GWR Class 230 Information, Movements & Discussion.

[John R]

He quoted the unit at having done 86 miles recently without recharging, which is pretty impressive.

 

[DidcotDickie]

It's made it to Reading TCD, within schedule and without needing a 'top up' at Oxford: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K00487/2024-02-16/detailed

 

[FGW_DID]

Let's hope the charging facility at Reading works, as presumably until 230001 gets there it can't be tested in real life. And if it doesn't work, the unit will be stranded.

I think its a non-fast charging facility at Reading depot (so overnight I guess) and a Fast charge facility at the platform at West Ealing.

No fast charge facility at the TCD. 230001 has just been tucked away in the shed. Hopefully we've got a spare plug socket on an extension lead, its that or a pallet load of AAAs!

 

[TurboMan]

Let's hope the charging facility at Reading works, as presumably until 230001 gets there it can't be tested in real life. And if it doesn't work, the unit will be stranded.

It'll be trickle charged at Reading using the same charging equipment as that used at Long Marston - the chargers made the journey to Reading on board the train.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It'll be trickle charged at Reading using the same charging equipment as that used at Long Marston - the chargers made the journey to Reading on board the train.

Somehow that seems weird and yet entirely appropriate at the same time.

 

[TurboMan]

GWR press release with some facts and figures: https://news.gwr.com/news/great-western-railways-battery-train-sets-new-distance-record

Great Western Railway’s innovative FastCharge battery trial has achieved another significant step – just days after laying claim to a battery train UK distance record without recharging.

The train demonstrated its capability on Wednesday by travelling a UK record of 86 miles (138km) on battery power alone and without recharging.

Today the Class 230 battery train completed a 70-mile move from Long Marston to Reading Train Care Depot – using just 45 per cent of its battery capacity. GWR’s team of specialist engineers on board the train claim it could have travelled more than 120 miles on a single charge.

 

[meld3]

"Today the Class 230 battery train completed a 70-mile move from Long Marston to Reading Train Care Depot – using just 45 per cent of its battery capacity"

45% remaining after 70 miles could be an absolute game-changer for many branch lines. Just need a newer train to get the technology into.

 

[John R]

"Today the Class 230 battery train completed a 70-mile move from Long Marston to Reading Train Care Depot – using just 45 per cent of its battery capacity"

45% remaining after 70 miles could be an absolute game-changer for many branch lines. Just need a newer train to get the technology into.

Worth noting that in the press release GWR cited the Class 777 had done 138km in test, yet Stadler convert this to a conservative 50km to 60km range, and the operator scales this back further to suggesting that a range of around 20km would be utilised. Let’s hope that the GWR range utilisation is a bit more optimistic.

 

[TurboMan]

45% remaining after 70 miles could be an absolute game-changer for many branch lines. Just need a newer train to get the technology into.

Totally agree about it being a game changer, especially as the fast charge equipment is simple and cheap to install.

As for the train, it kind of is new. The bodyshell, bogies and brake gear are original D78 but everything else is new - including the traction equipment, as I doubt it could perform as well as it does without the latest, highly efficient traction kit. That was part of the point of the train, that it was designed to be as low impact as possible, not just in using electricity for traction instead of diesel, but also by reusing the bodyshell & bogies of a life-expired train, with new components as recyclable/reusable as possible when the unit reaches its expiry date.

But all that might be academic as it doesn't necessarily follow that a successful fast-charge trial will result in a fleet of more 230s.

 

[Northerngirl]

I dobut there's much demand for more 230s, but as a proof of concept it seems like great progress, no dobut gwr could fit the system on something like a 158 far easier if they have a few months of experience running these sets

 

[Anonymous10]

"Today the Class 230 battery train completed a 70-mile move from Long Marston to Reading Train Care Depot – using just 45 per cent of its battery capacity"

45% remaining after 70 miles could be an absolute game-changer for many branch lines. Just need a newer train to get the technology into.

Also worth remembering this didn't stop ar many stations which would increase the drain as the train accelerates.

I dobut there's much demand for more 230s, but as a proof of concept it seems like great progress, no dobut gwr could fit the system on something like a 158 far easier if they have a few months of experience running these sets

The 158s also work routes far too long for this kind of technology, some 150s on the other hand?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

no dobut gwr could fit the system on something like a 158 far easier if they have a few months of experience running these sets

Depends how much space the Batteries and equipment takes, would there be enough space under a DMU?
I'd expect them to be an add-on to EMUs rather than DMUs.

Also worth remembering this didn't stop ar many stations which would increase the drain as the train accelerates.

But there is regen braking, which would at least help recover some of the power taken by that (but obviously not all of it, the laws of physics still apply).

 

[Peter Sarf]

I dobut there's much demand for more 230s, but as a proof of concept it seems like great progress, no dobut gwr could fit the system on something like a 158 far easier if they have a few months of experience running these sets

It will most likely be a DMU that uses traction motors not a mechanical/hydraulic gearbox. For that reason I think a D78 to 230 conversion is more likely than a 158 being converted. Other DMUs and, of course, EMUs may be available.

 

[Speed43125]

"Today the Class 230 battery train completed a 70-mile move from Long Marston to Reading Train Care Depot – using just 45 per cent of its battery capacity"

45% remaining after 70 miles could be an absolute game-changer for many branch lines. Just need a newer train to get the technology into.

If it's used 45%, then surely it's 55% remaining after 70 miles. Either way very impressive. Though I wonder if like most car batteries it's preferred to keep the SOC between 10 and 80% in normal use.

 

[fgwrich]

No fast charge facility at the TCD. 230001 has just been tucked away in the shed. Hopefully we've got a spare plug socket on an extension lead, its that or a pallet load of AAAs!

So if I cant find any batteries in any shops across Berkshire tomorrow I know who to blame!

 

[Anonymous10]

So if I cant find any batteries in any shops across Berkshire tomorrow I know who to blame!

Might have better luck buying the uks supply of power tool batteries or maybe leisure batteries

 

[Tony2]

The 158s also work routes far too long for this kind of technology, some 150s on the other hand?

The reasons D78 stock were selected by Vivarail for conversion, were that they were available and the bodies were constructed of aluminium so are still in extremely good condition.

When 230002 was demonstrated at Bo’ness in 2018, the concept was explained to those present in detail, here are some notes I made at the time and posted on another forum:

‘The concept of this project was explained by Vivarail staff including Adrian Shooter who was on the train. This is being pitched as a recycled train, selected because the aluminium bodies are still in extremely good condition. 365s, 465s and 466s also have aluminium bodies so could be reused in a similar fashion. 314s, 507s and 508s have alloy composite bodies and have suffered
badly from corrosion so are not suitable for reuse.

The 230 uses lithium ion batteries in series banks using a balanced charge process. In service it would be planned that a green supply rather than a generator would be used to recharge the unit, which has a range of approx 40 miles, charges take approx 10 mins. Regenerative braking allows the power cells to be topped up so batteries are never fitted with a full charge or there would be nowhere for the additional charge to go’.

150s I believe are alloy composites so not suitable and 158s are still widely used.

Also as mentioned in post 283 above, the concept is based on recycling stock having electric traction motors rather than a mechanical transmission.

 

[RPI]

The reasons D78 stock were selected by Vivarail for conversion, were that they were available and the bodies were constructed of aluminium so are still in extremely good condition.

When 230002 was demonstrated at Bo’ness in 2018, the concept was explained to those present in detail, here are some notes I made at the time and posted on another forum:

‘The concept of this project was explained by Vivarail staff including Adrian Shooter who was on the train. This is being pitched as a recycled train, selected because the aluminium bodies are still in extremely good condition. 365s, 465s and 466s also have aluminium bodies so could be reused in a similar fashion. 314s, 507s and 508s have alloy composite bodies and have suffered
badly from corrosion so are not suitable for reuse.

The 230 uses lithium ion batteries in series banks using a balanced charge process. In service it would be planned that a green supply rather than a generator would be used to recharge the unit, which has a range of approx 40 miles, charges take approx 10 mins. Regenerative braking allows the power cells to be topped up so batteries are never fitted with a full charge or there would be nowhere for the additional charge to go’.

150s I believe are alloy composites so not suitable and 158s are still widely used.

Also as mentioned in post 283 above, the concept is based on recycling stock having electric traction motors rather than a mechanical transmission.

I seem to remember @Clarence Yard mentioning a while back that there were plans, whether that's as plans on the back of a fag packet or more detailed, to convert 465 driving vehicles to battery for the Cornish branches before COVID, or did I imagine that?

 

[D365]

Though I wonder if like most car batteries it's preferred to keep the SOC between 10 and 80% in normal use.

Yes, a similar Depth of Discharge (or possibly even 30-80%) will also be applicable to railway vehicles in order to maximise lifecycles.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

I seem to remember @Clarence Yard mentioning a while back that there were plans, whether that's as plans on the back of a fag packet or more detailed, to convert 465 driving vehicles to battery for the Cornish branches before COVID, or did I imagine that?

I would've thought they'd use the spare D-Stock shells first.

 

[Zontar]

Has TFW had any collaboration with this venture?

 

[anthony263]

I seem to remember @Clarence Yard mentioning a while back that there were plans, whether that's as plans on the back of a fag packet or more detailed, to convert 465 driving vehicles to battery for the Cornish branches before COVID, or did I imagine that?

I'm sure I've seen that brought up before the class 466 units

 

[Bob Price]

Has TFW had any collaboration with this venture?

Don't believe so. However if this works, converting the Borderlands line units to batteries and fast charge at Wrexham would be feasible. However back to topic.

 

[Benjwri]

I seem to remember @Clarence Yard mentioning a while back that there were plans, whether that's as plans on the back of a fag packet or more detailed, to convert 465 driving vehicles to battery for the Cornish branches before COVID, or did I imagine that?

I think they said somewhere else those plans are sadly long dead

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think they said somewhere else those plans are sadly long dead

You may say sadly, but it would have come at the expense of brand new trains ordered with Churchward. Everywhere else would have got shiny new modern stock, and those branches would have been stuck for decades with 70s tube stock conversions. Now, these lines can be included in the Churchward order.

 

[Benjwri]

Have GWR backstepped on the public trial? I guess it was never specifically stated it would be, but this press release says:

Charging rails and lineside battery banks have been installed at West Ealing in preparation for the start of the trial on the Greenford branch line.

Once the trial commences it will run in non-passenger service alongside scheduled passenger services.

Very clearly stating it isn't going to be carrying passengers, and making to commitment no to any possible future passenger service.

 

[TurboMan]

Have GWR backstepped on the public trial? I guess it was never specifically stated it would be, but this press release says:

Very clearly stating it isn't going to be carrying passengers, and making to commitment no to any possible future passenger service.

The initial testing will be ECS (which is what I think the wording of the press release is getting at), but it is still planned to run it in passenger service. It has to be a 'real world' trial and that includes having people on board.

You may say sadly, but it would have come at the expense of brand new trains ordered with Churchward. Everywhere else would have got shiny new modern stock, and those branches would have been stuck for decades with 70s tube stock conversions. Now, these lines can be included in the Churchward order.

What's the difference from the passenger point of view between a train with a brand new bodyshell and brand new interior, and one with a reused bodyshell and a brand new interior?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The initial testing will be ECS (which is what I think the wording of the press release is getting at), but it is still planned to run it in passenger service. It has to be a 'real world' trial and that includes having people on board.


What's the difference from the passenger point of view between a train with a brand new bodyshell and brand new interior, and one with a reused bodyshell and a brand new interior?

But from travelling on both 230s and 484s plenty of times, they don’t feel like they have a brand new interior A refurbished one perhaps, but you can tell it’s not brand new if you’ve got any sense. Especially not with the flickery TrainFX PIS, desperately slow doors, and don’t even get me started on the ridiculous temporary-looking gangways on the LNR and SWR examples

 

[Dan G]

I dobut there's much demand for more 230s, but as a proof of concept it seems like great progress, no dobut gwr could fit the system on something like a 158 far easier if they have a few months of experience running these sets

GWR has the ambition of using 230s for branch line work in the Thames Valley and Cornwall. With the level of performance being demonstrated use on Okehampton, Barnstaple, and Exmouth-Paignton seems possible

 

[John R]

But from travelling on both 230s and 484s plenty of times, they don’t feel like they have a brand new interior A refurbished one perhaps, but you can tell it’s not brand new if you’ve got any sense. Especially not with the flickery TrainFX PIS, desperately slow doors, and don’t even get me started on the ridiculous temporary-looking gangways on the LNR and SWR examples

I guess what’s important to a discerning enthusiast may be different to Joe Public. I suspect for the latter the main perception is based on how clean and new the interior looks in general. And ultimately, that’s the perception that counts.

GWR has the ambition of using 230s for branch line work in the Thames Valley and Cornwall. With the level of performance being demonstrated use on Okehampton, Barnstaple, and Exmouth-Paignton seems possible

Or even Newquay to Falmouth, assuming the 60mph limit isn’t a constraint on the main line, once that service is introduced in 2026.