Sad Sprinter
Established Member
Does anyone have any wishes or predictions for the 2022 range? I haven't heard anything about it anywhere, but as usual I'm holding out for a Southern Region EMU of some kind.
None of the mainstream manufacturers seem interested in post 2000 Southern region stuff sadly.
There's a few 3D printing specialist who offer bodykits & conversion tools for Bachmann 170s, but other than that it's a barren wilderness!
None of the mainstream manufacturers seem interested in post 2000 Southern region stuff sadly.
There's a few 3D printing specialist who offer bodykits & conversion tools for Bachmann 170s, but other than that it's a barren wilderness!
This seems the best place to put this - looking on Twitter today, looks like Hornby have put up the prices of (at least some of) their models. From the replies to https://twitter.com/hornby/status/1477927869259169795:
I must admit, I've not been checking on the prices of Hornby's models enough (for 'enough', read 'at all') to see if these are massive increases, but from what I remember of the prices before, these are definitely not-insignificant. I wonder if this is indicative of what we'll be seeing from Hornby in their 2022 range? From what I can see on Twitter, these are increases on top of the 10% increases from last year (the reason for which escapes me but I know it was something to do with the pandemic).
-Peter
At least dick Turpin used to wear a mask
Not again. The prices went up last summer as well. From the looks of things this is on every model not just a few. Comparting to Kernow's website which looks like they still have the old prices:This seems the best place to put this - looking on Twitter today, looks like Hornby have put up the prices of (at least some of) their models. From the replies to https://twitter.com/hornby/status/1477927869259169795:
I must admit, I've not been checking on the prices of Hornby's models enough (for 'enough', read 'at all') to see if these are massive increases, but from what I remember of the prices before, these are definitely not-insignificant. I wonder if this is indicative of what we'll be seeing from Hornby in their 2022 range? From what I can see on Twitter, these are increases on top of the 10% increases from last year (the reason for which escapes me but I know it was something to do with the pandemic).
-Peter
Did make me smile as well!This made me chuckle:
Brexit
Higher Import costs
Labour Shortages, possibly meaning Hornby have to pay higher wages
Increasing price of fuel, and HGV drivers pay
Inflation and interest rates rising
Increased costs of materials, including cardboard for shipping which means the price has gone up.
Presumably rising wages in China
All these things add up. I think that as a purchaser, you need to choose more and more carefully and do careful and thorough price research. Who even pays Hornby's RRP for anything anyway; those prices are pretty much just fantasy prices to make you think you're getting a good deal paying a slightly lower price at x models...
Would an example of 'shrinkflation' be reintroducing the short length Mark 3?manufacturers/ products cut corners or trim things back ("shrinkflation" etc), Hornby seem confident that they know how elastic the demand is
Would an example of 'shrinkflation' be reintroducing the short length Mark 3?
Funnily enough I nearly went for N when I rejoined the hobby due to being able to fit more in the same space, but decided that I'd struggle with the smaller scale (and wouldn't be able to collaborate with my brother).Everyone should go for N gauge. That’s sensible shrinkflation.
Since retirement 4 years ago, I've had an itch to build a 00 railway, but the prices seem high to me and I'm resisting the plunge.These are all valid points, and I'm not arguing with them as reasons why we need to pay more for the same quality of product
But it feels worth mentioning that one reason why they are charging best part of a hundred pounds per carriage is that they feel that the market can sustain these prices - this isn't just a 2021 thing, it feels like they've been going up above inflation year after year for some time now - but the people who buy them seem happy to continue to do so - whilst some other industries/ manufacturers/ products cut corners or trim things back ("shrinkflation" etc), Hornby seem confident that they know how elastic the demand is - people will continue to keep paying good money for a high quality "replica" rather than making cheaper "toys"
Imagine how much that would cost to fill up my baseboards!Everyone should go for N gauge. That’s sensible shrinkflation.
The celebrating Scotland one will be a 9 car as a 5 car. The other set looks to be correctly numbered as a 5 car set from the engine shed pictures from last year.Am I right in thinking that Hornby have still only released 5 car LNER Azuma sets, which carry 9 car numbers?
I've got to say the television series has put me off using Hornby.Hornby rely on there name to sale there models. They need to focus on there Quality control first . Like the Mazak rot for one. The last new model i purchased came of the first set of points as the back to back was out.
I can't agree with you there. Several of their recent business practices reek of just wanting to make more money.Brexit
Higher Import costs
Labour Shortages, possibly meaning Hornby have to pay higher wages
Increasing price of fuel, and HGV drivers pay
Inflation and interest rates rising
Increased costs of materials, including cardboard for shipping which means the price has gone up.
Presumably rising wages in China
Whilst it might be alright for those who don't care as much about perfect realism, the pack - which admittedly isn't just the engine (it comes with three Mk2s) - costs £181.49 at the moment. Looks like a bargain at first glance until you realise it's an old tooling made to look like a more modern design.
You can even see in this photo where the piece of plastic designed to make one window half-sized doesn't fit properly into the bottom of the frame. The pieces which are designed to look like vents are also extra pieces of plastic fitted into the window frames, just with black lines printed on them. You can see on the full-sized piece that the colour of that bit isn't the same shade as the coach body - not a major issue, but also not worth £42.49.
That's the nature of business. They aren't a charity.I can't agree with you there. Several of their recent business practices reek of just wanting to make more money.
You raise some valid points, but the examples you quote just highlight the importance of doing price research. If you don't do research, are cash-rich or are desperate for a model and you're going to buy it regardless of the price you will pay a premium for it. If you're more discerning; wait your time, shop around and buy it when you find it at the price you want- you can find a bargain. Brand New Smokey Joe from a retailer - £22, or a special edition one for £39.99. Is the hobby really that expensive? Certainly, it can be if you want the latest and greatest all the time, but if you're less fussy there are bargains out there to be had. Hornby feel they can charge high prices as a lot of their customers think they are the only supplier of model railways; it's essentially a tax on not doing price research (or ignorance), and as long as people keep paying it, they will keep charging it.There is a case to be made for Hornby's price rises not necessarily being particularly relevant to the majority of modellers (as has been mentioned). However, the thing to consider is that a lot of people are going to buy directly from Hornby, or at least buy from smaller model shops which have, to some degree, also put up the price; these are likely to be newcomers to the hobby, and whilst they are not going to be likely to buy a brand new APT or Evening Star, they'll be wanting to buy some of the smaller engines and items of rolling stock.
And just to show that it's not restricted just to Hornby's site (and I'm not saying these prices are the result of the most recent price rises), a quick look on Hattons' website provides the following:
Hornby R30051 Bagnall 0-4-0 diesel shunter "G.Lee Mining Company"
hattons.co.uk Hornby R30051 Bagnall 0-4-0 diesel shunter "G.Lee Mining Company"www.hattons.co.ukHornby R3359 Ex-GWR Class 101 0-4-0 391 'Rothery Industries' - Railroad
hattons.co.uk Hornby R3359 Ex-GWR Class 101 0-4-0 391 'Rothery Industries' - Railroad Rangewww.hattons.co.uk(There's not really a lot to quote from the three here, but they're all Hornby 0-4-0s - the basic ones - with an average price of £39 each.)Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR black
hattons.co.uk Hornby R3064 Class 0F Pug 0-4-0ST 56025 'Smokey Joe' in BR blackwww.hattons.co.uk
I'm not saying we need the prices to come down to silly ideas such as engines costing only £100 ("only"), but prices coming down to sensible levels would be so much better for everyone.
There's a case to be made for newly-tooled engines costing, for example, £180 or maybe even £200 for a really fancy engine, but not if they're going to have issues such as parts of the front of Hornby's new W1s breaking, colours not being correct (see Hornby's GBRf Class 50s, or pretty much any of their GBRf stuff from what I've heard?), or locomotives needing the back-to-back dimensions on the axles axles to be fixed before they run properly.
There's also the matter of inaccurate models. Hornby have developed a liking for releasing models which don't look much like their real-life counterparts of late (I mean that's not to say they've not done it before - see their GWR 0-4-0 for one!) - they've taken the idea of Class 57s using the bodyshells from 47s a bit too literally with this pack: https://uk.hornby.com/products/drs-northern-belle-train-pack-era-10-r3697
Whilst it might be alright for those who don't care as much about perfect realism, the pack - which admittedly isn't just the engine (it comes with three Mk2s) - costs £181.49 at the moment. Looks like a bargain at first glance until you realise it's an old tooling made to look like a more modern design.
Another example of making a few quick changes to models to produce new versions is Hornby's Network Rail (and other test train-related) rolling stock. From my own experience, I can say that some aspects of these models look a bit poor in comparison to what else one might be able to find on the market - an example is this Network Rail Lecture Coach Mk3. Current price £42.49 and you can see even from the photos that the smaller windows - or parts where windows have been removed (or otherwise covered) on the real thing - have been achieved by fitting small pieces of yellow plastic into them on the model.
You can even see in this photo where the piece of plastic designed to make one window half-sized doesn't fit properly into the bottom of the frame. The pieces which are designed to look like vents are also extra pieces of plastic fitted into the window frames, just with black lines printed on them. You can see on the full-sized piece that the colour of that bit isn't the same shade as the coach body - not a major issue, but also not worth £42.49.
Sorry for such a long moan but that's just my thoughts. I've probably got all sorts of stuff muddled up so do correct me on those bits!
-Peter
The main problem for me is primarily about the newcomer to the hobby. Certainly when I started out with model railways a few years ago, I'd never heard of the likes of Hattons, Hereford Model Centre, etc., and so Hornby* (and the local model shop) were the go-to places for models. For those in the Train Simulator community, a good comparison would be a newcomer only knowing that you can buy TS products through Steam, and not from other developers such as Armstrong Powerhouse; some may hear about these other developers sooner than others and therefore start buying their products earlier-on in their 'journey' (no pun intended) into Train Simulator. The analogy would be that buying directly from Hornby is the equivalent of buying Train Simulator items directly from Steam, and buying models from other retailers is the equivalent of buying Train Sim things from places such as Armstrong Powerhouse.You raise some valid points, but the examples you quote just highlight the importance of doing price research. If you don't do research, are cash-rich or are desperate for a model and you're going to buy it regardless of the price you will pay a premium for it. If you're more discerning; wait your time, shop around and buy it when you find it at the price you want- you can find a bargain. Brand New Smokey Joe from a retailer - £22, or a special edition one for £39.99. Is the hobby really that expensive? Certainly, it can be if you want the latest and greatest all the time, but if you're less fussy there are bargains out there to be had. Hornby feel they can charge high prices as a lot of their customers think they are the only supplier of model railways; it's essentially a tax on not doing price research (or ignorance), and as long as people keep paying it, they will keep charging it.
R3064 BR saddle tank 'Smokey Joe' (Railroad) [r3064] - £22.00 : The Hereford Model Centre, Hornby, Bachmann, Gaugemaster, Graham Farish, Heljan, LGB, Lyddle End, Peco, Skaledale, ViTrains, Liliput, Dapol
The Hereford Model Centre R3064 BR saddle tank 'Smokey Joe' (Railroad) [r3064] - No. 56025herefordmodels.com
R3822 Smokey Joe Centenary edition [r3822] - £39.99 : The Hereford Model Centre, Hornby, Bachmann, Gaugemaster, Graham Farish, Heljan, LGB, Lyddle End, Peco, Skaledale, ViTrains, Liliput, Dapol
The Hereford Model Centre R3822 Smokey Joe Centenary edition [r3822] - Limited edition of 2000. Model has enhanced livery and handrails fittedherefordmodels.com