GwR HSTs to be stood down

[Clarence Yard]

Long Rock hasn’t got the facilities. The remaining HST sets will remain LA units - it also helps with justifying the staff numbers there.

 

[irish_rail]

Long Rock hasn’t got the facilities. The remaining HST sets will remain LA units - it also helps with justifying the staff numbers there.

Common sense prevails then, good for the lads working there.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Will the remaining sets be 2+4, 2+5 or a mixture?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Will the remaining sets be 2+4, 2+5 or a mixture?

GWR only run 2+4 HSTs.

 

[Snow1964]

Long Rock hasn’t got the facilities. The remaining HST sets will remain LA units - it also helps with justifying the staff numbers there.

Not sure how many staff Liara has, but Hitachi says its new contract will support over 500 jobs at West Country depots, and specifically mentions LA . So presumably any HST work is a bonus

The partnership will help maintain over 500 highly skilled jobs at West of England depots, with the majority of Class 802 maintenance taking place at Laira depot in Plymouth

Great Western Railway extends Hitachi Rail’s maintenance contract to secure hundreds of jobs and support UK supply chain

Great Western Railway (GWR), Eversholt Rail, and Hitachi Rail have announced an extension of their maintenance partnership, which will bring millions of...

www.mynewsdesk.com

 

[Meerkat]

Are the Laira and Long Rock staff Hitachi employees then? I had got the impression they were GWR folk.

 

[fgwrich]

Are the Laira and Long Rock staff Hitachi employees then? I had got the impression they were GWR folk.

GWR - none as far as I’m aware of the GWR depots passed over to Hitachi upon the arrival of the IEP / IETs, unlike the East Coast where Craigentinny and Bounds Green transferred over.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

This is so disappointing. Promised a standardised service on Cardiff - Taunton/Penzance with modern, more open plan trains with more tables and wider legroom, electronic reservations, plug sockets that actually fit big plugs, a functioning PIS that isn’t always broken, what do we get instead? The news that yet more of the clapped out 70s trains will continue to run for another year, no doubt wedged with hardcore HST enthusiasts who selfishly delight in this news. How disappointing that Hitachi has allowed IET availability to sink so low.

 

[XCTurbostar]

This is so disappointing. Promised a standardised service on Cardiff - Taunton/Penzance with modern, more open plan trains with more tables and wider legroom, electronic reservations, plug sockets that actually fit big plugs, a functioning PIS that isn’t always broken, what do we get instead? The news that yet more of the clapped out 70s trains will continue to run for another year, no doubt wedged with hardcore HST enthusiasts who selfishly delight in this news. How disappointing that Hitachi has allowed IET availability to sink so low.

Surely the evidence that the HSTs are replacing IETs on GWR diagrams is enough to prove that they are *not* clapped out? I'm also not sure that many passengers sit down in a Castle HST and think -1970s..

 

[northernbelle]

Are the Laira and Long Rock staff Hitachi employees then? I had got the impression they were GWR folk.

I believe there are some of both - each attending to their respective fleets.

 

[XCTurbostar]

Case in point - 43170 + 43155 covered the Newquay diagram yesterday vice 150.

 

[cactustwirly]

This is so disappointing. Promised a standardised service on Cardiff - Taunton/Penzance with modern, more open plan trains with more tables and wider legroom, electronic reservations, plug sockets that actually fit big plugs, a functioning PIS that isn’t always broken, what do we get instead? The news that yet more of the clapped out 70s trains will continue to run for another year, no doubt wedged with hardcore HST enthusiasts who selfishly delight in this news. How disappointing that Hitachi has allowed IET availability to sink so low.

Surely a HST is better than no train at all?

If Hitachi can't provide enough trains that is the alternative

 

[michael74]

Surely the evidence that the HSTs are replacing IETs on GWR diagrams is enough to prove that they are *not* clapped out? I'm also not sure that many passengers sit down in a Castle HST and think -1970s..

They are though, the interiors are slowly falling apart and shabby, a pain in the bum to work, good riddance a shame the IET availability doesn't allow for them to go sooner.

 

[DanNCL]

This is so disappointing. Promised a standardised service on Cardiff - Taunton/Penzance with modern, more open plan trains with more tables and wider legroom, electronic reservations, plug sockets that actually fit big plugs, a functioning PIS that isn’t always broken, what do we get instead? The news that yet more of the clapped out 70s trains will continue to run for another year, no doubt wedged with hardcore HST enthusiasts who selfishly delight in this news. How disappointing that Hitachi has allowed IET availability to sink so low.

Hitachi haven’t allowed availability to ‘sink so low’, it was never great to start with. Same applies for all 80x fleets. At least GWR have the HSTs (and LNER the 91s), TPE and Lumo don’t have alternatives so are often left cancelling services. Would you rather the 1970s train took you to your destination or would you rather be left freezing cold on the platform? I know which I’d prefer…

 

[43096]

This is so disappointing. Promised a standardised service on Cardiff - Taunton/Penzance with modern, more open plan trains with more tables and wider legroom, electronic reservations, plug sockets that actually fit big plugs, a functioning PIS that isn’t always broken, what do we get instead? The news that yet more of the clapped out 70s trains will continue to run for another year, no doubt wedged with hardcore HST enthusiasts who selfishly delight in this news. How disappointing that Hitachi has allowed IET availability to sink so low.

The alternative is cancelled and/or short formed trains. What would you rather have?

 

[fgwrich]

This is so disappointing. Promised a standardised service on Cardiff - Taunton/Penzance with modern, more open plan trains with more tables and wider legroom, electronic reservations, plug sockets that actually fit big plugs, a functioning PIS that isn’t always broken, what do we get instead? The news that yet more of the clapped out 70s trains will continue to run for another year, no doubt wedged with hardcore HST enthusiasts who selfishly delight in this news. How disappointing that Hitachi has allowed IET availability to sink so low.

Another laughable comment.

Hitachi haven’t allowed availability to ‘sink so low’, it was never great to start with. Same applies for all 80x fleets. At least GWR have the HSTs (and LNER the 91s), TPE and Lumo don’t have alternatives so are often left cancelling services. Would you rather the 1970s train took you to your destination or would you rather be left freezing cold on the platform? I know which I’d prefer…

Exactly this - Hitachi promised so much yet failed to deliver. The other irony is that the IETs should be providing your mainline service than confined to all stations services across the southwest with would have otherwise been provided by a 150. So on that point, the HST is already somewhat better. On my travels to and from the South West last week, all the HST PIS's were working (if a little too loud in one sets case), the IETs weren't (only one out of 5 IETs used). And are electronic reservations actually needed on an all stations train in Cornwall? Is First Class needed on an all stations train in Cornwall? Is 3.5 Coaches vs 4 needed in Devon and Cornwall - From my travels last week, 4 coaches were definitely needed and this was post half term. And they weren't "wedged with hardcore HST enthusiasts selfishly delighting in their train being a HST" than ordinary members of the public travelling to / from work, holiday makers (mostly Japanese tourists it seemed), Rugby and Football fans travelling too and from games etc.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Surely the evidence that the HSTs are replacing IETs on GWR diagrams is enough to prove that they are *not* clapped out? I'm also not sure that many passengers sit down in a Castle HST and think -1970s..

I personally do, and you can tell that they’re a much older train from on board. Have you spoken to any passengers whose opinions would support what you’re saying here?

Surely a HST is better than no train at all?

If Hitachi can't provide enough trains that is the alternative

Of course it is, but I am criticising the fact that the maintenance of the IETs is so poor that the HSTs have needed to be retained. I’m criticising the fact that “no train at all” would even be an option.

Hitachi haven’t allowed availability to ‘sink so low’, it was never great to start with. Same applies for all 80x fleets. At least GWR have the HSTs (and LNER the 91s), TPE and Lumo don’t have alternatives so are often left cancelling services. Would you rather the 1970s train took you to your destination or would you rather be left freezing cold on the platform? I know which I’d prefer…

This is a differently worded replica of what cactustwirly said, so I’ll refer you to the same answer above.

Another laughable comment.

I fail to see how responding to the post with this and nothing more adds anything to the thread.

Exactly this - Hitachi promised so much yet failed to deliver.

And that is exactly what I’m criticising here, the fact that Hitachi has failed to deliver and we are stuck with the knackered old trains. So effectively you’ve just made the point that I made and was told was “laughable.”

Regarding your comment about 3.5 coaches VS 4, I notice you included that but failed to mention that IETs have 26m coaches and MK3s are 23m. If you want to lament over a single metre’s distance, be my guest.

I am criticising Hitachi for letting it get to this point, so you have no need to be defensive on your TOC’s behalf.

 

[Snow1964]

Surely a HST is better than no train at all?

If Hitachi can't provide enough trains that is the alternative

For a £300m contract, its a shame it wasn't of format Hitachi are to provide X serviceable trains each day, and if you need extra build some at your expense.

Of course, had contract been like that then the cost would have ultimately been factored in contract price

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely the evidence that the HSTs are replacing IETs on GWR diagrams is enough to prove that they are *not* clapped out? I'm also not sure that many passengers sit down in a Castle HST and think -1970s..

They're not in the best of nick unlike the ScotRail ones, they are just as they were when running out of Paddington, including the horrible lighting and broken stuff.

 

[northernbelle]

The truth is that the HSTs are pretty knackered - they don't have the accessibility expected nowadays and the seating layout is not suitable for the leisure market these services primarily facilitate.

While there are specific aspects of the IETs that people aren't keen on - e.g. seat hardness, splashy sinks, the fact (not opinion), remains that the majority of customers have been happier with the on board provision since IETs replaced HSTs. I've worked IETs on the Cardiff stoppers and they are FAR more suitable than the HSTs - both in terms of the on board experience and in terms of performance at and between stations.

I'm not excusing Hitachi's availability figures though and I'm pleased to see the GWR fleet won't be quite as stretched as first thought.

 

[Western Sunset]

Not sure if 9-car IETs are the best use of resources on Penzance/Taunton - Cardiff turns though, as one sometimes sees.

 

[Clarence Yard]

For a £300m contract, its a shame it wasn't of format Hitachi are to provide X serviceable trains each day, and if you need extra build some at your expense.

Of course, had contract been like that then the cost would have ultimately been factored in contract price

That is the contract - provide x units a day at the cost of y thousand pounds per unit. Failure to supply is a commuted or waived daily payment, if it is Hitachi’s fault. The y figure is actually 5 figures, a day!

But if you (or your passengers) bend it whilst it is in traffic or you are late delivering it to the right depot at the right time and it can’t go out as a result, that’s your fault. You still pay.

 

[michael74]

Not sure if 9-car IETs are the best use of resources on Penzance/Taunton - Cardiff turns though, as one sometimes sees.

No its not. The plan is to balance the fleet so they are served by 5 cars, hence some maintaince going to Laira and the sidings being created at Penzance

 

[Ashley Hill]

I've worked IETs on the Cardiff stoppers and they are FAR more suitable than the HSTs - both in terms of the on board experience and in terms of performance at and between stations.

Yes,first class passengers with complimentary trolley service,plenty of room for bikes,a nice big area for prams in first class.
And in the real world………

Have you spoken to any passengers whose opinions would support what you’re saying here?

Have you spoken to anyone (other than enthusiasts) who genuinely prefer an IET?

 

[northernbelle]

Yes,first class passengers with complimentary trolley service,plenty of room for bikes,a nice big area for prams in first class.
And in the real world………


Have you spoken to anyone (other than enthusiasts) who genuinely prefer an IET?

No, in terms of experience I was thinking more that fact there are tables around 4, better disabled access, reservations available, bigger doorways with less of a step, more toilets, a reliable PIS system inside and out, aircon that actually works in the summer etc. This is actually what people care about after reliability of the service. I'm not denying there are some inferior aspects such as the provision for bikes or a large 'general use' area for buggies and the like.

It's the enthusiast lobby that seem to decry the IETs - the truth is most passengers don't actually care about what the train is but more the key features of it. Believe it or not, enthusiast specialisms such as seat hardness is trumped by other factors, many of which the HSTs, these days, fall short on.

 

[XCTurbostar]

I personally do, and you can tell that they’re a much older train from on board. Have you spoken to any passengers whose opinions would support what you’re saying here?

I would say that you are more educated than most passengers, most just want to get from A to B for a good price, with a seat and on time. Whilst I agree that the IETs would represent an upgrade on a HST (for the average person), that doesn't mean much to most if it never turns up because Hitachi are failing. Hence, I believe the decision to retain is in the passenger's interest.

They're not in the best of nick unlike the ScotRail ones, they are just as they were when running out of Paddington, including the horrible lighting and broken stuff.

I don't think this is specific to the HSTs though.. most of the 166s and 158s have broken plug sockets, worn seats and broken lights.

 

[Benjwri]

Have you spoken to anyone (other than enthusiasts) who genuinely prefer an IET?

Whenever I travel to Cornwall I attempt to find an IET service to travel back on because half the time the HSTs lose so much time that I miss my connection in Plymouth. That is the most important factor to me and the majority of passengers.

 

[43096]

Whenever I travel to Cornwall I attempt to find an IET service to travel back on because half the time the HSTs lose so much time that I miss my connection in Plymouth. That is the most important factor to me and the majority of passengers.

There is no reason why an HST should lose time. In fact, it should be able to beat the IET on diesel as a 2+4 HST has a rather better power:weight ratio (15.8hp/t against 11.6hp/t for the Hitachi dross).

 

[LOL The Irony]

There is no reason why an HST should lose time. In fact, it should be able to beat the IET on diesel as a 2+4 HST has a rather better power:weight ratio (15.8hp/t against 11.6hp/t for the Hitachi dross).

A better power to weight ratio doesn't necessarily mean better acceleration as it relies on how much of that power you put down to the rails. However, it wouldn't surprise me if they accelerated faster than the IETs.

 

[michael74]

There is no reason why an HST should lose time. In fact, it should be able to beat the IET on diesel as a 2+4 HST has a rather better power:weight ratio (15.8hp/t against 11.6hp/t for the Hitachi dross).

2+4s also loose time because apart from a couple of stations dispatch must be done from the TGS so if you have had to use SDO you have to move back to the TGS. If you have a ramp at Highbridge and the unit is in reverse formation you have to move the train etc it's a right old faff. Once you loose time you never get it back on a 2+4.