contractual hours, I mean there's just nobody out there wanting to become Drivers, are there?

They've got loads of trainees in the pipeline, but not enough instructors. Why ? Because the perks of the instructor role aren't attractive enough for the risk it poses to their licence.

Also I'd be surprised if they do much more recruitment with spectre of GBR looming. If anything, I see service reductions, and excess drivers for the jobs that will be available.

 

[Bald Rick]

Be good if all operators were compelled by the Dept of T to be clear where they stand on driver resources to deliver their required service timetables.

They are! In detail.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Also I'd be surprised if they do much more recruitment with spectre of GBR looming. If anything, I see service reductions, and excess drivers for the jobs that will be available.

There certainly is opportunity for tweaking up some service groups especially on MML where there is now significant overcapacity to Bedford. The 9Rs Gatwicks should terminate at Luton would save 3 units.

They are! In detail.

I'll stick in an FOI!!

 

[Bald Rick]

There certainly is opportunity for tweaking up some service groups especially on MML where there is now significant overcapacity to Bedford. The 9Rs Gatwicks should terminate at Luton would save 3 units.

Not now they couldn’t, the Rainhams are in the way.