How does route knowledge work for stations?

[Watershed]

I find that surprising. I'd have thought they would have wanted to maintain the ability to terminate a failing train in the main shed.

If you only work to/from the Airport (as I believe @driver9000 does), it's more likely a failed train would be kept at the Airport.

 

[LAX54]

Just checked every route code at my TOC and found another code that is platform specific. Amazing what you find when you go digging

Technically if a Signaller routes a train into a platform other than it's booked one, it can be counted as a wrong routing, and all that involves to the Signaller !

 

[dk1]

Technically if a Signaller routes a train into a platform other than it's booked one, it can be counted as a wrong routing, and all that involves to the Signaller !

I got wrong routed the other day, I was only 1L, reported nothing as usual & wasn't met anywhere to check on my welfare so hopefully the signaller didnt drop himself in it.

 

[GN Boy]

Until a few years ago we never went into anything else but 5 & 6 at Cambridge. Platform 4 was very very occasional maybe once every couple of years & 7 & 8 where not even built. The couple of occasions I was asked to go onto the through road & into 1 always had the signaller ask if I was happy or needed talking through the move.

A few of our depots at GN/TL are the opposite in terms of which platforms we sign - depots that sign no further north than Cambridge wouldn’t sign 5 & 6, but rather 1 to 4 and then 7 and 8.

 

[LAX54]

I got wrong routed the other day, I was only 1L, reported nothing as usual & wasn't met anywhere to check on my welfare so hopefully the signaller didnt drop himself in it.

Depends who is on, and who is the Manager ! have known forms and a meeting with tea after some incidents, which if there is no delay, seems a bit over the top, sometimes it comes from Station Staff that report it to Control.....

 

[JN114]

Are Reading drivers and guards expected to know all platforms at Basingstoke or just P5?

All platforms - while not timetabled they are sent into the main station often during disruption. 4 is most common after 5; but I’ve seen all of 1-4 used over years as a controller.

 

[43066]

Generally if you sign the station then you sign all the platforms, irrespective of how often you go into them. There are exceptions eg London Victoria Central and Eastern sides, St. Pancras high level/low level/SE/Eurostar/EMR platforms.

 

[Ashley Hill]

All platforms - while not timetabled they are sent into the main station often during disruption. 4 is most common after 5; but I’ve seen all of 1-4 used over years as a controller.

Thanks,I’ve never been anywhere other than P5 hence my question.

 

[driver9000]

If you only work to/from the Airport (as I believe @driver9000 does), it's more likely a failed train would be kept at the Airport.

That's right or it can be taken onto Longsight from the Airport without going to Piccadilly.

 

[Watershed]

That's right or it can be taken onto Longsight from the Airport without going to Piccadilly.

Well, I didn't want to dox you by mentioning Longsight

 

[Need2]

Generally if you sign the station then you sign all the platforms, irrespective of how often you go into them. There are exceptions eg London Victoria Central and Eastern sides, St. Pancras high level/low level/SE/Eurostar/EMR platforms.

What about London Bridge?
And do TL drivers sign all platforms 1-9 as technically using all the platforms could be classed as a wrong route?

 

[Supercoss]

Some oddities though, Thameslink drivers don't sign platform 4 at Bedford so unable to work trains on down fast beyond Bedford South junction even though they do sign parallel route into plat 1/2/3 .

 

[zwk500]

Some oddities though, Thameslink drivers don't sign platform 4 at Bedford so unable to work trains on down fast beyond Bedford South junction even though they do sign parallel route into plat 1/2/3 .

Platform 4 isn't reversible though, and I don't think they sign as far as Bedford North Junction for the shunt moves, so this one is logical.

 

[Val3ntine]

Clapham Junction - London Overground drivers only sign platforms 1 & 2 (and 17) even though the lines from Latchmere and Longhedge Junctions can both connect to the Windsor lines.

 

[43066]

What about London Bridge?
And do TL drivers sign all platforms 1-9 as technically using all the platforms could be classed as a wrong route?

Low level 1-9

SE metro & mainline (all SE depots now sign via LBG, apart from High Speed)

TL (all depots who sign via LBG)

AIUI TL sign all low level platforms. They mostly use 4 and 5 but can also use 3 and 6 in the case of disruption (and still continue to/from the core). For North Kent services any platform could be used to terminate and head back south, albeit hard to see why they’d ever be put into 1/2 or 7/9 as they’d conflict with SE services.

From memory 1-2 aren’t accessible from the BML.

High level 10-15

SE Tonbridge and Hastings depots only (for the GTR Tonbridge via Redhill services they work + SE mainline engineering diversions).

TL - All(?) depots who sign the BML.

Anyone who knows better, feel free to correct the above!

 

[Need2]

Low level 1-9

SE metro
TL (all depots who sign via LBG)

AIUI TL sign all low level platforms. They mostly use 4 and 5 but can also use 3 and 6 in the case of disruption (and still continue to/from the core). For North Kent services any platform could be used to terminate and head back south, albeit hard to see why they’d ever be put into 1/2 or 7/9 as they’d conflict with SE services.

From memory 1-2 aren’t accessible from the BML.

High level 10-15

SE Tonbridge and Hastings depots only (for Redhill services + engineering diversions).

TL - All(?) depots who sign the BML.

Anyone who knows better, feel free to correct the above!

Thank you for clarifying

 

[Seehof]

We used to sign Leeds but being a York driver never usually did a shunt there. One of our drivers got given a shunt move to the west, went straight out and stopped well past the gantry and came straight back in again without checking the signal which was red and had a SPAD.
To those worried about this sort of thing - always query anything uncertain with the signaller. I have never come across any signaller who has been unhelpful.

 

[Matt Taylor]

I sign Basingstoke except for P5 as we cannot be routed into it, Salisbury drivers might sign P5 though. At Clapham I only sign platforms seven to eleven, I don't sign the Southern or Overground lines nor the 'Windsor lines'. As a guard our route knowledge includes, platform lengths, dispatch procedures, location of disabled access points, location of signals and associated banner repeaters or OFF indicators, knowledge of which stations are not accessible to mobility impaired passengers is another important point so we don't strand someone on a platform.

 

[sw1ller]

Everywhere I sign I sign all the stations and shunts too. Other depots at my company refuse to do shunts at other depots though!! This annoys me immensely.

However, Manchester Piccadilly is different. The main station is separate from P 13 & 14. I’m not allowed into the main station which is ridiculous.

 

[JonathanH]

TL (all depots who sign via LBG)

AIUI TL sign all low level platforms. They mostly use 4 and 5 but can also use 3 and 6 in the case of disruption (and still continue to/from the core). For North Kent services any platform could be used to terminate and head back south, albeit hard to see why they’d ever be put into 1/2 or 7/9 as they’d conflict with SE services.

TL run through 7 to 9 overnight at London Bridge when the route via Tulse Hill is shut and platforms 4 / 5 aren't available.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9/0001-0400?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TL

 

[Class2ldn]

TL run through 7 to 9 overnight at London Bridge when the route via Tulse Hill is shut and platforms 4 / 5 aren't available.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...9/0001-0400?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=TL

We don't stop though, at TL we never use 1 and very unlikely to use 2. We can only release doors at 3,4,5,6 as the other platforms are not cleared for 700s to do station duties but we can run though them.
Its quite common on nights for the signallers to run you through 8/9 up or 7 on way down.

 

[louis97]

We don't stop though, at TL we never use 1 and very unlikely to use 2. We can only release doors at 3,4,5,6 as the other platforms are not cleared for 700s to do station duties but we can run though them.
Its quite common on nights for the signallers to run you through 8/9 up or 7 on way down.

Thameslink North Kent services use platform 2 on Sunday mornings:

Realtime Trains | Departures from London Bridge all day on 16/10/2022

Train information at London Bridge all day on 16/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[30907]

Small detail re LBG: I know it has been drastically rebuilt but 1-9 are High Level and 10-15 Low Level

Low level 1-9 High level 10-15

 

[43066]

Small detail re LBG: I know it has been drastically rebuilt but 1-9 are High Level and 10-15 Low Level

Quite right. Apologies .

 

[Stigy]

I sign Basingstoke except for P5 as we cannot be routed into it, Salisbury drivers might sign P5 though. At Clapham I only sign platforms seven to eleven, I don't sign the Southern or Overground lines nor the 'Windsor lines'. As a guard our route knowledge includes, platform lengths, dispatch procedures, location of disabled access points, location of signals and associated banner repeaters or OFF indicators, knowledge of which stations are not accessible to mobility impaired passengers is another important point so we don't strand someone on a platform.

Is it the same for your drivers? For example, regarding all platforms at Clapham bar the Windsor side, is it that you don’t physically sign them, or that your traction isn’t cleared for it and thus you wouldn’t go there? Maybe it amounts to the same thing? I’ve not thought about it much to be honest. Like at Bristol Temple Meads I don’t sign the West End, so won’t sign Platform 2 as you can only get to it from that end of the station. Similarly at Portsmouth Harbour; if we just had 16x traction, we’d never be allowed to use Platforms 3 or 5, but I sign the station and all platforms are fundamentally the same.

 

[Class2ldn]

Thameslink North Kent services use platform 2 on Sunday mornings:

Realtime Trains | Departures from London Bridge all day on 16/10/2022

Train information at London Bridge all day on 16/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Sorry I'm talking about from my depots point of view, didn't think about the Kent side so much.

 

[175001]

Take Leeds for example at our depot.

We technically sign all the platforms but ONLY come in from the west. We do not sign east of the station, and if any shunting needs to be done its an old ATN agreement that Leeds crew do it.

 

[Fenchurch SP]

We don't stop though, at TL we never use 1 and very unlikely to use 2. We can only release doors at 3,4,5,6 as the other platforms are not cleared for 700s to do station duties but we can run though them.
Its quite common on nights for the signallers to run you through 8/9 up or 7 on way down.

I have been a passenger on an early morning service which had to run non-stop through London Bridge because of overrunning engineering work on the usual platforms.

 

[TEW]

Is it the same for your drivers? For example, regarding all platforms at Clapham bar the Windsor side, is it that you don’t physically sign them, or that your traction isn’t cleared for it and thus you wouldn’t go there? Maybe it amounts to the same thing? I’ve not thought about it much to be honest. Like at Bristol Temple Meads I don’t sign the West End, so won’t sign Platform 2 as you can only get to it from that end of the station. Similarly at Portsmouth Harbour; if we just had 16x traction, we’d never be allowed to use Platforms 3 or 5, but I sign the station and all platforms are fundamentally the same.

It is the same for drivers. Waterloo-Queenstown Road is a single route, and drivers sign all lines and platforms. But beyond Queenstown Road it is split in to two routes, via Wimbledon and via Putney.

 

[baz962]

When I drove for London Overground I originally signed P1 and P2 at Stratford. When we started using 10a and 11 I had to sign them separately. Some reasons for signing platforms or having to know is the potential difference. At Nottingham for example p5 is a shortish bay and you are only allowed to take a five car in , as is the case at p7 Sheffield.
So if you were in a longer unit, you would need to know to challenge.
Also P1 at Sheffield can take upto a ten but there is a signal halfway down the platform and you can get routed in either from the start of P1 and you need to make sure the signal is off or you can get routed on a through road and drop in behind that signal with a five car max.
Also if you have to attach or detach a unit, some platforms are to tight to do this and some have plenty of room.