Identifying Suspicious Individuals

[TJM]

There was a chap with a bobble hat and a full face mask on today visibly filming individuals for considerable periods - including myself - at Waterloo station earlier today on the mezzanine for no obvious reason, even when I replied with a thorough scowl.

Ignoring the specifics of whoever this individual may be, I was more interested in the discussion of a general point as to whether that behaviour is ultimately worth reporting?

When I told the regular information desk staff about it (not BTP), they headed off and seemed to consider it a concern, although I didn't witness the outcome.

So, I really do just wonder what your threshold would be for "if you see something that doesn't look right" (given the classic BTP message), and in practice what it should be?

 

[YorksLad12]

Could be YouTubers.

We had some outside our premises a few weeks back, hooded up, videoing people as they came and went. Police called, they were spoken to and warned off. They do it to get a rise out of people, particularly 'officials'.

(Or it's Jago Hazzard. Unlikley, though.)

 

[75A]

Could be YouTubers.

We had some outside our premises a few weeks back, hooded up, videoing people as they came and went. Police called, they were spoken to and warned off. They do it to get a rise out of people, particularly 'officials'.

(Or it's Jago Hazzard. Unlikley, though.)

More likely to get a punch in the mouth in some places.

 

[matt_world2004]

Sounds like auditors they dress like they are concealing their identity and then film to provoke a reaction

 

[TJM]

Sounds like auditors they dress like they are concealing their identity and then film to provoke a reaction

Do Southwestern railway or associates actually do that?! Still owned by Firstgroup and MTR..

 

[The Lad]

'auditors'

 

[ld0595]

Could be one of those insufferable bloggers.

(Not all of them are like that - props to the few who are conscious about it!)

 

[VauxhallandI]

Well we asked for the problem when we normalised masks.

We had about 8 youths all dressed in black with hoods and masks at our station the other week.

 

[dk1]

Well we asked for the problem when we normalised masks.

We had about 8 youths all dressed in black with hoods and masks at our station the other week.

I never understand it when the weather is warm. They must stink under that lot. The things some do to fit in with the crowd.

 

[Ashley Hill]

When I told the regular information desk staff about it (not BTP), they headed off and seemed to consider it a concern, although I didn't witness the outcome

You done the right thing by telling someone. If they are up to no good then no harm done by reporting it. Filming people whilst concealing one’s identity sounds odd even if it is a YouTuber. I doubt 99.9% of those filmed would recognise them anyway.

 

[skyhigh]

Do Southwestern railway or associates actually do that?! Still owned by Firstgroup and MTR..

Nothing to do with SWR. 'Auditors' are basically numpties who go around trying to get a rise out of people.

 

[dk1]

Nothing to do with SWR. 'Auditors' are basically numpties who go around trying to get a rise out of people.

Never heard that before. Then I’d ignore anyone like that anyway.

 

[Wivenswold]

No harm in letting someone know. Could be an undercover cop or security service, though they usually dress in such bland, middle-aged way that they stick out a mile anyway.
I assume we're talking "Auditors" in a tin-hat, sov-citizen way, rather than a churchy, marginal religion way.

 

[Iskra]

I think the right thing to do is report it, and that way the professionals can make the decision whether to take any action.

Terrorists do tend to do advanced reconnaissance so reporting suspicious behaviour is encouraged from that point of view although doing it in such an obvious manner as in the OP, would be a bit daft, but then many criminals are.

However, many of things that would make someone seem ‘suspicious,’ aren’t actually illegal.

 

[DelW]

Sounds like auditors they dress like they are concealing their identity and then film to provoke a reaction

Nothing to do with SWR. 'Auditors' are basically numpties who go around trying to get a rise out of people.

This seems to be (another) word that has grown a new meaning while I wasn't paying attention. To me, auditors are accountants who go over a business's books once a year to check whether they're accurate. What is the connection with SWR?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This seems to be (another) word that has grown a new meaning while I wasn't paying attention. To me, auditors are accountants who go over a business's books once a year to check whether they're accurate. What is the connection with SWR?

The term, firmly in quotes, is used online to describe an individual who basically goes out and wilfully pushes their luck to see if people get cross with them, and to get them in trouble if they do. Obviously they then film that and post it online to gain financially from it too.

 

[skyhigh]

What is the connection with SWR?

Nothing at all apart from the location the individual has chosen. They go for public spaces. They're not employed, paid or arranged by SWR in any way.

 

[DelW]

The term, firmly in quotes, is used online to describe an individual who basically goes out and wilfully pushes their luck to see if people get cross with them, and to get them in trouble if they do. Obviously they then film that and post it online to gain financially from it too.

Nothing at all apart from the location the individual has chosen. They go for public spaces. They're not employed, paid or arranged by SWR in any way.

Thanks both, I think I'm catching up now. That's today's homework done

 

[jon0844]

YouTube allows them to monetize and get money from 'super thanks' and they also 'e-beg' to raise money to fight their supposed cause.

Sovereign Citizen videos are often flagged now, and YouTube sometimes bans the monetisation of those, but until platforms stop allowing what is often blatent harassment to make money it will just continue to grow.

In the US, people who end up in such monetised videos claim they didn't give permission for a commercial video and often get strikes against the author. Three strikes and it's game over for a channel.

Plus in the US, some auditors are now doing jail time for criminal trespass.

 

[Bald Rick]

Who actually watches them? and why?

 

[dctraindriver]

Who actually watches them? and why?

Conspiracy theorists, people who’ve been reprimanded, got into trouble with authority, police as an example, people with a grudge. Many of these auditing type channels on YouTube covering local councils, tv licensing people, parking wardens, police. The comments from many who subscribe would suggest there’s a few who have the same opinion as them.

 

[YorksLad12]

Nothing at all apart from the location the individual has chosen. They go for public spaces. They're not employed, paid or arranged by SWR in any way.

Except they're usually not in "public" spaces, but pseudo-public spaces (such as rail stations, business/office parks, etc).

 

[Greenheart]

Who actually watches them? and why?

Auditor and sovereign citizens are usually two different things, in theory auditors are checking that legislation and regulations are being properly applied, whereas a sovereign citizen challenges the authority of police officers and judges. Most auditors are just trying to get cheap content by people reacting as has been said, however a few have exposed malpractice in police officers - not knowing or misapplying legislation. Although not strictly auditing there's an example of this on YouTube by searching for "Ken Livingstone Westfield". Ken is being filmed there and is challenged by police, he puts them straight.

 

[TJM]

I don't think this guy was "auditing" - in fact he seemed a bit panicked when I walked past him on the escalator and gave him a dirty look.. Of course, anyone plotting to assist terrorism or similar might be a bit worried without weaponry on themselves? Definitely wouldn't have been a trainspotter for instance, as you don't find many of them on the mezzanine at Waterloo.. Best case scenario is it was undercover intelligence/police!

 

[Stigy]

Never heard that before. Then I’d ignore anyone like that anyway.

They usually do it in places like this, or outside police stations etc where legally they’re allowed to film. The mentality is to try and get Police etc to come and question them, only to be deliberately obstructive. “I’m not telling you why I’m filming, why should I?” (That sort of thing).

I used to love that sort of thing, because it just made me extra professional

 

[jon0844]

The annoying thing with these people, who often claim to be independent journalists or citizen journalists is that ultimately they're not helping anyone. They are making it so the official press, with ID cards that can be verified, get caught up and mistrusted.

Elon is pushing citizen journalism and I think a recent list showed that most of the top posters claiming to be reporters were responsible for sharing the most lies and faked videos/photos relating to the Israel/Gaza situation.

You can indeed refuse to show the footage you've gathered to the police without a court order but most journalists wouldn't be refusing to say why they're somewhere or being rude and threatening (the sort of threats about taking their job, you work for me etc). Most will work with the police because unless specifically trying to report on police conduct, many incidents will involve the police so you work together with mutual respect (or so it should be).

People watch them because as said above, someone has maybe had a bad experience with a parking warden and now they want revenge against everyone. Many will honestly believe that someone on a low wage getting abused while enforcing parking restrictions is part of some new world order to take away our rights. There's certainly a loose connection to sovereign citizens who want to do whatever they want with no punishment.

And you'll usually see they also believe in the 'pandemic' and other whacky conspiracy theories.

Don't forget to donate to them so they can continue to reveal the truth...

 

[dk1]

They usually do it in places like this, or outside police stations etc where legally they’re allowed to film. The mentality is to try and get Police etc to come and question them, only to be deliberately obstructive. “I’m not telling you why I’m filming, why should I?” (That sort of thing).

Oh how insanely tedious. Pity they don’t get a job or do something more worthwhile with their time.

 

[bramling]

Auditor and sovereign citizens are usually two different things, in theory auditors are checking that legislation and regulations are being properly applied, whereas a sovereign citizen challenges the authority of police officers and judges. Most auditors are just trying to get cheap content by people reacting as has been said, however a few have exposed malpractice in police officers - not knowing or misapplying legislation. Although not strictly auditing there's an example of this on YouTube by searching for "Ken Livingstone Westfield". Ken is being filmed there and is challenged by police, he puts them straight.

The Ken incident does show there is some value in the whole “auditor” thing. Indeed Ken handled his situation very well, though one does wonder how it would have gone were it a more ordinary person in his encounter.

 

[matt_world2004]

I think it got started because photographers were repeatedly getting harassed by the police/Security in the early 2000s with spurious terrorism act claims.

Then it got co opted by the conspiracists and the freemen of the land types.

Photography is so ubiquitous these days that these "auditors " often have to be more and more provocative to get police interference

 

[bramling]

I think it got started because photographers were repeatedly getting harassed by the police/Security in the early 2000s with spurious terrorism act claims.

Then it got co opted by the conspiracists and the freemen of the land types.

This is the problem when everything became “because of terrorism”, despite the politicians claiming they didn’t want the terrorism threat to change everyday life.

Like many things, it has become a convenient excuse for being awkward.