Incident on 20:27 Lumo train 28th December

[Bletchleyite]

As a trainee teacher, I would likely both fail my university course and face severe disciplinary repercussions if I attempted to speak to a class in such a manner.

Really? A lot has changed in schools since I was a kid, then. And calling out bad behaviour to invoke peer pressure to pack it in has long been in my Scout Leader toolkit

The only thing I thought a bit off about it was the mention of female platform staff, I don't think calling out their gender was necessary, there are plenty of women who could handle the situation and plenty of men who couldn't. Minor though.

There are many in the rail industry who seem to think they can treat their customers like absolute filth as they’re guaranteed to just keep coming back. If I was spoken to in this manner, the matter would be escalated very quickly and I would ensure the necessary action was taken.

The only person being treated like filth here is a (former) passenger who was, assuming the situation was as described here, acting like filth and deserved to be thrown off and hopefully arrested. I don't get why people on here so like to defend people who are behaving in a manner which befits nothing less than being manhandled into a police van and spending a night in the cells to sober up (alcohol isn't mentioned, but this sort of thing almost always involves it).

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You're literally sticking up for an aggressive drunk idiot who was making the majority of customers journey a misery, the action taken was fantastic customer service for the rest of the customers on the train being abused by this idiot, they were made to feel safe by the crew by dealing with it.

I completely agree the thug should not be defended, but I personally think purposefully trying to wind him up by trying to come across as smug and superior, which that word choice does, would be counterproductive as it would likely anger him more which could cause his actions to become worse.

I don’t think we want this particular “customer” back. If only it was possible to ban people like this from the railway in the way airlines do!

I agree with you. He should be banned, yes.
I was assaulted (had a pot of liquid thrown over me by a teenage customer) in my former job, and we banned the individual and contacted police.

I did not call out to everyone in the store and try to “publicly shame” or address the other customers like I were a teacher and they were the rest of the class.

 

[CentralTrainer]

I’m not sure what makes you think in your two months on the forum you’ve become familiar with what I do and have done in my life, but sheer guesswork is distasteful and pointless.


Exactly, is isn’t. At the end of the day, the high and mighty tone is unnecessary, and if chums of said driver wish to disagree they can by all means

Hilariously condescending in the first instance - we all know you have an agenda when it comes to Lumo from being caught out by them a few months ago when you were in the wrong.

 

[O L Leigh]

No, it’s quite the opposite, I would say it was more acceptable to speak to a class of schoolchildren like a class of schoolchildren rather than a train full of paying adults.

Personally I see nothing wrong with the announcement and wouldn't have felt offended had I been a passenger on the train. It was a straightforward statement of the facts of the situation, didn't give too much detail, stopped short of calling the miscreant a "drunken idiot", "thug" or "hooligan", and didn't identify the person causing the trouble (although he probably wouldn't have needed much pointing out to those who witnessed his behaviour). It also highlighted that the traincrew were dealing with the issue and underlined that poor behaviour will not be tolerated. That you find the tone objectionable is merely a matter of your own opinion.

The problem is that, no matter what actions traincrew take, there will always be some looking to hang s*** on us for some perceived failing in the way we have discharged our duties. Frankly the way that the Lumo crew dealt with this was exemplary. The person was removed, everyone safeguarded and all involved were kept informed of what was happening. To be picking them up for one phrase in an otherwise excellent announcement is ridiculous.

 

[12LDA28C]

It’s less the defence of the thug, and more the professionalism of the announcement made to the rest of the train, how that comes across as self-righteous and treats the passengers in general like a bunch of students (I mean come on - “Learns to behave”) and is reflective of the attitude being increasingly communicated to customers.

'Learns to behave'? Seems you're making up your own dialogue from the incident now.

 

[O L Leigh]

I was assaulted (had a pot of liquid thrown over me by a teenage customer) in my former job, and we banned the individual and contacted police.

I did not call out to everyone in the store and try to “publicly shame” or address the other customers like I were a teacher and they were the rest of the class.

See, this is what I mean about context. The shoppers in your store were not detained or otherwise inconvenienced while the police were summoned, but the Lumo passengers were and so were entitled to know what was going on.

 

[LowLevel]

I completely agree the thug should not be defended, but I personally think purposefully trying to wind him up by trying to come across as smug and superior, which that word choice does, would be counterproductive as it would likely anger him more which could cause his actions to become worse.


I agree with you. He should be banned, yes.
I was assaulted (had a pot of liquid thrown over me by a teenage customer) in my former job, and we banned the individual and contacted police.

I did not call out to everyone in the store and try to “publicly shame” or address the other customers like I were a teacher and they were the rest of the class.

You read each situation by being there. It can and does work.

With respect, you were not, and are not placed to make sweeping generalisations about what is and isn't appropriate.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

See, this is what I mean about context. The shoppers in your store were not detained or otherwise inconvenienced while the police were summoned, but the Lumo passengers were and so were entitled to know what was going on.

The diners in the restaurant were inconvenienced by the added wait time for food. Assumptions again, in form of deciding it was a store.

 

[CentralTrainer]

Anyway - well dealt with by the crew concerned - sometimes on the staircase approach - you might need to go to the top levels to resolve an issue.

 

[O L Leigh]

The diners in the restaurant were inconvenienced by the added wait time for food. Assumptions again, in form of deciding it was a store.

It hasn't stopped you assuming what impact the announcement may have had on the miscreant. Should I be letting that go...?

 

[CFRAIL]

People want honest announcements and it sounds like that's exactly what happened. Yet, when it does, folk are still unhappy.

 

[ComUtoR]

As a trainee teacher, I would likely both fail my university course and face severe disciplinary repercussions if I attempted to speak to a class in such a manner.

No, it’s quite the opposite, I would say it was more acceptable to speak to a class of schoolchildren like a class of schoolchildren rather than a train full of paying adults.

Are school children not worthy of respect ? I would say it would be worse speaking to school children like that. They are highly influenced by their environment and learned behaviour becomes their norm.

 

[12LDA28C]

I did not call out to everyone in the store and try to “publicly shame” or address the other customers like I were a teacher and they were the rest of the class.

I'm sorry that you were assaulted but how exactly were 'everyone in the store' being affected by the incident? I suggest they weren't, so a rather different situation than the one we are discussing.

Everyone on the train was being delayed by one person's actions and as others have said, making others aware of the reason for the delay and who was causing it often has the result of forcing the offender to 'behave' by peer pressure from fellow passengers alone.

 

[CentralTrainer]

People want honest announcements and it sounds like that's exactly what happened. Yet, when it does, folk are still unhappy.

From looking back to the Opening Post - and the actual announcement - and not parts of it made up by someone here that wasn't actually there at the time - the reference to the “back carriage” is a good key piece of info given - meaning any other passengers wouldn't inadvertently go into that carriage and put themselves into the "arena of conflict" (as it were) as the incident was sorted.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It hasn't stopped you assuming what impact the announcement may have had on the miscreant. Should I be letting that go...?

No, because I did not state as fact that deliberately winding the miscreant up would irritate him, I suggested “it was likely to.”

And how exactly were 'everyone in the store' being affected by you being assaulted? I suggest they weren't, so a rather different situation than the one we are discussing.

Again, more assumptions. I’ve answered this above. I don’t mean store as in a shop. The store is how staff refer to the building, but it was a restaurant and wait and food times were extended while Front Of House dealt with the situation and Back Of House staff was short while the Head Chef discussed with the manager.

 

[12LDA28C]

I did not call out to everyone in the store

You literally said it was in a store. Maybe a better choice of words would prevent people making perfectly reasonable assumptions.

 

[O L Leigh]

No, because I did not state as fact that deliberately winding the miscreant up would irritate him, I suggested “it was likely to.”

... or not. You don't know either, so are assuming.

As I mentioned before, public shaming can be a remarkably effective way of moderating the behaviour of the excessively boisterous.

 

[SteveM70]

When I was in Sydney the anti-littering campaign had the tag line “Don’t be a tosser”.

Indeed

When I was out there is the mid 90s the strap line of the anti drink driving campaign was “if you drink and drive you’re a bloody idiot’

 

[GalaxyDog]

If you're attempting to distract a fighty idiot in a metal tube anything apart from swearing over the PA goes if you ask me. I've got enough experience to be an authority on the matter. Presumably avenues such as talking them down had already been unsuccessful. Taking the attitude that they require to be dealt with respectfully when the real answer is that they need flattening and dragging out of the door with extreme prejudice as quickly as possible empowers them.

Take all other approaches first by all means but if they don't work making a polite announcement whilst they wreck the place and scare people doesn't help. Demonstrating a measured amount of frustration develops empathy.

LOL. Still butthurt over Lumo staff giving you short shrift for boarding a set down only train I see.


As usual the criticize rail staff no matter what they do brigade have already jumped on board. Perhaps you all would prefer the lock themselves in the cab, call the police and let the passengers sort themselves out response instead.

I'll bet that all the passengers on board having to put up with this idiot very much appreciated the train staff making it clear they were dealing with the situation and weren't tolerant of that behaviour.

This. I'll throw in my two pence, having had to deal several times with morons and bowl-heads who've had a few to drink and think they're the hardest thing around. It's amazing how a 'voice from the Gods' can suddenly shame them into S'ingTFU and communicate the situation to the innocent passengers as opposed to corporate limpwristedness. If all diplomatic avenues have been taken first, as Lowlevel has stated and the knuckle draggers are still being a nuisance, they're fair game. Why should passengers have to put up with that aggresive crap?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You literally said it was in a store. Maybe a better choice of words would prevent people making perfectly reasonable assumptions.

It is standard terminology for restaurants, cafes, and any other business where the public pay for services, to refer to the building as the store, not just shops, but apologies for any confusion.

 

[D365]

It is standard terminology for restaurants, cafes, and any other business where the public pay for services, to refer to the building as the store, not just shops, but apologies for any confusion.

Hmm. At all of the different pubs, cafes, factories I've worked at, the 'store' only ever referred to a stockroom.

 

[CentralTrainer]

Hmm. At all of the different pubs, cafes, factories I've worked at, the 'store' only ever referred to a stockroom.

I'm off tonight after finishing a shift in my local Esso Store to eat at the Ritz - you know - that famous store on Piccadilly

 

[D365]

I was assaulted (had a pot of liquid thrown over me by a teenage customer) in my former job, and we banned the individual and contacted police.

I did not call out to everyone in the store and try to “publicly shame” or address the other customers like I were a teacher and they were the rest of the class.

As per other comments, verbal or physical assault of staff is never acceptable. However (and as @O L Leigh has written) it's far easier to mitigate an incident that takes place "on the ground", so to say. Stopping a train to wait for a police escort is far more disruptive than customers having to wait a few more minutes for their coffee while staff cover is arranged.

Are school children not worthy of respect ? I would say it would be worse speaking to school children like that. They are highly influenced by their environment and learned behaviour becomes their norm.

Agree entirely with your comments. I was talking yesterday with a teacher friend who was recently in [what sounds like] a similar situation to the Lumo train here. My friend ended up making a similar announcement to the class about the disruption being caused by this single individual - I don't think anyone would argue with that.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Hmm. At all of the different pubs, cafes, factories I've worked at, the 'store' only ever referred to a stockroom.

Fair enough. In the restaurants I’ve worked in, duties have always been referred to as “opening/closing the store”, “preparing the store,” etc. Also referred to in two parts, front of house and back of house. As a chef I come under back of house, but it’s a restaurant not a house, and the open kitchen is actually closer to the front of the store than the back. Goodness me, are we drifting off here though.

 

[12LDA28C]

Hmm. At all of the different pubs, cafes, factories I've worked at, the 'store' only ever referred to a stockroom.

Indeed. I worked for four years in the kitchen at a restaurant, and also 'front of house' at a hotel reception, and never heard the restaurant referred to as a 'store'. I guess times have changed.

 

[Bluejays]

Written, as expected, as someone who has zero experience of this type of situation.

Couldn't agree more

 

[D365]

I'm off tonight after finishing a shift in my local Esso Store to eat at the Ritz - you know - that famous store on Piccadilly

Did you make sure to book a reservation in the shop front?!

 

[CentralTrainer]

Indeed. I worked for four years in the kitchen at a restaurant, and also 'front of house' at a hotel reception, and never heard the restaurant referred to as a 'store'. I guess times have changed.

Much like how the meaning of "Set-Down Only" seems to have changed for some in the last couple of years...

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Couldn't agree more

Again, I don’t know from where you’ve decided you know my employment history?

Much like how the meaning of "Set-Down Only" seems to have changed for some in the last couple of years...

Truly inspirational maturity.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Indeed. I worked for four years in the kitchen at a restaurant, and also 'front of house' at a hotel reception, and never heard the restaurant referred to as a 'store'. I guess times have changed.

I've heard it in the context of one specific "restaurant" which classically involved a clown in its promotions. Probably also the one with the Colonel and the one which has gone all 1970s on us, plus the fancy American sandwich shop.