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If there were a general election in a month, whom would you vote for to most effectively get us out of this mess?

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bramling

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The Tories are toast at the next general election - either because of the shambled handling of the virus or the near catastrophic collapse of the economy. People will remember it was under the Tories than millions lost their jobs and livelihoods, tens of thousands (maybe more) died, and in the aftermath they are paying much higher taxes. I'm sure Boris knows that, and I'm sure other senior Tories know it. Its gone too far already and there is no way the Conservatives will be able to pull a rabbit out of the hat before the country next goes to the polls. However, that means we are stuck with this Tory government until May 2024 - firstly because the Tories have a big enough majority to remain under normal circumstances, and secondly because the party must know its done for at the next election and so there will be no rebellions.

I think the Conservatives *could* turn things around, but only if they had the right person in charge. Boris certain isn't that person, and no one else in their ranks appears to foot the bill either. Hancock will emerge heavily scarred, and ultimately I think Sunak will too. I bet there's some ambitions backbenchers keeping their heads down low at the moment.
 
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MikeWM

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Spoiled ballot. None of the established parties can 'get us out of this mess' as they don't seem to understand, or want to understand, any of the actual issues at stake. None of them deserve my vote based on their performance over the last few months. New party needed.
 

John Hunt

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Jacinda Ardern was an unexpected answer but she certainly seems to have what it takes. (surprised that she has a cat called Paddles with its own Twitter account, but that doesn't take anything away from what she has achieved)
 

Domh245

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It'll be interesting to see how Jacinda handles it going forward. She's done well at stopping it so far, but that is very much only the first step
 

LNW-GW Joint

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alex397

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Farage, well at the very least you know what you're getting with him which is more than can be said for a lot of politicians, even if in his case it isn't necessarily always in a positive way. I couldn't see any way Farage could lead us out of this without causing more damage than has already been done as he comes across as a strong leader, just not necessarily directing the country in the right direction

I don’t think people know what they are getting with Farage. He has been portrayed as a ‘man of the people’, but he clearly isn’t.

He acted very immaturely with his pathetic flag waving in the EU parliament. He also supposedly supports UK fishermen, but didn’t turn up to most of the EU meetings about fishing, which could have given him the opportunity to help change things. That doesn’t sound like a strong leader to me.

He has failed to become a UK MP numerous times, and I doubt he will ever become one as he is becoming less relevant.

And his rhetoric is dangerously similar to the rhetoric of a certain political party somewhere in Europe almost 90 years ago before they came to power. It amazes me how people can’t see this.
 

SteveM70

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National issues - Labour. Starmer has a forensic mind and is capable of making decisions for himself, rather than the current farce where an unelected advisor is to a large extent running the country.

Local issues - Labour without a shadow of a doubt. My MP is a Tory who - shock horror - is a massive bellend
 

alex397

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National issues - Labour. Starmer has a forensic mind and is capable of making decisions for himself, rather than the current farce where an unelected advisor is to a large extent running the country.

Local issues - Labour without a shadow of a doubt. My MP is a Tory who - shock horror - is a massive bellend

Think I agree with you there, for Labour with both national and local issues. I have high hopes for Starmer.

With local issues, we have a Labour MP, after decades of a Tory. I feel this MP has engaged much more with the local population than the previous MP. It is very refreshing.
 

Ianno87

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I think the Conservatives *could* turn things around, but only if they had the right person in charge. Boris certain isn't that person, and no one else in their ranks appears to foot the bill either. Hancock will emerge heavily scarred, and ultimately I think Sunak will too. I bet there's some ambitions backbenchers keeping their heads down low at the moment.

Presumably you need a 'fresh' name un-tarred by this crisis. I agree that Sunak might end up just that too closely associated with it, especially if he has to take some unpopular (but necessary) economic decisions.

It'll be interesting to see how Jacinda handles it going forward. She's done well at stopping it so far, but that is very much only the first step

How NZ re-opens itself to the rest of the world from this point is quite a difficult one. But I do admire her style, openness and comms. Feels like she's not trying to give non-answers in the usual political style.
 

scotrail158713

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I’d probably vote Labour, for much the same reasons as already mentioned by others. The Tories have made a right mess of this and deserve to be kicked out, and Labour are the most likely party to replace them. (Starmer also seems reasonable enough)
 

Busaholic

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A terrible thing to say in one way, I know, in view of the c60,000 deaths in this country linked to Coronavirus, but if the pandemic had come a few months earlier we might have been spared this appallingly inept government and, with that, maybe tens of thousands of deaths, particularly in care homes.A National Government would surely have been forced to replace the former minority Tory government, and the Labour MPs might have effectively removed Corbyn as leader of their party, certainly in Parliamentary terms. Starmer as, effectively, the country's leader in these circumstances, with Gauke as deputy, might have seen a similar outcome to what has been achieved in France, even though the latter concede they've made many mistakes. Johnson is as dangerous a narcissistic lunatic as that monstrosity over the pond, or would be if his domain was any bigger. Just as well (for the E.U.) that we are leaving it, because otherwise we'd be a 'world-beating' basket case member.

You might gather I shan't be voting Conservative at the next election, any more than I'd ever do, but Labour has never come near to winning in my constituency, so my vote might not count.
 

PaulMc7

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I'm in Glasgow and tbh the only outcome here going forward is probably going to be the SNP. Don't see any election going any other way considering there's not really other competitive viable options. Would hardly even include Tories and Labour as competitive options in Scotland anymore
 

bramling

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Presumably you need a 'fresh' name un-tarred by this crisis. I agree that Sunak might end up just that too closely associated with it, especially if he has to take some unpopular (but necessary) economic decisions.

It doesn't have to be 'fresh' as such, just someone who's demonstrated some degree of competence at some stage during this, or otherwise untainted. I struggle to think of anyone on the front bench who ticks those boxes. Hancock I feel as tried his best, but ultimately the outcome doesn't bear that out - although we'll never know how much freedom he had to do things his way versus being under Boris's thumb.

Sunak will become unpopular for the reasons you give IMO, plus the furlough scheme - it's interesting to observe how popularity of that has declined as people have themselves come off it and gone back to work. At my work furlough has always been regarded as a little too generous, and I get the feeling that's now a rather more mainstream viewpoint.
 

Silverlinky

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All the unknowns! We don't know how another party would have managed us through this crisis, we don't know if another leader would have been any better, its all unknown. All that we do know is what has happened, and for that the Conservatives probably won't come out of this very well just for the fact they were in charge when this happened.

For all those who say Boris this and Boris that, and then say Cummins is making all the decisions.....well who is responsible then? Ultimately the Prime Minister carries the can, but how many decisions has Boris actually made? He may front up and tell us all whats happening, but ultimately I don't think it is him steering us through this. Its him, his team of advisors, the scientists and his cabinet.

I've never voted Conservative at any election, but I was always a Labour man.....who couldn't bring myself to vote Labour in the last election due to its leader at the time.

I've always liked the way Starmer comes across, the way he speaks, but we'll see how he gets on....at the moment he's just a little too opportunistic for me.....quick to have a go but very slow in coming out with alternatives. For that reason, if there was another election in a month, in the current climate i'd probably vote independent again.......ask me again in 6/12 months and you might get a different answer!
 

Llanigraham

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I'd vote Plaid in both the Welsh and UK elections, and if there was no Plaid candidate, then Labour.
This is a Tory seat but the sooner we can get rid of the current incumbent the better.
 

43066

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I don’t think people know what they are getting with Farage. He has been portrayed as a ‘man of the people’, but he clearly isn’t.

He acted very immaturely with his pathetic flag waving in the EU parliament. He also supposedly supports UK fishermen, but didn’t turn up to most of the EU meetings about fishing, which could have given him the opportunity to help change things. That doesn’t sound like a strong leader to me.

He has failed to become a UK MP numerous times, and I doubt he will ever become one as he is becoming less relevant.

And his rhetoric is dangerously similar to the rhetoric of a certain political party somewhere in Europe almost 90 years ago before they came to power. It amazes me how people can’t see this.

With respect, this post belies a complete misunderstanding of Farage, both in terms of his aims and his views.

His raison d’etre was never really to become an elected MP. He’s always been a single issue one trick pony, who has influenced the electorate, and thereby shepherded established politicians in his favoured direction. His influence playing a large part both in David Cameron calling the EU referendum, and in the leave victory. Like him or loathe him, he’s clearly been rather effective, given that the UK has, in fact, now left the EU!

Farage is essentially a right of centre, small government, libertarian. You might not like that, but comparing him to the Nazis is utterly ludicrous. It’s the standard attempt of the left to discredit: let me guess, you consider that anyone right of centre is automatically a Nazi?

Ironically the rhetoric of a certain left wing mainstream political party has been rather closer to national socialism in one important respect of late...
 

MikeWM

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Farage is essentially a right of centre, small government, libertarian.

He seems to support masks though, which surprised me when it was pointed out to me the other day, but it does appear to be the case.
 

43066

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It doesn't have to be 'fresh' as such, just someone who's demonstrated some degree of competence at some stage during this, or otherwise untainted. I struggle to think of anyone on the front bench who ticks those boxes. Hancock I feel as tried his best, but ultimately the outcome doesn't bear that out - although we'll never know how much freedom he had to do things his way versus being under Boris's thumb.

Sunak will become unpopular for the reasons you give IMO, plus the furlough scheme - it's interesting to observe how popularity of that has declined as people have themselves come off it and gone back to work. At my work furlough has always been regarded as a little too generous, and I get the feeling that's now a rather more mainstream viewpoint.

It’s been a horror show ever since the initial week of “voluntary lockdown” was abandoned, because that’s what everyone else was doing...

If there was an election in a month: I’d probably spoil my ballot! Starmer is a night and day improvement over his predecessor but there doesn’t seem to be a great deal in the way of marquee policies etc. (not entirely his fault, because the headlines have been somewhat monopolised of late!).

I honestly don’t think I could bring myself to vote for Johnson again at this point.
 

BJames

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Some serious gains need to be made by Labour to unseat the Tories. I do think a fair few people did vote Conservative just to ensure Corbyn didn't get into power - now we have a much more competent leader this may be less of a problem. Starmer consistently delivers at PMQs and has all the qualities of a strong leader.
 

NorthOxonian

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He seems to support masks though, which surprised me when it was pointed out to me the other day, but it does appear to be the case.

Having said that, some of the other members of his party, like Richard Tice, are less enthusiastic about masks. I was surprised to notice this split in opinion, and I doubt it'll affect a party which is basically a one-man band, but you never know.
 

najaB

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...both lockdown and mandatory masks both go against the ideals of a free market, specifically that it should not be government regulation which decides this but consumer choice...
If your choices only affected you, then fine. But where your choice can kill me - sorry, but that's just not good enough.
 

43066

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If your choices only affected you, then fine. But where your choice can kill me - sorry, but that's just not good enough.

Possibly more of a topic for the masks thread, but is someone you don’t know choosing not to follow lockdown, or not to wear a mask, really likely to kill you?!

Sorry, but this is the kind of irrational hyperbole we, as a country, need to get away from...
 

najaB

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Possibly more of a topic for the masks thread, but is someone you don’t know choosing not to follow lockdown, or not to wear a mask, really likely to kill you?!

Sorry, but this is the kind of irrational hyperbole we, as a country, need to get away from...
One infected person spread the virus to 71 others:

It's not hyperbolic to say that actions affect others.
 

bramling

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With respect, this post belies a complete misunderstanding of Farage, both in terms of his aims and his views.

His raison d’etre was never really to become an elected MP. He’s always been a single issue one trick pony, who has influenced the electorate, and thereby shepherded established politicians in his favoured direction. His influence playing a large part both in David Cameron calling the EU referendum, and in the leave victory. Like him or loathe him, he’s clearly been rather effective, given that the UK has, in fact, now left the EU!

Farage is essentially a right of centre, small government, libertarian. You might not like that, but comparing him to the Nazis is utterly ludicrous. It’s the standard attempt of the left to discredit: let me guess, you consider that anyone right of centre is automatically a Nazi?

Ironically the rhetoric of a certain left wing mainstream political party has been rather closer to national socialism in one important respect of late...

Spot on in all respects.

Farage is a pressure group, any attempt at emulating a political party has been, IMO, simply a publicity attempt. Like him or loathe him, Farage has been extremely successful at carrying a significant lump of the population with him.
 

43066

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One infected person spread the virus to 71 others:


Not if the current R rate is to be believed (not that means anything). I’m also not sure how much credence I’d lend any kind of research coming out of China.

Even assuming that figure were true, so what? The *vast* majority of those who contract this virus suffer either no symptoms, or very mild symptoms.

It's not hyperbolic to say that actions affect others.

But it is hyperbolic to say “your choice can kill me”, in respect of someone you don’t know and will most likely never meet! Normal life has been suspended in this country, as a result of a virus that is only marginally more lethal than a bad flu season.

It’s normal for 50,000 people to die per day in this country. We’ve had fewer deaths than that “with” (not necessarily due to) Covid, in several months. Yet the government has reacted to this virus as if we had a new, incurable version of the bubonic plague (which killed 1/3 of the population, in just one wave, it my memory is correct).

Yet we’ve trampled over civil liberties, spent the equivalent of the national GDP in three months, sent thousands of cancer patients home to die, and are now heading for the worst recession for 300 years...

Does any of that seem rational to you?
 

LNW-GW Joint

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Spot on in all respects.

Farage is a pressure group, any attempt at emulating a political party has been, IMO, simply a publicity attempt. Like him or loathe him, Farage has been extremely successful at carrying a significant lump of the population with him.

It looks like his party's marquee policy going forward is to reverse devolution, certainly in Wales.
I think he is pushing the boulder uphill on this one.
The referendum in Wales was 50.3/49.7% in 1997, before I came to live here. My region (NE Wales) voted against, as did all of eastern Wales.
But it would be hard to put the genie back in the bottle now - it would feel like English colonialism.

If Corbyn had won the last election, the government and civil service would have been in chaos trying to reverse Tory policies when Covid-19 struck.
The NHS and care homes would not have changed and the Labour health minister would have faced just the same issues as Johnson/Hancock did.
You just have to imagine John McDonnell and Jonathan Ashworth (the Shadow Chancellor and Health Minister at the time) in those roles.
I'm not convinced they would have responded any more successfully than the current lot.
Theresa May might have made a better fist of it had she still been in power, but she might well have been overwhelmed by the day to day issues.
 
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greyman42

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I think the Conservatives *could* turn things around, but only if they had the right person in charge. Boris certain isn't that person, and no one else in their ranks appears to foot the bill either. Hancock will emerge heavily scarred, and ultimately I think Sunak will too. I bet there's some ambitions backbenchers keeping their heads down low at the moment.
I would go with Michael Gove.
 
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