GWR Class 230 Information, Movements & Discussion.

[D365]

Good to know, I was worried if it needs 2 then scrapping the remaining ones would be very foolish

Was it not discussed upthread that talk of scrapping the ex-LNWR vehicles was entirely speculative?

 

[John R]

Was it not discussed upthread that talk of scrapping the ex-LNWR vehicles was entirely speculative?

More than speculative, but downright incorrect based on responses by those who know.

 

[John R]

Tests / Trials are ongoing. Whilst the unit has been quite happy trundling up and down the Greenford branch, it’s always been quite lightly loaded i.e just had test kit and techs aboard. The next test will be to simulate a fully loaded train of passengers, which is imminent in the next couple of days with a trainload of volunteer staff.

Do you (or the also ever helpful @Woods) know how that trial went, and simply out of curiosity, how much difference the loading makes to the range?

And is there any other update as to the progress of testing and steps (engineering or otherwise) required before the unit can enter public service.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Tests / Trials are ongoing. Whilst the unit has been quite happy trundling up and down the Greenford branch, its always been quite lightly loaded i.e just had test kit and techs aboard. The next test will be to simulate a fully loaded train of passengers, which is imminent in the next couple of days with a trainload of volunteer staff.

No train however extensively tested ever survives first contact with real passengers thats when you find out whether it really works as designed

 

[Benjwri]

No train however extensively tested ever survives first contact with real passengers thats when you find out whether it really works as designed

Is a major point of the loaded testing not to find out how the battery performs with a heavier loading though?

 

[John R]

Is a major point of the loaded testing not to find out how the battery performs with a heavier loading though?

Yes, that’s exactly what I understood the point to be, not a wider test of passenger use.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes, that’s exactly what I understood the point to be, not a wider test of passenger use.

I guess there are lots of sandbags (or suchlike weights) on the 230 - that is what is usually done when testing out new designs.

 

[Horizon22]

Not that the Greenford branch ever seems to have more than about 20 people on it!

Of course it’s useful but they’ll need to get some volunteers (or a weighted equivalent) if they want a proper test!

The public service on that branch of one diesel train starts the day at Paddington. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...24-08-05/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt

The test service of one 230 started today at West Ealing sidings, a location photographed earlier in this thread. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U20618/2024-08-04/detailed Other days it comes from Reading depot.

Actually it tends to start from Reading:

Realtime Trains | 2P07 0354 Reading to London Paddington | 09/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 2P07 0354 departure from Reading to London Paddington on 09/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[NickBucks]

Sims haven't, the storage compound is owned by a different company (IMR) - see post #494

N

 

[Mollman]

Not that the Greenford branch ever seems to have more than about 20 people on it!

Of course it’s useful but they’ll need to get some volunteers (or a weighted equivalent) if they want a proper test!

I am sure all the Rail / Travel logging YouTubers will be happy to do it.

 

[The exile]

What’s the current situation? Note there’s been nothing on here for several weeks and hope that “no news is generally good news”.

 

[FGW_DID]

What’s the current situation? Note there’s been nothing on here for several weeks and hope that “no news is generally good news”.

Merrily trundling its way between Greenford & West Ealing most days. Its out all this week, out next week - returning to Reading TCD towards the end of the week (Thursday?)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

IMeche update on the Greenford trials

Reasonable amount of technical detail on the train and the fast charging system

 

[TurboMan]

It's taken a while to get to this point, but training of GWR drivers on class 230 begins on Monday.

 

[anthony263]

It's taken a while to get to this point, but training of GWR drivers on class 230 begins on Monday.

Good be Interesting to see how it performs in actual public

 

[JamesT]

The report on these trains in this lunchtime's South Today mentioned 'Spring' as a potential date for introduction into passenger service.

 

[Meerkat]

The report on these trains in this lunchtime's South Today mentioned 'Spring' as a potential date for introduction into passenger service.

I know nothing is as simple as it seems but why is it taking so long - why not just get the passengers on and find problems now?

 

[43096]

The report on these trains in this lunchtime's South Today mentioned 'Spring' as a potential date for introduction into passenger service.

Informed Sources’ Third Law applies: “Always mistrust schedules based on the seasons”

 

[800301]

I know nothing is as simple as it seems but why is it taking so long - why not just get the passengers on and find problems now?

Because the drivers and instructors still need training on them, it’s not as simple as just get in it and go

 

[Carlisle]

I know nothing is as simple as it seems but why is it taking so long - why not just get the passengers on and find problems now?

I presume the companies involved are paid & contracted to an essentially pre determined time period of testing & commissioning therefore there’s little if any incentive to get them into service quicker .

 

[The exile]

I presume the companies involved are paid & contracted to an essentially pre agreed time period of testing therefore there’s little if any incentive to get them into service quicker .

Just imagine the furore if £xyz had been spent training GWR drivers and train crew only to discover that it didn’t work….
After all, the complaints regarding the other 230 operations (and 769s) is that they shouldn’t have been rushed into service so quickly!

 

[TurboMan]

I presume the companies involved are paid & contracted to an essentially pre determined time period of testing & commissioning therefore there’s little if any incentive to get them into service quicker .

There are no companies involved other than GWR, and GWR want to get the unit into passenger service asap.

 

[anthony263]

There are no companies involved other than GWR, and GWR want to get the unit into passenger service asap.

Plus from what I've been told myself it's performance s much better than was originally said it would I can see GWR wanting a few more of them for the other branches

 

[TurboMan]

Plus from what I've been told myself it's performance s much better than was originally said it would I can see GWR wanting a few more of them for the other branches

That's one possible option, but bear in mind this is a trial of the fast-charge technology with 230001 being used as a test bed, so it doesn't necessarily follow that more battery 230s will be produced.

 

[The exile]

That's one possible option, but bear in mind this is a trial of the fast-charge technology with 230001 being used as a test bed, so it doesn't necessarily follow that more battery 230s will be produced.

If it works and is economically viable, given the fact that there are three other local branches pretty well suited, it would seem daft not to.

 

[John R]

If it works and is economically viable, given the fact that there are three other local branches pretty well suited, it would seem daft not to.

I think what we have to remember is that the Class 230 is essentially the shell used for a trial of the battery technology. If it is proven to be successful then the next step will be to determine how it is deployed. That might be using other Class 230s, if the business case stacks up, or it could be as part of the Project Churchward development to replace some of GWR's oldest rolling stock in the next few years.

The only benefit I can see in incurring the costs involved in converting the other Class 230s together with installing the charging facilities somewhere on the other TV branches is that it provides slight relief on the pressure on rolling stock until Churchward comes along. Given though that the Class 175 provides some considerable relief in that regard, I would have thought it would be a very marginal case given the pressure on spending that the DfT and the rail industry are under.

 

[Woods]

To give a little insight into why it's taking so long to get it into passenger service; a lot of it's to do with the OTCM (On Train Camera Monitor) system fitted. It wasn't really fit for purpose. So sorting that out has taken a long time, with a manufacturer who wasn't terribly interested in helping because to them it was an obsolete system, it's a one-off, and Vivarail had paid them for it years ago without actually checking that a) it worked, b) it met the spec given to them, c) it was compliant to standards. Driver training couldn't start until the OTCM system was fit for purpose, but now it is, and driver training started on 4th November. To all intents and purposes the charging system is working well (a few little niggles here and there, but that is to be expected) but as I say, the main problem has been nothing to do with the charging system really. Of course, the engineers are grateful for a longer testing period, rather than the unholy rush to introduce 230s into passenger service as afflicted the WMT, TfW and SWR variants.

 

[D365]

Driver training couldn't start until the OTCM system was fit for purpose, but now it is, and driver training started on 4th November.

I’m not quite sure what you mean. Is the OTCM specifically a cab CCTV system, with human factors implications? Or is is this a wider CCTV system beyond just the cab environment?

 

[The exile]

The only benefit I can see in incurring the costs involved in converting the other Class 230s together with installing the charging facilities somewhere on the other TV branches is that it provides slight relief on the pressure on rolling stock until Churchward comes along. Given though that the Class 175 provides some considerable relief in that regard, I would have thought it would be a very marginal case given the pressure on spending that the DfT and the rail industry are under.

As has been noted before, there’s plenty of life left in the D stock. GWR own loads and the stock requirements of the Thames Valley branches (excluding Basingstoke) diverge from what is required elsewhere from Project Churchward. The same might be said of the Cornish branches- though probably less so given the fact that there is also a big demand for non-electric stock on the main line as well there.

 

[John R]

GWR own loads

3 of which are relatively ready to run once converted to battery only operation. And the others of which have not been used for 8 years, have stood in a field somewhere, and would need very extensive work to bring them up to a standard by which they could be put back into use.

I do agree that the Cornish branches would be a very good place for them to be put to use, particularly given the lack of any overhead electrification nearby. I'm just not convinced of the appetite of the DfT to agree the conversion costs for any more than the 3 that have already seen service.