GWML / Elizabeth line disruption due to OLE down near Paddington

[357]

None of what has been said about the driver has any basis in reality. You should stop spreading unsubstantiated rumours and gossip.

Please let me know what I've said that's not widely available in the media already and I'll remove it.

 

[TurboMan]

Please let me know what I've said that's not widely available in the media already and I'll remove it.

'Widely available in the media' does not mean there is any ounce of truth in what the ASLEF spokesman has told the media. I know the driver of the train involved, he has told me there is no truth in what has been spread maliciously, and is quite upset about it.

Evidence is also coming to light of the same ASLEF spokesman sending abusive messages to another GWR manager last night.

 

[357]

'Widely available in the media' does not mean there is any ounce of truth in what the ASLEF spokesman has told the media. I know the driver of the train involved, he has told me there is no truth in what has been spread maliciously, and is quite upset about it.

Evidence is also coming to light of the same ASLEF spokesman sending abusive messages to another GWR manager last night.

If this is correct, then I can't help but wonder why GWRs press office hasn't released a statement about it. Pretty shoddy way to care about the companies own staff.

 

[Samzino]

Chime Whistle reporting that the driver attempted to switch from rear pan to front pan at 50mph

National Railway Museum confirms that ‘Flying Scotsman’ will remain on main line in 2024. — Railway books and calendars

Great Wester staff tell Chime Whistle Publishing, what they believe caused the 18.30 London Paddington to Cardiff service to become entangled in the overhead wires on Thursday evening.

www.chimewhistle.co.uk

Would confirm what I've heard

 

[Melancholia]

Apologies if an obvious question – to this casual, if somewhat technically minded, observer, why this restriction that coasting is only permissible if using the pantograph on the front 3 vehicles? What's the risk of that's done when the pantograph is raised in the rear?

I presume the LNER 80x mentioned that will often use the rear pantograph in service are doing so in the knowledge they cannot avail themselves of this clause of the rulebook?

It's so if there's obvious damage to overhead line equipment, it's easily visible from the leading cab if it's caused by the pantograph close to the front, as the wires would bounce around unusually, or you'd actually see the damage.

 

[TurboMan]

If this is correct, then I can't help but wonder why GWRs press office hasn't released a statement about it. Pretty shoddy way to care about the companies own staff.

It is entirely correct. I can post the screenshots of the abuse if you like, but it'll destroy Aslef's credibility in the same way that Manuel Cortes' disgusting behaviour destroyed TSSA's credibility. And please don't suggest that GWR don't care about their staff because all those involved in Thursday's dewirement have all been given plenty of support from director downwards.

 

[AdamWW]

How about finding the driver or guard, and either briefing them or agreeing they can get on and walk through to tell people.

If it is that simple then it seems rather disappointing that something like that wasn't done.

 

[Mojo]

They are electrically separated and controlled by MTR Crossrail, though I don't know how the interface with NR works I'm afraid.

Slightly pedantic point but MTR is just a train operating company and don’t control the traction power supply on the Central Operating Section, Rail for London Infrastructure which is part of TfL have their own staff which control the power, signals and other parts of the infrastructure in the same way to how Network Rail would elsewhere.

Maybe tea - without biscuits - and a sideways move?

/lf/ and indeed /if/ it was the driver’s fault, l would be surprised to hear it managed under the disciplinary process unless the driver failed to follow procedures. l’m sure Aslef wouldn’t want this for their members anyway…

 

[Horizon22]

...although it has not been ruled out that the driver was the main culprit. If this turns out to have been the case then I would suggest serious ramifications.

No but neither has it decisively been ruled in. It remains speculation.

 

[Stephen42]

If this is correct, then I can't help but wonder why GWRs press office hasn't released a statement about it. Pretty shoddy way to care about the companies own staff.

A GWR spokesman told the Evening Standard the following on Friday when asked for comment:

On Friday evening as investigations continued GWR said there was "no evidence" any train had caused the wires to come down.

A GWR spokesman said: "We don’t know what has happened yet. However, there is no evidence that any train, let alone a GWR one, caused the wires to come down.

"On the contrary, the damage to and data from the GWR train indicates it was not even the first to come into contact with the fallen wires.
"Even the fact that the wires wrapped around the GWR train (including the front of the train) is an indication the wires were down before the train reached it."

 

[357]

It is entirely correct. I can post the screenshots of the abuse if you like, but it'll destroy Aslef's credibility in the same way that Manuel Cortes' disgusting behaviour destroyed TSSA's credibility. And please don't suggest that GWR don't care about their staff because all those involved in Thursday's dewirement have all been given plenty of support from director downwards.

But they haven't refuted the statements made about one of their drivers.

TfL have been releasing statements saying it was "another operators train" that caused the wires to come down.

 

[TurboMan]

But they haven't refuted the statements made about one of their drivers.

Did you not read the post above yours?

Any comment on the abuse sent to a GWR manager? Abuse that would probably count as malicious communication, and therefore potentially a police matter?

 

[Darandio]

Any comment on the abuse sent to a GWR manager? Abuse that would probably count as malicious communication, and therefore potentially a police matter?

How can they comment on something they haven't seen? You won't post it.

 

[357]

Did you not read the post above yours?

Any comment on the abuse sent to a GWR manager? Abuse that would probably count as malicious communication, and therefore potentially a police matter?

That statement wasn't following the detailed reports of "Driver X did Y and caused the wires to come down".

Why would you expect me to comment on the supposed communication? I've only heard about this from you, and you won't share details. Try getting a comment from GWR if you're so concerned?

 

[TurboMan]

How can they comment on something they haven't seen? You won't post it.

@357 seems quite happy to comment on something about which they have no knowledge other than a speculative press statement from ASLEF who have a vested interest in maligning GWR's attempts to run a service.

 

[The Middle]

In a now deleted tweet in response to a tweet by the TUC Mick Whelan last night additionally implied there was an unauthorised person in the cab

 

[357]

@357 seems quite happy to comment on something about which they have no knowledge other than a speculative press statement from ASLEF who have a vested interest in maligning GWR's attempts to run a service.

What exactly did I comment that has got your back up so much?

That industry chats have been naming and shaming the driver for days, or that I said management normally get off lighter than a driver would?

I can post the screenshots of the abuse if you like

Go on then.

 

[TurboMan]

What exactly did I comment that has got your knickers in such a twist?

That industry chats have been naming and shaming the driver for days, or that I said management normally get off lighter than a driver would?


Go on then.

'Shaming' the driver? How would you feel if the roles were reversed, you had an incident and your TOC released a press statement questioning your professionalism and competence before an investigation had even begun?

 

[Annetts key]

What is your proposal? More manpower for control? More on-call resources? Or are you thinking more along the lines of local management (e.g., station managers or some sort of area operations manager) having decision-making powers?

I don’t have enough information to form a proposal as I’m just an observer. It’s for Network Rail and the TOCs to investigate and look at how things can be improved. Maybe also the ORR. And I also don’t wish to speculate in this topic. But I personally think that the overall performance of the railways during this incident was far below satisfactory.

 

[357]

'Shaming' the driver? How would you feel if the roles were reversed, you had an incident and your TOC released a press statement questioning your professionalism and competence before an investigation had even begun?

What TOC has released a statement questioning a driver's professionalism?

I specifically stated that if the ASLEF allegations aren't true then GWR should put out a statement saying this...

Generally any investigation would have had a good idea of what had happened fairly quickly. Especially in this era of data logging, even if a more thorough investigation will take longer to complete.

 

[GodAtum]

Is anyone here who was not able to travel and what alternative did the TOC provide? I can imagine many people missing important appointments!

 

[TurboMan]

What TOC has released a statement questioning a driver's professionalism?

That's precisely my point. No TOC would do such a thing, and if they did, ASLEF would be livid. And quite rightly so - a 'just culture' where drivers are treated with respect following an incident, regardless of whether human error was involved, is critical to embedding a safety culture.

GWR have released a statement refuting the speculation that the driver was at fault - it's in the quote from the Evening Standard posted earlier in this thread. And, as that statement says, although the investigation is ongoing, there is nothing from the data recovered from the train to suggest that driver error was involved.

As I have said, I know the driver, he is a colleague. You could not hope to meet a nicer person. He has many years' experience as a driver on a wide variety of traction and routes. He decided to take the step up into management because he wanted to make a difference. I know that when he was a driver manager (before he recently took on the investigator role) he always treated the drivers in his team with respect and compassion, supporting them in any way he could.

He is a human being with feelings, and I have no doubt he has been affected by the media coverage of this incident, and the speculation put forward by people who miraculously seem to know exactly what happened despite not being there. There seems to be a concerted effort by some to destroy his reputation, his career, and his livelihood - he has a young family to support.

It's disgusting quite frankly, and those engaging in the attempts to destroy his reputation based on unfounded speculation should be ashamed. It would not be tolerated if he was a driver on the roster, but he seems to be fair game because he has the word 'manager' in his job title.

 

[Cowley]

Right. I think for the time being we need to put a hold on this thread and maybe tidy things up in the morning once everyone’s calmed down. We’ve definitely started to stray into areas that aren’t particularly helpful now.

That’ll do for the time being folks.