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How much of a general decline in parliamentary standards are we experiencing?

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brad465

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It is not democracy for all of us to be singing from the same proverbial Socialist hymn sheet and the voice crying out in the wilderness still needs to be heard.
Forgive my ignorance, but where did I personally suggest we were all "singing from the same proverbial Socialist hymn sheet"? If your point of view is one that is "crying out in the wilderness", in the wider public eye it is very easily heard.
 
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Xenophon PCDGS

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Forgive my ignorance, but where did I personally suggest we were all "singing from the same proverbial Socialist hymn sheet"? If your point of view is one that is "crying out in the wilderness", in the wider public eye it is very easily heard.
You did not need to say it, as a reading of many of the postings that had been made so far would suggest that the RailUK Forums Socialist Male Voice Choir are indeed in good voice... :D
 

brad465

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A good indicator of when something the Government has initiated isn't a good idea is the Daily Mail front paging an attack:

1635982211013.png
 

brad465

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You did not need to say it, as a reading of many of the postings that had been made so far would suggest that the RailUK Forums Socialist Male Voice Choir are indeed in good voice... :D
That choir description did make me laugh, I'll give you that, but there are plenty of moderate Tories on this forum as well, and many of them appear to be disgusted at the current Government, most especially when it comes to covid restrictions existing (read that section more if you want to find them and get out of this apparent "socialist choir").
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Calling upon Divine Intervention, if Jesus wanted to add a posting submission to this discussion, he most probably wanted to remind all the unbelievers that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.

Here endeth the lesson for today.
 

DarloRich

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Knowing of the political proclivity of many contributors on this particular website, so often revealed by threads with a poll at election times, I am pleased to see that our unsullied Socialist supporters of freedom have not let me down with their strident calls of righteousness. Of course, Robert Maxwell had been a Labour Party MP for a number of years, but that did not stop him financially raiding the pension funds of an organisation he once headed.

This is nonsense and typical of this poster. Deflect. Deny. Dont look.

Your boys are bent. We all know it. Hell, even you know it.

Calling upon Divine Intervention, if Jesus wanted to add a posting submission to this discussion, he most probably wanted to remind all the unbelievers that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of God.

Here endeth the lesson for today.
This is just nonsense. What on earth are you on about?
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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This is nonsense and typical of this poster. Deflect. Deny. Dont look.

Your boys are bent. We all know it. Hell, even you know it.
I am sure the electorate would have deeply considered the point you made at the last General Election and then looked at what the other parties had to offer.

They still returned a Conservative Government.
 

DarloRich

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I am sure the electorate would have deeply considered the point you made at the last General Election and then looked at what the other parties had to offer.

They still returned a Conservative Government.

Whatever. You clearly feel that Tory corruption is acceptable.

I held you to be someone who knew right from wrong. I was mistaken. Your stance is sadly informative.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Whatever. You clearly feel that Tory corruption is acceptable.

I held you to be someone who knew right from wrong. I was mistaken. Your stance is sadly informative.
I could have believed your point of view if corruption was only to be found in the government of this country, but against that, I invite you to see that governments of all shades and hues, left and right wing, have suffered from endemic corruption since time immemorial.
 

DarloRich

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I could have believed your point of view if corruption was only to be found in the government of this country, but against that, I invite you to see that governments of all shades and hues, left and right wing, have suffered from endemic corruption since time immemorial.


Indeed: but they haven't all changed the rules on a whim to get one of their mate off when he was caught bang to rights. Most Governments at least try to aim for probity. Most, but not this one. This one is bent.

The thing is you know this yet still seek to excuse it. Like I said, I think I was wrong about you. That makes me sad.
 
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GusB

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I could have believed your point of view if corruption was only to be found in the government of this country, but against that, I invite you to see that governments of all shades and hues, left and right wing, have suffered from endemic corruption since time immemorial.
Sorry, but just because it happens in other places doesn't make it right, does it?
 

Strathclyder

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A good indicator of when something the Government has initiated isn't a good idea is the Daily Mail front paging an attack:

View attachment 105143
The one thing I'd disagree with there - me finding myself in broad agreement with the Daily Mail is a once in a blue moon occurrence, and it's a feeling that leaves one feeling distinctly uncomfortable in a 'Through The Looking Glass'-sort of way - is the 'sink back into sleaze' part. Far as I'm concerned, Peterson and his ilk have always been neck-high in sleeze, corruption & self-dealing. Only difference now is that they're being more explicit, overt etc about it than before; in other words, they wear their brass necks with pride.

Every last bit of it stinks to high heaven, pure and simple.
 
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DynamicSpirit

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Can we call ourselves a failed state yet?

No. That's just silly, over-the-top hyperbole. A failed state would be something like Yemen or Somalia: The UK is not even remotely comparable to that. There are many countries that are far, far, worse than the UK in terms of corruption/authoritarianism/lack of accountability/etc. which we would not consider to be failed states - places like China and Saudi Arabia for example. Minor issues of possible corruption/bending the rules/etc. in a functioning democracy may well be concerning and regrettable, but they don't stop a country from being, overall, a functioning democracy.
 

AlterEgo

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You did not need to say it, as a reading of many of the postings that had been made so far would suggest that the RailUK Forums Socialist Male Voice Choir are indeed in good voice... :D
Being against this sort of behaviour is socialist, is it?

I could have believed your point of view if corruption was only to be found in the government of this country, but against that, I invite you to see that governments of all shades and hues, left and right wing, have suffered from endemic corruption since time immemorial.
That's like shrugging your shoulders at an atrocity and saying "well, even in Biblical times, there was bloodshed". You are better than this sort of guff.
 

C J Snarzell

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I've been following the Margaret Ferrier case in Scotland, and she is another MP who has shown a complete disregard for the law/procedures and the people of her constituency. I can't believe she has the bare face cheek to remain in office.

CJ
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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That's like shrugging your shoulders at an atrocity and saying "well, even in Biblical times, there was bloodshed". You are better than this sort of guff.
It may well have been prevalent in Biblical times, but has carried on through the ages since then. A number of African countries after they gained independence in the 1960s from their former European colonial powers, also found corruption not only at the position of Head of State, but at minor official status.

Incidentally, with your reference to "bloodshed", what exactly are the actual offences that the MP had been accused of and what actions the police are taking. I ask this to try to bring a little realism into the debate, as some postings seem somewhat "over the top" as I cannot see any human rights being infringed by the supposed actions of the MP.
 
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AlterEgo

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It may well have been prevalent in Biblical times, but has carried on through the ages since then. A number of African countries after they gained independence in the 1960s from their former European colonial powers, also found corruption not only at the position of Head of State, but at minor official status.

Incidentally, with your reference to "bloodshed", what exactly are the actual offences that the MP had been accused of and what actions the police are taking. I ask this to try to bring a little realism into the debate, as some postings seem somewhat "over the top" as I cannot see any human rights being infringed by the supposed actions of the MP.
Nobody is suggesting the MP infringed anyone’s human rights, just that he’s bent and you are perfectly happy with that.
 

DarloRich

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I notice this morning government ministers are "doubling down" and calling in media interviews for the Standards Commissioner to quit. Anyone would think Johnson was under review by the same Commissioner and was trying to rig the jury! Surely not.
 

GatwickDepress

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I notice this morning government ministers are "doubling down" and calling in media interviews for the Standards Commissioner to quit. Anyone would think Johnson was under review by the same Commissioner and was trying to rig the jury! Surely not.
I am shocked, shocked I tell you.
 

nlogax

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I notice this morning government ministers are "doubling down" and calling in media interviews for the Standards Commissioner to quit. Anyone would think Johnson was under review by the same Commissioner and was trying to rig the jury! Surely not.
Pretty much underlines my point earlier in the thread. This particular government is utterly appalling.
 

EssexGonzo

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So all of us in this thread (bar one poster :rolleyes:) believe that the Tories are excelling at Sleaze, corruption and a very impressive lack of integrity.

However, and I ask this as a slightly-left-of-centre-person-who-feels-politically-abandoned, where on earth is the opposition? Still eating itself over the lunatic that lost the last election? Where’s the Labour comms machine? Where’s the noise?

I suspect that part of the answer lies in the fact that the Tories and their tax-avoiding billionaire mates have a stranglehold on the press and BBC. But we are being failed by the opposition as well as this ugly, nasty, contemptible, incompetent, sneering government.
 

Kez

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It is not democracy for all of us to be singing from the same proverbial Socialist hymn sheet and the voice crying out in the wilderness still needs to be heard.

Oh come on.

An MP was found guilty of gross breach of standards of conduct with regard to priority access for cash. All this obfuscation about the rules being wrong or that it is some Socialist conspiracy is just ridiculous. He was found guilty under the rules AS THEY STAND. Want to change the rules ? Fine ... but don't do it to include your mate and do it by parliamentary consensus.

Are you really happy with this level of governance ? Really ? Because if you are, you do not deserve to live in a parliamentary democracy and should refrain from participating in it. Politicians are in parliament to represent their electors not whoever is bunging them the biggest wodge of cash

It does Patterson no credit to use his wife's suicide to try and get himself a bit of sympathy. Looking at it the other way, she might have committed suicide because she suddenly realised she was married to a corrupt politician.

As for Leadsom, even my staunch Tory parents hold their noses when they vote for her to be their constituency MP.

So all of us in this thread (bar one poster :rolleyes:) believe that the Tories are excelling at Sleaze, corruption and a very impressive lack of integrity.

However, and I ask this as a slightly-left-of-centre-person-who-feels-politically-abandoned, where on earth is the opposition? Still eating itself over the lunatic that lost the last election? Where’s the Labour comms machine? Where’s the noise?

I suspect that part of the answer lies in the fact that the Tories and their tax-avoiding billionaire mates have a stranglehold on the press and BBC. But we are being failed by the opposition as well as this ugly, nasty, contemptible, incompetent, sneering government.

But the electorate (for whatever reason), do not vote based on the integrity of their politicians so there is a limit to what Labour can, or should, do. They don't want to be seen to be focusing on this when there are much more pressing issues for the voting public.

I mean, if the public cared so much anyway then they wouldn't have let Johnson anywhere near the gates of Parliament and would have put Hancock in the stocks to have rotten fruit and veg thrown at him for a year.

It's that wonderful British love of the dodgy dealer who breaks 'the rules'.

"You're just like one of us, guvnor" [:tugs forelock:]
 
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Sm5

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Politics is a waste of time in this country.
Has been since the Normans invaded.

We are ruled, with the disguise of it being, by choice.
 

brad465

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Still breaking news, but seems the Government have caved into rethinking things:


Government to rethink plans for policing MPs' behaviour after controversy over Tory MP Owen Paterson

I wouldn't be surprised though if this means just delaying it till a time where it will get less attention and go ahead with the same plans, and all the while Owen Paterson will still avoid serving his recommended suspension.
 

Kez

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Still breaking news, but seems the Government have caved into rethinking things:




I wouldn't be surprised though if this means just delaying it till a time where it will get less attention and go ahead with the same plans, and all the while Owen Paterson will still avoid serving his recommended suspension.

Not good enough. MPs shouldn't react to 'backlashes' and 'controversy' .
They should hold a set of moral values where they know instinctively when they are doing something that is fundamentally wrong.
Otherwise, it stinks of seeing what you can get away with.
 
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