GWR franchise extension: what would you like to see?

[Doctor Fegg]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-franchise-extension-what-would-you-like-to-see.205090/

I’ve just read a few bits of change going forward. Gloucester - Bristol going half hourly. Three day season ticket trials between Banbury, Oxford and Didcot. Additional capacity on the sleeper. New smart ticket system for Cornwall and Plymouth.

I'm hoping that's half the story.

We strongly need (and have been lobbying for) three-day seasons on the Oxford-commute part of the Cotswold Line, too. And Worcester-Gloucester needs a more frequent service, too (although Worcestershire Parkway alleviates that to some degree).

Looking forward to the announcement.

 

[popeter45]

i think extending Cheltenham services to Birmingham New Street could work well

 

[Clarence Yard]

Extending GWR's operating area is not part of the direct award. Direct awards are about delivering DfT specified service improvements.

 

[Nick Ashwell]

i think extending Cheltenham services to Birmingham New Street could work well

Adding terminators at New Street is a no no

 

[Energy]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/gwr-franchise-extension-what-would-you-like-to-see.205090/

FYI, this link links back to this thread so it currently states that this thread was made by splitting of itself

 

[py_megapixel]

i think extending Cheltenham services to Birmingham New Street could work well

Very convenient for a people living between Gloucester and Swindon, who currently can't reach anywhere to the north without a wait at Cheltenham. But I don't think New Street has the capacity for any more terminating services.

 

[py_megapixel]

[...] Worcester-Gloucester needs a more frequent service, too [...]

A half-hourly service through Stonehouse, Stroud and Kemble (2tph Cheltenham to Swindon with 1tph continuing to Paddington IIRC) was proposed at some point and people liked the idea, but never came to fruition. I would propose that an hourly Swindon to Worcester service would kill two birds with one stone, improving the service for both lines without requiring turnarounds at Gloucester or Cheltenham.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Gloucester to Bristol half-hourly would be most acceptable. MetroWest would be the best thing for it all.

Not sure how you'd improve Swindon connectivity as an hourly London - Cheltenham would be best; but decent connections onto the Worcester local services and the Birmingham service (not difficult at 3tph) would do the trick.

Are we to assume that use of Turbo services would permit a half-hourly standardised path from Gloucester to Weston Super Mare? The Worcester starter finishing there, the Gloucester starter going to Exeter and therefore effectively bringing Gloucester closer to the South West.

Not sure what you'd do with the Cardiff. You could either interwork it with the Cardiff - Portsmouth and therefore have half-hourly Cardiff - Bristol - Bath - Westbury so it would be Cardiff - Westbury / Weymouth / Yeovil / Frome / Warminster?

 

[py_megapixel]

Not sure how you'd improve Swindon connectivity as an hourly London - Cheltenham would be best

There already is an hourly CNM-PAD as of December 2019.

I disagree that adding another London connection would be the best; it's more difficult and takes longer to change at Gloucester or Cheltenham for connections towards Bristol or Worcester than to change at Swindon for London. If I was adding an additional service on that line it would be either Swindon to Bristol or Swindon to Worcester reversing at Gloucester.

 

[TheWalrus]

Ideally I’d like to terminate the Paddington-Bedwyns at Newbury with 387s and call the semi-fast Exeters at Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn, increasing to hourly, although may be pathing issues. If not just call at Bedwyn and or Hungerford and keep the Bedwyns. Or if possible extend the Bedwyns to Pewsey and turn round at Woodborough? Not sure if there would be enough time to do this though.

 

[PTR 444]

I'm surprised that Worcester only has 1tp2h to Gloucester and Bristol, considering this is a sizeable population corridor. I would extend the Weymouth - Gloucester service to Worcester Foregate Street so that there is 1tph between Bristol and Worcester. This would also give Ashchurch for Tewkesbury an hourly service throughout the day.

 

[JonathanH]

Ideally I’d like to terminate the Paddington-Bedwyns at Newbury with 387s and call the semi-fast Exeters at Kintbury, Hungerford and Bedwyn, increasing to hourly, although may be pathing issues. If not just call at Bedwyn and or Hungerford and keep the Bedwyns. Or if possible extend the Bedwyns to Pewsey and turn round at Woodborough? Not sure if there would be enough time to do this though.

Why not just put the Theale and Thatcham stops in the semi-fast Exeter and don't bother with the 387s?

 

[TheWalrus]

Why not just put the Theale and Thatcham stops in the semi-fast Exeter and don't bother with the 387s?

It would be difficult enough with 3 extra stops and not getting caught up by the fast at Exeter. Also it would slow it down a lot making it less attractive. I don’t really want to add 2 or 3 extra stops but I feel it is, on balance, the best option.

 

[TheWalrus]

I'm surprised that Worcester only has 1tp2h to Gloucester and Bristol, considering this is a sizeable population corridor. I would extend the Weymouth - Gloucester service to Worcester Foregate Street so that there is 1tph between Bristol and Worcester. This would also give Ashchurch for Tewkesbury an hourly service throughout the day.

The two hourly GW service used to be filled by a LM service Gloucester-Worcester, making it hourly, but this was withdrawn, I believe they said due to low usage.

 

[stuu]

Why not just put the Theale and Thatcham stops in the semi-fast Exeter and don't bother with the 387s?

What about the other 4 stations? There is a need for a stopping service as well as the semi fast and the fast. There's plenty of capacity for trains along there

 

[Romsey]

Internal refurbishment of 165/166 units used on long distance services. 3+2 seating is really not comfortable for longer journeys; - Gatwick - Reading, Portsmouth - Cardiff? Well it's a nice thought for when wecan travel for leisure again.
( As an aside has anyone travelled the whole way from Brighton to Great Malvern in one go on a through service?)

 

[py_megapixel]

Internal refurbishment of 165/166 units used on long distance services. 3+2 seating is really not comfortable for longer journeys; - Gatwick - Reading, Portsmouth - Cardiff? Well it's a nice thought for when wecan travel for leisure again.
( As an aside has anyone travelled the whole way from Brighton to Great Malvern in one go on a through service?)

16x refurbishment is already in progress though I IRC the 3+2 seating is retained

 

[JamesRowden]

It would be difficult enough with 3 extra stops and not getting caught up by the fast at Exeter. Also it would slow it down a lot making it less attractive. I don’t really want to add 2 or 3 extra stops but I feel it is, on balance, the best option.

My idea:

• Remove the Bedwyn to Paddington service
• Run the Exeter semi-fast every hour
• Run the Newbury to Paddington service every hour
• Run an hourly service between Bristol and Reading via Westbury to serve the stations between Westbury and Newbury

 

[Bletchleyite]

A dedicated subfleet of 9-car units for Westcountry services with new seats and more tables for increased comfort and a DB-style walk-up sit-in restaurant service to both classes.

No chance, though.

 

[Energy]

16x refurbishment is already in progress though I IRC the 3+2 seating is retained

They got refurbed in 2010 under FGW then one of the 166s (166205 I believe) got a refresh for the GWR launch. The DA has meant that they are now meant to be getting refurbed but it hasn't started yet to my knowledge.

 

[py_megapixel]

They got refurbed in 2010 under FGW then one of the 166s (166205 I believe) got a refresh for the GWR launch. The DA has meant that they are now meant to be getting refurbed but it hasn't started yet to my knowledge.

I see, there is a photo somewhere of a refurb interior so I assumed that the project had started properly.
I hope they repainted the purple-blue walls; they make the interiors feel incredibily dreary. The seats themselves aren't too bad IMO but are in need of a deep clean and probably new covers.

 

[FQTV]

A dedicated subfleet of 9-car units for Westcountry services with new seats and more tables for increased comfort and a DB-style walk-up sit-in restaurant service to both classes.

No chance, though.

Nice to dream, though.

 

[Energy]

I see, there is a photo somewhere of a refurb interior so I assumed that the project had started properly.
I hope they repainted the purple-blue walls; they make the interiors feel incredibily dreary. The seats themselves aren't too bad IMO but are in need of a deep clean and probably new covers.

What was this photo? If it is like the one bellow it is 166205 which had a refresh for the GWR launch, no other units got the refresh.

 

[py_megapixel]

What was this photo? If it is like the one bellow it is 166205 which had a refresh for the GWR launch, no other units got the refresh.
View attachment 79042

Yes, that's the one

 

[Energy]

Yes, that's the one

Yeah, it's the only one and from a few years ago. I haven't been on it but apparently it hasn't aged too well.

 

[TheWalrus]

What about the other 4 stations? There is a need for a stopping service as well as the semi fast and the fast. There's plenty of capacity for trains along there

Are you suggesting all-stations Reading-Exeter? It would certainly be caught up before Exeter by the fast. However I’m not sure what you are proposing?

 

[TheWalrus]

My idea:

• Remove the Bedwyn to Paddington service
• Run the Exeter semi-fast every hour
• Run the Newbury to Paddington service every hour
• Run an hourly service between Bristol and Reading via Westbury to serve the stations between Westbury and Newbury

That would be nice calling at Trowbridge and Bradford. Sure people on the B&H would appreciate direct trains to Bath and Bristol too. Could be a winner.

 

[stuu]

Are you suggesting all-stations Reading-Exeter? It would certainly be caught up before Exeter by the fast. However I’m not sure what you are proposing?

No, I was responding to the person who suggested Theale and Thatcham be served by the semi fast and the 387 service removed. Which is a silly idea. Ideally the 387s would run all stations to Hungerford and then Bedwyn could get a more sensible level of service for the number of passengers

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I would like to see a plan to replace Sprinters

I would also like to see Cardiff - Taunton, Plymouth - Penzance and the limited Cardiff/Bristol - Plymouth services given to a solid hourly Cardiff - Plymouth service formed of Castles or 802s.

An order at some point for 15-20x 802s to replace Castles and displace more 158s to the branches. These could be five car to replace Castles like for like, or nine car to perhaps swap out of some of the five cars on London services.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

A dedicated subfleet of 9-car units for Westcountry services with new seats and more tables for increased comfort and a DB-style walk-up sit-in restaurant service to both classes.

No chance, though.

One can but dream