GWR Class 800

[Skimble19]

BBC News posted various pictures on their site earlier on the "Live" bit, including the end of one coach that appeared to be dark blue - any idea what that's about? Can't be the Hull units as it's far too early for them isn't it?

Edit: managed to get a link although not sure how long it will be active for: http://bbc.in/2gj9q5N

 

[43096]

I know Wikipedia isn't a primary source, but it lists the axel load as 15t per axel - which makes them RA3 which is reasonably light, actually.

Which equates to 60t for the vehicle. That is not light for an MU vehicle - in fact it's positively lardy!

 

[Domh245]

BBC News posted various pictures on their site earlier on the "Live" bit, including the end of one coach that appeared to be dark blue - any idea what that's about? Can't be the Hull units as it's far too early for them isn't it?

Edit: managed to get a link although not sure how long it will be active for: http://bbc.in/2gj9q5N

I suspect that its a 385 for Scotrail.

 

[najaB]

Which equates to 60t for the vehicle. That is not light for an MU vehicle - in fact it's positively lardy!

Don't forget though, each vehicle is quite a bit longer than with most other units.

 

[fgwrich]

Here is the picture mentioned and I'd definitely agree, it looks very grey and dull in there!

Source

I'm sure when the sets are delivered the TOCs will put their own seat covers on them and potentially change the seating layout.

Maybe so, but it will be a little bit more difficult to brighten that interior up due to the seat frames and backs being a darker colour. The moqutte may be changeable, but I doubt the seats will be.

Wouldn't surprise me if that ends up as the GWR interiors though.

 

[Dave1987]

Don't forget though, each vehicle is quite a bit longer than with most other units.

They are around 6 meters longer than a light weight EMU with 20 metre carriages, which is about 30%. But they are 100% heavier per carriage. They are very very lardy.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I'm pretty sure non ATP maximum is 100mph.

Are you saying Voyagers are limited too 100mph Reading-Didcot?

 

[jimm]

Maybe so, but it will be a little bit more difficult to brighten that interior up due to the seat frames and backs being a darker colour. The moqutte may be changeable, but I doubt the seats will be.

Wouldn't surprise me if that ends up as the GWR interiors though.

Well it would surprise me.

In the case of the GWR-allocated 800s, it seems that the DfT has dug its heels in and insisted that the interiors it chose for what it clearly regards as its pet trains must be left untouched - at least until the GW area comes out of operation under a direct award franchise.

Do you really think GWR would have gone to all the time and trouble of creating the current look for first class in the HSTs if it was then going to opt for the kind of feel the DfT has favoured on the 800s?

Seat frames and backs can be spray-painted.

However, the 802s are free of DfT diktat, so I would be amazed if GWR did not go down similar lines to the first green HST - though hopefully with better material on the seats in standard.

But because Stagecoach (with a Virgin sticker on the top) are flying the flag for dynamic thrusting private enterprise after winning a franchise contest, they are being allowed to choose the interior look on the ECML 800s and 801s - as they announced in March.

https://www.virgintrainseastcoast.com/news/new-announcement/
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are you saying Voyagers are limited too 100mph Reading-Didcot?

That's all the timings require - lots of the XC services run on the relief lines anyway.

 

[najaB]

They are around 6 meters longer than a light weight EMU with 20 metre carriages, which is about 30%. But they are 100% heavier per carriage. They are very very lardy.

A lightweight EMU that is designed for 140mph operation?

 

[43096]

They are around 6 meters longer than a light weight EMU with 20 metre carriages, which is about 30%. But they are 100% heavier per carriage. They are very very lardy.

Ta. They're comparable with a Class 185, which are the very definition of lardy!

The interior looks horrific, too - but we knew that already.

 

[krus_aragon]

Electronic circuits aren't bulky.

It sure can be, especially for new technology:

That's an ERTMS balise transmission module and on-train computer system, as seen here. Based on the DB-9 ports (black rectangles) I'd estimate the former occupies roughly one cubic foot of space, whereas the latter is similar to a very large suitcase.

 

[asylumxl]

It sure can be, especially for new technology:

That's an ERTMS balise transmission module and on-train computer system, as seen here. Based on the DB-9 ports (black rectangles) I'd estimate the former occupies roughly one cubic foot of space, whereas the latter is similar to a very large suitcase.

New technology? I see RS232 connectors and what appear to be coaxial connectors. The side of one appears to be a large heat sink.

I appreciate embedded systems need to be reliable - hence the use of older, more stable software. Still...

 

[AnonymousUser1]

New technology? I see RS232 connectors and what appear to be coaxial connectors. The side of one appears to be a large heat sink.

I appreciate embedded systems need to be reliable - hence the use of older, more stable software. Still...

coaxial connections on a radio transmitter ... even if it's entirely a 'software radio' - what comes out of that coaxial socket is RF ...

 

[Domh245]

New technology? I see RS232 connectors and what appear to be coaxial connectors. The side of one appears to be a large heat sink.

I appreciate embedded systems need to be reliable - hence the use of older, more stable software. Still...

Admittedly, I'm not au fait with electronics, but if something is always on or at the very least on for extended periods of time, as you'd expect an ERTMS module to be, and you need reliable performance, you would end up with a massive heatsink or otherwise ample provision for cooling?

 

[asylumxl]

coaxial connections on a radio transmitter ... even if it's entirely a 'software radio' - what comes out of that coaxial socket is RF ...

But it's not new technology is it? The RF connector is positively prehistoric. As for the RS232 DB25 connector, it's seriously outdated.

 

[TheKnightWho]

Ow come off it, they are going to be used in diesel mode far far more than they were originally. Journey times will be no shorter. And they are very very heavy trains as well.

Sorry I'm committing a cardinal sin of this forum in not praising the wonderful thing that is the Hitachi bi-modes.

But their acceleration is far greater than that of an HST on diesel or electric...

 

[asylumxl]

Admittedly, I'm not au fait with electronics, but if something is always on or at the very least on for extended periods of time, as you'd expect an ERTMS module to be, and you need reliable performance, you would end up with a massive heatsink or otherwise ample provision for cooling?

I'd say it's overkill. I'm doubtful it'll be under as much load as say a server in a data centre, which require a much higher availability.

I couldn't find any specs for the system in question, the Mermec European Vital Computer.

 

[DaleCooper]

But it's not new technology is it? The RF connector is positively prehistoric. As for the RS232 DB25 connector, it's seriously outdated.

What connectors would you suggest?

 

[najaB]

As for the RS232 DB25 connector, it's seriously outdated.

How, exactly, is a connector 'outdated'?

 

[DaleCooper]

How, exactly, is a connector 'outdated'?

Perhaps he means "proven and reliable".

 

[TheKnightWho]

How, exactly, is a connector 'outdated'?

In the same way anything can be. Otherwise we'd all still be using SCART for everything with a screen.

 

[superkev]

Don't forget though, each vehicle is quite a bit longer than with most other units.

Wikipedia quotes 60t a car 15t per axle for the diesel fitted and 13t for the emu.
How much is a mk3 coach?
K

 

[asylumxl]

How, exactly, is a connector 'outdated'?

Well assuming it's being used for an actual serial connection, the baud rate is low and, while the large voltage sweep allows for more resistance to interference, it uses a lot more power than other standards.

The standard was defined in 1969. My point was it's not new technology, which I feel is an entirely valid point.

 

[DaleCooper]

In the same way anything can be. Otherwise we'd all still be using SCART for everything with a screen.

SCART isn't outdated as a connector it's just that it's for analogue signals rather than digital. A SCART connector would still be appropriate when used as intended.

 

[najaB]

In the same way anything can be. Otherwise we'd all still be using SCART for everything with a screen.

That's a false comparison - SCART carries analog signals, HDMI carries digital. HDTV needs more bandwidth than is available in a SCART lead. That's a completely different scenario altogether.

 

[DaleCooper]

Well assuming it's being used for an actual serial connection, the baud rate is low and, while the large voltage sweep allows for more resistance to interference, it uses a lot more power than other standards.

The standard was defined in 1969. My point was it's not new technology, which I feel is an entirely valid point.

Perhaps the designer considered resistance to interference more important than baud rate.

 

[asylumxl]

Perhaps the designer considered resistance to interference more important than baud rate.

The trade off for resistance to interference is power consumption, not baud rate. It's also nothing a little extra shielding could not remedy.

Are you going to argue black is white and claim it's new technology then?

 

[najaB]

Are you going to argue black is white and claim it's new technology then?

What's in the box is new, the connectors aren't. Can't we all just get along?

 

[asylumxl]

What's in the box is new, the connectors aren't. Can't we all just get along?

And what's in the box then? Please enlighten me. If I were a betting man I'd be willing to bet it's going to be in line with most other embedded systems, and given that most embedded systems favour stability, most hardware and software will be older and more mature so to speak.

 

[DaleCooper]

The trade off for resistance to interference is power consumption, not baud rate. It's also nothing a little extra shielding could not remedy.

Are you going to argue black is white and claim it's new technology then?

Not a trade off but a feature of the connector as you said and I'm not claiming it's new technology but maybe in this application it's appropriate technology; furthermore to compensate for reduced noise immunity with extra shielding is poor design.

What connectors do you think should be used?