renegademaster
Member
For a heritage railway to spend its own money worrying about its visitors emissions when its going to spew coal smoke constantly for the whole day is silly.
The amount of smoke produced by all steam locomotives in the country over the course of a year is less than that produced by a single power station in one day. It really isn't something to be concerned about.For a heritage railway to spend its own money worrying about its visitors emissions when its going to spew coal smoke constantly for the whole day is silly.
neither is the drop in the ocean of people driving to heritage railwaysThe amount of smoke produced by all steam locomotives in the country over the course of a year is less than that produced by a single power station in one day. It really isn't something to be worried about
The emissions from coal burnt in the course of heritage steam operations has been discussed in the House of Commons Select Committee Report on Coal in the Tourism Sector.The amount of smoke produced by all steam locomotives in the country over the course of a year is less than that produced by a single power station in one day. It really isn't something to be concerned about.
It's not just about them driving to that one attraction on that one day. It's about whether they could also do without a car on the other 364 days. The more journeys you make convenient with public transport and/or active travel the more likely they will be to decide to abandon motoring entirely, saving 2.4 tonnes of CO2 per year per car removed from the roads. You need to get to the stage where virtually every activity they want to do is accessible in order to have that shift.neither is the drop in the ocean of people driving to heritage railways
This.
In the case of the KWVR, there are a number of reasons around this decision:
1) The add on through ticket is only available where there is a Route Any Permitted Anytime or Off Peak Day Return fare. It is not available on Single, "Open" Returns, Advance or TOC Only, e.g Northern Only tickets. With the growing number of Advance and TOC only fares and changes in ticket types available for certain journeys, it is now the case that it isn't possible to get a through ticket from lots of places where they were traditionally sold. Thus their availability is poor and varied, making effective advertising difficult. I.e. They were no longer available from York, or Doncaster, but were from Sheffield and Leeds. For many other journeys within the region Advance tickets are becoming increasingly popular.
2) You cannot restrict the dates the product is available. There have been people turning up on days we are closed with the tickets. Whilst that is not the fault of the KWVR, it does inevitably reflect badly and cause confusion.
3) Following on from (2), it causes problems on Galas or Events when KWVR fares are increased.
4) With the advent of internet bookings for heritage railways many visitors can now get a better overall price by buying tickets separately. This is also better for the KWVR as we get all the income straight away.
The commercial decision is thus that overall it is in our interests to remove the ticket.
Of note however is that you can still get a 20% discount on normal days on the cost of a Rover by presenting a Transdev Treats Voucher. These are issued free of charge by bus drivers when buying your bus ticket on a Transdev bus service.
It's only 10% according to Transdev, and they are much rarer IME than NR through ticketsNot sure what the commercial arrangement is between the KWVR and Transdev buses, but have you looked into also extending the 20% discount to passengers who present a train ticket to Keighley? Wouldn’t that also mostly solve problems that you have listed?
Yes, my fault, a typo.It's only 10% according to Transdev, and they are much rarer IME than NR through tickets
Yes, my fault, a typo.
It's 10% with Transdev Treats.
I've had 20% stuck in my head for some reason.
says it is 10% off.Sorry, we can't find this page!
www.transdevbus.co.uk
But this says it is 20% off
Sorry, we can't find this page!
www.transdevbus.co.uk
It probably was joined up, then WMT changed the scheduleI'm staying in Brum this weekend for the Vintage Trains charter to Carlisle with 5051 on Saturday.
On the Sunday I have planned to travel back to Bristol via Kidderminster and enjoy a day on the Severn Valley, and booked their day rover accordingly.
More than I bit disappointed to find out the first train from Snow Hill arrives Kiddy four minutes after the SVR train leaves.
Not exactly 'joined up' is it?!
Or maybe the SVR operates a 7-day base timetable rather than varying the first departure for Sundays only?It probably was joined up, then WMT changed the schedule
Maybe they’ve not realised, or not even considered it at all.
Or maybe it’s a ploy to get you to have breakfast there while you wait.
Timetabling single track heritage railways is actually quite difficult. There will be a round trip minimum time because of passing other trains. It may be that loosing the connection for an average of 2.3 passengers on an early morning train from Snow Hill means a better connection for the 4.6 passengers that arrive on the second train. Of course it doesnt affect the 148 passengers that arrive by car and pay the car park chargeOr maybe the SVR operates a 7-day base timetable rather than varying the first departure for Sundays only?
Granted, some see it as a tradeoff when traveling to heritage railways from public transport networks; it will take a lot of work for people to make that first train. However, when I went up to see the SVR Autumn Gala, many people were going from the national rail station to the SVR one. From my experience, it doesn't matter if you can't make the first train on the heritage railways when visiting just as long as you get the last one back to the national rail station.Timetabling single track heritage railways is actually quite difficult. There will be a round trip minimum time because of passing other trains. It may be that loosing the connection for an average of 2.3 passengers on an early morning train from Snow Hill means a better connection for the 4.6 passengers that arrive on the second train. Of course it doesnt affect the 148 passengers that arrive by car and pay the car park charge
Ive posed the question to the committee of volunteers who are organising the Diesel Gala. Apparently the timetable for the bus link hasnt been finalised yet although it is intended that it will run throughout the day. As soon as it is confirmed it will be publicised on the railways website.Granted, some see it as a tradeoff when traveling to heritage railways from public transport networks; it will take a lot of work for people to make that first train. However, when I went up to see the SVR Autumn Gala, many people were going from the national rail station to the SVR one. From my experience, it doesn't matter if you can't make the first train on the heritage railways when visiting just as long as you get the last one back to the national rail station.
Regarding the thread's topic, I was looking at the K&ESR diesel gala event page. The bus link piques my interest during that event as it will mean that the K&ESR will technically serve Headcorn again (albeit for one weekend and in bus replacement form) and that some interesting diesels, such as the Class 37 from the GCR, will visit that gala.
However, when it came to the bus link, the most I saw was this in the Beerex subsection: 'The train arrives back in Tenterden just before 10pm, in time for the vintage bus link to Headcorn station.'
I want to ask why the KESR intends to get the bus link for the event but with little reference to its existence on the website or promotions.
Diesel Gala 2024 - Kent & East Sussex Railway
Monday 15th and Tuesday 16th April 2024 If you're looking for a little more, there's the unique opportunity to enjoy 90 minutes of driving a diesel hauled train on the K&ESR - including your chance to drive up Tenterden bank, the steepest incline of any heritage railway in the UK. Two of the...kesr.org.uk
Monday 15th and Tuesday 16th April 2024
If you're looking for a little more, there's the unique opportunity to enjoy 90 minutes of driving a diesel hauled train on the K&ESR - including your chance to drive up Tenterden bank, the steepest incline of any heritage railway in the UK. Two of the locomotives available to drive, the 37 and 17, have never been to the Kent & East Sussex Railway before!
The crew will drive from Tenterden to Rolvenden with you observing and will then hand over the controls for you drive to Northiam Station and all the way back to Tenterden Town Station. One guest can travel in the train you are driving, free of charge. Click below for further information and to book
Parking:
- Sheffield Park Station – free parking at the station
- Horsted Keynes Station – free parking at the station
- Kingscote – NO parking is available at this station
- East Grinstead – free blue badge parking (5 spaces). Public parking in East Grinstead
Equally disappointing is that the earliest arrival on a Sunday from Kidderminster to Birmingham is 1015am, which makes day trips by train to other heritage railways nigh on impossible on Sundays.It probably was joined up, then WMT changed the schedule
Maybe they’ve not realised, or not even considered it at all.
Or maybe it’s a ploy to get you to have breakfast there while you wait.
We have a section on travel by train on our how to get here page as below. But agree we need to advertise the link more. Our website is being updated currently so hopefully it will improve.Similarly despite actually having a mainline connection the Bluebell Railway Diesel gala page makes no mention of it, just talking about parking instead. https://www.bluebell-railway.com/diesel-gala-weekend/
@paul1609Thanks for your post 131. Ive bought the bus section to the notice of the railway. The update is currently held awaiting confirmation from the bus operators of what services they will be running when we start our main season. Both the 29 and 2 services are currently down to 4 services per day with no sunday or bank holiday service. The 2 was due to be withdrawn altogether but was then repreived at the last minute albeit for 3 bpd now 4 bpd. There seems to be some uncertainty over what will be running in the new financial year.
The 312 does not (and has never) operated to Hastings, it goes to Rye. I also think it would be helpful to highlight just how close the bus stop is to the station, rather than just "to Tenterden".By Bus - Service buses operate to Tenterden from: Ashford International (2 or 2A), Maidstone (12) and Headcorn (12), Tunbridge Wells (297), Hastings (312 and 29).
Stagecoach Arriva
You are of course right that the 312 bus doesnt go to Hastings but it does in fact provide the last public transport to Hastings from Tenterden on a Saturday and the last 2 services Mon to Friday by changing at Rye to either the train or the 100/101 services.@paul1609
I see the KESR website has been updated as per our exchange earlier in the year (posts 131 and 232 refer), but unfortunately, the information is still incorrect!
The 312 does not (and has never) operated to Hastings, it goes to Rye. I also think it would be helpful to highlight just how close the bus stop is to the station, rather than just "to Tenterden".
The 29 stops right outside the station in Northiam, yet no buses are mentioned there at all.
At least the one bus, 349, to Bodiam is correct, but again, a trick is missed by not stating it stops almost at the end of the platform.