Hydrogen powered trains ?

[LOL The Irony]

Article this morning suggesting that Tees Valley area could be home to the first hydrogen units. Suggestions of ten units to be housed at a new depot either at Thornaby (DB site...) or Lackenby (the old Tata/SSI loco works I gather from the mayors Facebook page). Could be running by summer 2021.

https://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news/teesside-news/teesside-could-home-first-fleet-16179606

I thought the Windermere line was going to be the testing location

 

[hwl]

I thought the Windermere line was going to be the testing location

It has been looking like battery as the alternative clean powersource for Windermere for quite a while as H2 just doesn't make sense there.

 

[Meerkat]

Is there anything on the Wílton ex-ICI sIte that produces or would be suitable to produce Hydrogen?

 

[Neen Sollars]

See Vivarail old news release below, its hydrogen four car set should be on test on the main line by end of 2019 if all goes well.

"http://vivarail.co.uk/vivarail-spearheads-development-of-green-fuel-technologies/"

Will the 230 be competing against the class 321 for orders or are the target markets different?

 

[hwl]

Is there anything on the Wílton ex-ICI site that produces or would be suitable to produce Hydrogen?

There used to be plenty of Hydrogen sources not sure how much is surplus currently though.

 

[HSTEd]

Is there anything on the Wílton ex-ICI sIte that produces or would be suitable to produce Hydrogen?

I believe there is hydrogen produced by the nylon plant on site, but hydrogen is quite valuable in chemical installations, so I am not sure how much would be available for export.

 

[hwl]

See Vivarail old news release below, its hydrogen four car set should be on test on the main line by end of 2019 if all goes well.

"http://vivarail.co.uk/vivarail-spearheads-development-of-green-fuel-technologies/"

Will the 230 be competing against the class 321 for orders or are the target markets different?

Very similar markets, Vivarail will probably win on passenger capacity because of the space wasted in the shortened 321s. The Hydrogen 321s will probably be limited to 75mph on Hydrogen to keep the energy usage down and hence range up. Viva's range is likely to be shorter. The target is for both is quieter secondary branches.

 

[hwl]

I believe there is hydrogen produced by the nylon plant on site, but hydrogen is quite valuable in chemical installations, so I am not sure how much would be available for export.

The original beauty of Wilton was the overall efficiency of material use with all the different process happening on site.

 

[Class 170101]

I am still not convinced by self powered trains compared to electrification and using the Hydrogen in the power station to generate the electricity.

 

[Dai Corner]

I am still not convinced by self powered trains compared to electrification and using the Hydrogen in the power station to generate the electricity.

Hydrogen is produced using fossil fuels and high temperature steam or by electrolysis of water, the energy required coming from any of the usual sources. Burning the hydrogen in a power station just introduces a further stage with additional costs and inefficiencies.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Vehicles near end-of-life are typically used less intensively than new vehicles

Well that's wrong for a start, you don't drive your car less or slower just because its a little old. Know one has ever said "I will walk to the shops because my car is 10 years old and needs a rest". Whether your car is 1 or 10 years old, you use it in the exact same way.

 

[Struner]

Well that's wrong for a start, you don't drive your car less or slower just because its a little old. Know one has ever said "I will walk to the shops because my car is 10 years old and needs a rest". Whether your car is 1 or 10 years old, you use it in the exact same way.

Well, when you're fed up with your old banger, it will go for razorblades - or it will be sold to someone who will use it less than you did.

 

[Dai Corner]

Well that's wrong for a start, you don't drive your car less or slower just because its a little old. Know one has ever said "I will walk to the shops because my car is 10 years old and needs a rest". Whether your car is 1 or 10 years old, you use it in the exact same way.

No, but high mileage drivers tend to buy brand new cars and change them after two or three years. The new owners are likely to be less intensive users.

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Well, when you're fed up with your old banger, it will go for razorblades - or it will be sold to someone who will use it less than you did.

Its still wrong to suggest that older cars are used less.

No, but high mileage drivers tend to buy brand new cars and change them after two or three years

That is true they will buy a new one every few years.

The new owners are likely to be less intensive users.

That bit makes way to many assumptions. The main one being that you assume that a car with high miles has been worked harder than a car with less miles. With cars mileage is irrelevant, hows its been driven its what important. I have put 6000 miles on my car in 9 months which is not a lot, but i have ragged that car about and driven it into the ground. Mind you it only cost me 310 quid. If a car has done 200000 miles but been driven well it will be in better condition than one with 30,000 that has been driven by me.

 

[Mikey C]

My car is low mileage (3000 a year) but it's a very healthy low mileage as most of it is in decent journeys (1 hour) at a reasonable speed, as opposed to someone who does lots of 2 mile hops never getting above 30.

 

[Dai Corner]

Its still wrong to suggest that older cars are used less.


That is true they will buy a new one every few years.

That bit makes way to many assumptions. The main one being that you assume that a car with high miles has been worked harder than a car with less miles. With cars mileage is irrelevant, hows its been driven its what important. I have put 6000 miles on my car in 9 months which is not a lot, but i have ragged that car about and driven it into the ground. Mind you it only cost me 310 quid. If a car has done 200000 miles but been driven well it will be in better condition than one with 30,000 that has been driven by me.

But we were talking about mileage not condition. The first owner of the car may well have driven it 20,000 miles in its first year.

 

[The Ham]

But we were talking about mileage not condition. The first owner of the car may well have driven it 20,000 miles in its first year.

There's quite a few cars which are purchased new by those who are wealthy and older who do <7,000 miles a year which then get sold on. Often to those people then do a higher milage (safe in the knowledge that when they sell it on the milage will be broadly average).

You also have to mindful that there's quite a lot of lease cars which have a milage limit which tends to mean that people are more cautious about the number of miles which they do.

 

[Dai Corner]

There's quite a few cars which are purchased new by those who are wealthy and older who do <7,000 miles a year which then get sold on. Often to those people then do a higher milage (safe in the knowledge that when they sell it on the milage will be broadly average).

You also have to mindful that there's quite a lot of lease cars which have a milage limit which tends to mean that people are more cautious about the number of miles which they do.

That's true. In fact I bought a brand new car 18 months ago and it's only done about 6000 miles. I'm not wealthy but I did get a very good deal and I plan to keep it for many years, hopefully until there are equally good deals to encourage us to switch from IC to electric cars!

 

[gazthomas]

According to the piece in The Times; https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/full-steam-ahead-for-hydrogen-trains-spzchrf8s

Just stop messing and electrify!