HS2 Manchester leg scrapped: what should happen now?

[Peter Sarf]

From what I have read so far, this has the makings of the longest-ever running thread on this website.

I can see the words "HS2" cropping up in conversations for decades. For example "remember back in the 2020s when we nearly got a UK high speed rail network - that was until HS2 got curtailed/vandalised/rationalised......".

"And to think we all now rely on Maglev" ...... "using recycled car batteries" [/Dream].

Sorry mods - a bit too speculative perhaps but I do wonder how history will view this. Will any lessons be learned. Are there any lessons to learn.

My most optimistic is of course that a new and cheap add on from Handacre to Crewe gets sanctioned very soon. Call it the North Midlands extension (Don't say it !). Perhaps the start of a more piecemeal approach to High Speed rail ?.

 

[350401]

From what I have read so far, this has the makings of the longest-ever running thread on this website.

Haha yes I think that’s quite likely. The line won’t open till 2029-33 to Curzon St, with via Handsacre services following a couple of years after services to Curzon Street start. That is a lot of time to discuss what services will actually happen. Politics will inevitably change hugely between now and 2029-33 and that in reality will determine the eventual service pattern. There is a planned service pattern but also a huge potential for this to be changed between now and the line opening.

 

[eldomtom2]

Are there any lessons to learn.

The lesson people outside the UK seem to be taking is "make sure you get costs down, because HSR projects can and will be cancelled if they cost too much".

 

[class26]

Haha yes I think that’s quite likely. The line won’t open till 2029-33 to Curzon St, with via Handsacre services following a couple of years after services to Curzon Street start. That is a lot of time to discuss what services will actually happen. Politics will inevitably change hugely between now and 2029-33 and that in reality will determine the eventual service pattern. There is a planned service pattern but also a huge potential for this to be changed between now and the line opening.

According to Roger Ford in March`s Modern Railways HS2 have now committed to an opening in 2030. Didn`t say if that was just to Curzon St or Handsacre

 

[GJMarshy]

According to Roger Ford in March`s Modern Railways HS2 have now committed to an opening in 2030. Didn`t say if that was just to Curzon St or Handsacre

Some positive news at least! It definitely does seem work is progressing at a raid rate, so this does seem entirely achievable.

If true, this could be good news for 2a. The sooner phase 1 is completed, the sooner it'll be that future government's will begin to realise HSR's potential once it's operational. In theory it should be Labour's second term by that point, which you'd hope would give them time to shift on policy. For all we know if they have a bad first term we might end up with a Labour/Lib-Dem coalition, which would actually be excellent for transport and infrastructure policy.

There might just be light at the end of the tunnel, it's maybe just a bit further away than we originally hoped!

 

[El Blanco]

Well the taxpayer did pay for Manchester City's home.

The International Freight facility next to Old Trafford does appear to be owned by MUFC https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/business/property/united-scoring-in-property-market-918142 with a few early (speculative) non-official drawings indicating using at least part of the terminal land to build a potential second stadium.

Burnham made the point at the recent press conference that all recent new stadiums had required some public money for local infrastructure to support them.

So perhaps some governement/regional funds would actually be appropriate although we could debate on how much there should be.

Burnham discussed it further in this podcast here:

https://theathletic.com/podcast/162-talk-of-the-devils/?episode=301The Rise of Garnacho & Mayor Andy Burnham on Old Trafford Plans

He talked about using public money to enable improvements to transport infrastructure that would be required with the stadium changes.

He also mentions the Freight Terminal (about 32 mins in) and, interestingly, the impact of freight trains travelling through the City Centre.

It is all probably part of a masterplan to move Trafford Park west and make the area around the stadium akin to Media City.

 

[350401]

According to Roger Ford in March`s Modern Railways HS2 have now committed to an opening in 2030. Didn`t say if that was just to Curzon St or Handsacre

That is for the Curzon Street to OOC. Via Handsacre services will follow approximately 18-24 months later. Thanks to the delays incurred by the various rephasings, Handsacre Civils is a fair bit behind compared to the rest of the programme.

 

[snowball]

Thanks to the delays incurred by the various rephasings, Handsacre Civils is a fair bit behind compared to the rest of the programme.

And presumably thanks also to uncertainty over whether or not they will revert to the originally proposed junction layout.

 

[Krokodil]

And presumably thanks also to uncertainty over whether or not they will revert to the originally proposed junction layout.

I'm sure that the Treasury are pushing through plans to convert it into a single-lead junction as we speak.

 

[The Planner]

And presumably thanks also to uncertainty over whether or not they will revert to the originally proposed junction layout.

Id bet significant amounts of cash on it staying as the slow lines connection.