HSTs in Mexico - news and progress updates

[aem7ac]

Getting closer to 50 years now, aren't they?

I believe the Tren Maya is aimed at tourists.

Is the FIT also of little use to Mexicans?

More aimed at freight to compete with the Panama Canal.
There is a clear partial tourist aim though - other passenger trains on the route will run with a Budd-built dome car for sightseeing.

 

[Killingworth]

I understand there are no other passenger mainline trains operational in Mexico, so even though this appears to be largely aimed at restoring through freight traffic, I'd assume it must be of some use given there must be plenty of low hanging fruit, in terms of reopenings, to choose from?

Designed to appeal to nostalgic train spotters with money to burn and a holiday in Mexico to sweeten the trip for the other half?

 

[aem7ac]

I understand there are no other passenger mainline trains operational in Mexico, so even though this appears to be largely aimed at restoring through freight traffic, I'd assume it must be of some use given there must be plenty of low hanging fruit, in terms of reopenings, to choose from?

There's a small commuter rail network in Mexico City and a tourist train elsewhere in the country. I think the passenger half really is being done as its owned by the government - privatization of the NdeM network in the 1990s lead US Class I freight railroads (and other investors with similar mentality) to fully discontinue passenger service as it was viewed to be an impediment to the speed of freight service.

 

[AdamWW]

There's a small commuter rail network in Mexico City and a tourist train elsewhere in the country. I think the passenger half really is being done as its owned by the government - privatization of the NdeM network in the 1990s lead US Class I freight railroads (and other investors with similar mentality) to fully discontinue passenger service as it was viewed to be an impediment to the speed of freight service.

I think the government withdrew subsidies for passenger rail in which case I don't imagine it would have continued whether it got in the way of freight or not.

 

[HSTEd]

There is a clear partial tourist aim though - other passenger trains on the route will run with a Budd-built dome car for sightseeing.

My understanding is that they bought the Budd built dome car because they could get it at extremely short notice. Following the Talgo mess in the Port Point Defiance accident there has been a crippling shortage of passenger rolling stock in North America. The wait time for new trains from the likes of Siemens is literal years.

The project was pushed forward by the President of Mexico and absolutely every stop was pulled out to get the system open in time for "AMLO" to have a triumphant ride over the line before the election in 2024.

The area is extremely impoverished and has terrible transport links, it's not really a particularly touristy area.

EDIT: Spelling

 

[AdamWW]

My understanding is that they bought the Budd built dome car because they could get it at extremely short notice. Following the Talgo mess in the Port Defiance accident there has been a crippling shortage of passenger rolling stock in North America. The wait time for new trains from the likes if Siemens is literal years.

The project was pushed forward by the President of Mexico and absolutely every stop was pulled out to get the system open in time for "AMLO" to have a triumphant ride over the line before the election in 2024.

The area is extremely impoverished and has terrible transport links, it's not really a particularly touristy area.

Presumably with the Siemens stock coming into use with Amtrak and VIA there ought to be a fair number of second hand passenger cars available in the next few years. How much life is left in them I don't know but if HSTs are considered acceptable...

(Adding a Budd dome car to an HST rake would be fun. Not going to happen of course, though VIA rail did something not a million miles from that by sticking dome cars on the back of rakes of former Nightstar stock).

 

[eldomtom2]

Presumably with the Siemens stock coming into use with Amtrak and VIA there ought to be a fair number of second hand passenger cars available in the next few years.

I would not be quite so certain - Amtrak is looking to expand service and will want as many passenger cars as they can get...

 

[Gaelan]

Following the Talgo mess in the Port Defiance accident there has been a crippling shortage of passenger rolling stock in North America.

(A little off topic, but it's Point Defiance - more specifically the Point Defiance Bypass.)

 

[AdamWW]

I would not be quite so certain - Amtrak is looking to expand service and will want as many passenger cars as they can get...

I will be somewhat surprised if they keep their entire fleet of ageing Amfleet coaches to run alongside the new trainsets.
And even more so were VIA to do the same.

 

[aem7ac]

My understanding is that they bought the Budd built dome car because they could get it at extremely short notice. Following the Talgo mess in the Port Defiance accident there has been a crippling shortage of passenger rolling stock in North America. The wait time for new trains from the likes if Siemens is literal years.

The project was pushed forward by the President of Mexico and absolutely every stop was pulled out to get the system open in time for "AMLO" to have a triumphant ride over the line before the election in 2024.

The area is extremely impoverished and has terrible transport links, it's not really a particularly touristy area.

At the time of the Port Defiance accident, the Siemens Venture was likely only under very early consideration or not under consideration at all by Amtrak. The initial replacement passenger coaching stock for all these state corridors was supposed to be a fleet of Nippon Sharyo built next-generation editions of the Surfliner cars. 2 body shells were built and they both failed crash safety tests, leading for the program to be canceled and Siemens brought on in 2019 instead.
Outside of electric locos for the Northeast Corridor and the Brightline equipment, Siemens products provided to Amtrak and other US customers have not been doing great. Midwest venture coaches have been struggling to stay in service and chargers of both the SC-44 variety and the long-distance ALC-42s are repeatedly having failures (to the point Amtrak is now returning B32-8WHs, mostly reserved for yard switching, to revenue passenger service on Chicago-based intercity trains during the winter).
Equipment is stretched to its limit outside of the NEC due to minimum axle counts.
The Budd dome car was something they could get at short notice and likely for low cost - as Railexco, who owned the dome, the amfleets, and a pair of F59PHs now bound for Mexico signed a fixed rolling stock provider agreement.

 

[FormerBritInMe]

I understand there are no other passenger mainline trains operational in Mexico, so even though this appears to be largely aimed at restoring through freight traffic, I'd assume it must be of some use given there must be plenty of low hanging fruit, in terms of reopenings, to choose from?

Besides suburban lines operating from Mexico City, there is the FCP Copper Canyon train from Chihuahua to Los Mochis which is primarily aimed at tourists rather than as a means of transport.

The main reason for the loss of passenger service was the privatisation of the NdeM 1997 - 2001. The private companies had no interest in running passenger services a la Amtrak in the US and the government had no desire to subsidize them. Given the dilapidated state of much of the service using hand me down carriages from the US and the competition from comfortable and faster coach services, it would have been an uphill battle to retain the passenger trains.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Are they run by that well-known company "Arriba Rail?"

Some more apparently on their way soon.

 

[aem7ac]

I've created a separate thread for the Nigeria HSTs as general HST export news seems to be lumped into Mexico threads.

HSTs to Nigeria

It has been clear for some time now since HST export started that Mexico was not the only destination for these trains abroad. I thought it would be worth it to have a specific thread for the equipment going to Nigeria, as there is already a Mexico-specific thread. If anyone has any specific...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[StephenHunter]

I don't think the original BR design team for this ever imagined these trains would go as far as they have.

 

[nlogax]

So what would be technically needed to get a Mk3 hitched up to an Amfleet car? This is just the sort of Frankenstein's monster I would pay money to see.

 

[AdamWW]

So what would be technically needed to get a Mk3 hitched up to an Amfleet car? This is just the sort of Frankenstein's monster I would pay money to see.

Me too.

I don't suppose coupling would be that difficult and knocking up a gangway adaptor probably not that hard either. Brake compatibility? Not sure but probably. Powering both types of coach from the same supply might be trickier though without some significant rebuilding so sadly I doubt it's something we'll see.

But you can see something not far off that in Canada - former Nightstar (Mk4-ish) coaches running coupled to 1950's Budd stainless steel stock. And it's quite a sight.

 

[Trackbedjolly]

I've created a separate thread for the Nigeria HSTs as general HST export news seems to be lumped into Mexico threads.

HSTs to Nigeria

It has been clear for some time now since HST export started that Mexico was not the only destination for these trains abroad. I thought it would be worth it to have a specific thread for the equipment going to Nigeria, as there is already a Mexico-specific thread. If anyone has any specific...

www.railforums.co.uk

that thread does not appear to be working

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

that thread does not appear to be working

Merged into the existing thread.

HSTs to Nigeria

I don't know if this has been discussed elsewhere here. On the theme of exporting HSTs abroad... I have seen postings online of HSTs being exported to Nigeria, I understand to the Lagos Metro Red Line. Anyone know anymore about what's happening?

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[WessexEclectic]

I don't think the original BR design team for this ever imagined these trains would go as far as they have.

What are the odds on a HST power car to be the 1st diesel loco to circumnavigate the globe?....

 

[Mojo]

Besides suburban lines operating from Mexico City,

A bit generous(!) The "commuter rail" is a single line operating 26km from a terminus on the edge of the CBD.

There was also a tourist train from Puebla to Choula which operated for just under 5 years from 2017 to 2021. I was there last week and took a few pics.
I believe the Tramtrains from this line will share the line with the HSTs

 

[aem7ac]

A bit generous(!) The "commuter rail" is a single line operating 26km from a terminus on the edge of the CBD.

There was also a tourist train from Puebla to Choula which operated for just under 5 years from 2017 to 2021. I was there last week and took a few pics.
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Funnily enough, the Stadler equipment from this operation will now be reused on the same line as the HSTs.

 

[Gag Halfrunt]

From the HST coach disposals thread:

The Well There's Your Problem podcast recently did an episode on the delivery of the ex Amtrak and Dome cars with the person responsible for sourcing and delivering the vehicles as a guest. The whole project sounds fairly shambolic.

He was also concerned by the possibility of the HST and US stock operating on the same lines.

 

[nlogax]

As a WTYP Patreon supporter I feel a bit sheepish for completely missing that ep. Now I need to go watch it.

 

[HST2FIT]

You can buy your tickets now for the FIT here

Pasajeros interoceánico

www.pasajerosinteroceanico.com.mx

The HST config seems to be 2+8

Tren de Pasajero Intercity pasando por Mogoñe, Oaxaca con destino a Salina Cruz, Oaxaca. A quien corresponda | By Ferroaficion del Sureste MexicanoFacebook

Tren de Pasajero Intercity pasando por Mogoñe, Oaxaca con destino a Salina Cruz, Oaxaca. A quien corresponda

www.facebook.com

Everything's ready for this friday

 

[Cowley]

As a WTYP Patreon supporter I feel a bit sheepish for completely missing that ep. Now I need to go watch it.

It was really interesting actually and although I’d read a fair bit about it on here it definitely added some extra details for me (also a fan ).

 

[AlterEgo]

You can buy your tickets now for the FIT here

Pasajeros interoceánico

www.pasajerosinteroceanico.com.mx

The HST config seems to be 2+8

Tren de Pasajero Intercity pasando por Mogoñe, Oaxaca con destino a Salina Cruz, Oaxaca. A quien corresponda | By Ferroaficion del Sureste MexicanoFacebook

Tren de Pasajero Intercity pasando por Mogoñe, Oaxaca con destino a Salina Cruz, Oaxaca. A quien corresponda

www.facebook.com

Everything's ready for this friday

Thank you for this. I'm stuggling to buy tickets on that link though.

Which services are operated by HSTs - all of them? I am tempted to drop by Mexico in January.

 

[Alfonso]

Thank you for this. I'm stuggling to buy tickets on that link though.

Which services are operated by HSTs - all of them? I am tempted to drop by Mexico in January.

Most dates seemed unavailable but I got 23rd December, coatzacoalcos 0700 to salina cruz 1428, 229 MXN in tourist class, 304MXN in executive, both prices for 1 adult 1 child. "Gerencial" (boss class) at c. 1500MXN was greyed out, dunno if non-existent or doesn't allow kids

 

[AlterEgo]

Most dates seemed unavailable but I got 23rd December, coatzacoalcos 0700 to salina cruz 1428, 229 MXN in tourist class, 304MXN in executive, both prices for 1 adult 1 child. "Gerencial" (boss class) at c. 1500MXN was greyed out, dunno if non-existent or doesn't allow kids

Thanks. I was looking at January and nothing seems available. All the pictures on the website show ex-Amtrak cars, which is strange. I'll go if it's a guaranteed HST.

 

[Royston Vasey]

You can buy your tickets now for the FIT here

Pasajeros interoceánico

www.pasajerosinteroceanico.com.mx

The HST config seems to be 2+8

Tren de Pasajero Intercity pasando por Mogoñe, Oaxaca con destino a Salina Cruz, Oaxaca. A quien corresponda | By Ferroaficion del Sureste MexicanoFacebook

Tren de Pasajero Intercity pasando por Mogoñe, Oaxaca con destino a Salina Cruz, Oaxaca. A quien corresponda

www.facebook.com

Everything's ready for this friday

Interesting consist. Are they 3x TGS or 3x TSD in the middle, or a combination?

 

[Alfonso]

Thanks. I was looking at January and nothing seems available. All the pictures on the website show ex-Amtrak cars, which is strange. I'll go if it's a guaranteed HST.

Nothing is guaranteed in Mexico. I think the odds will rise that we'll know what's likely to be on what service once its up and running. It's common in Mexico to rush for inauguration especially close to elections, then for things to not actually be sorted for a while.