Is the use of cash dying out?

[DelayRepay]

Why cannot people be more tolerant of the wishes of others? Not just in the case of those people wishing to see the end of cash, but also the seeming insistance in their attempts to see the end of the landline telephone system and the move into online banking and online shopping. Have we gone into a scenario when kindness and understanding are anathema to certain people?

I don't object to people still wishing to do their banking through bank branches. What I do object to as as a customer is subsidising the very high cost of a branch network that I do not use. The 'traditional' banks have had to look for ways to cut costs in order to compete with the new digital banks that don't have the cost of an extensive branch network. The solution is a smaller branch network with shorter opening hours, provision of basic counter services through the Post Office and investment in online solutions.

It is not at all difficult for me at the age of 77 who still uses cash and refuses to indulge in online banking until the banks are 100% secure against the global criminal fraternity.

Presumably your account doesn't come with a chequebook then? Because cheques can be altered and counterfeited too.

Online banking is as close to 100% secure as it can be. The weak link in the chain is usually the account holder, being tricked by the criminals into allowing remote access to their computer, giving out passwords and authentication codes, and even sometimes just making the transaction at the request of the criminal. The difference is with online, people blame the bank (even if it was the customer's fault).

 

[johncrossley]

having gained a First in Mathematics in 1966, I can still mentally calculate the tip percentage

I've got a Maths degree as well. Mental arithmetic is not required.

That is a matter that I have no control over and it was the powers-that-be who made the decision to move to a different system.

What control do people have in the ending of the analogue phone service? It is entirely driven by the telecommunications industry. Similarly, people with a 405-line TV had to buy or rent a new TV or lose their TV service in 1985. You could argue those "selfish idiots" who preferred colour TV and two extra channels caused that demise, reducing the demand for 405-line.

 

[htafc]

My view is that if some people want to use more traditional methods of doing things, that should be respected. People should not be forced into using new technology, as good as it is.

 

[Dai Corner]

That is a matter that I have no control over and it was the powers-that-be who made the decision to move to a different system.

There are enthusiasts who restore and maintain 405 !ine TVs and have built devices to enable them to be fed from current broadcasts or tapes of 50 or 60 year old programmes. I'm sure most of their viewing is on modern colour high definition sets though.

(As an aside, and perhaps more relevant to the 'you know you're getting old' thread, but 405 lines was called 'high definition' when it first appeared).

 

[DelayRepay]

My view is that if some people want to use more traditional methods of doing things, that should be respected. People should not be forced into using new technology, as good as it is.

I agree, but where the old method costs more, those costs should be met by those who wish to continue to use it. For example those who wish to do their banking in cash in a branch should pay a service charge to reflect the higher cost of transacting in this way. Those who wish to buy their train tickets from a ticket office rather than electronically should pay a service charge to help cover the clerk's wages.

Nobody is being forced to change but those who don't want to should incur the costs of keeping the old channels open for a smaller number of customers.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The solution is a smaller branch network with shorter opening hours, provision of basic counter services through the Post Office and investment in online solutions.

Many times in bank branches, I have come across small traders who wish to pay in their cash receipts into their account. Closing down certain branches will cause problems for those independant traders.

 

[jfollows]

My view is that if some people want to use more traditional methods of doing things, that should be respected. People should not be forced into using new technology, as good as it is.

Whilst I agree, I also have no problems with making "more traditional methods" more expensive to use, perhaps not immediately but over time. So people should still not be forced into using new technology, but need to understand eventually that it'll potentially cost them more if they don't. TFl is a good example - if you want a paper ticket you probably still can get one, but it'll cost you more than either Oyster or contactless. And that's fine with me. I'm not an early adopter of many new technologies, but I usually get there before being pushed into doing so.

 

[johncrossley]

There are enthusiasts who restore and maintain 405 !ine TVs and have built devices to enable them to be fed from current broadcasts or tapes of 50 or 60 year old programmes. I'm sure most of their viewing is on modern colour high definition sets though.

(As an aside, and perhaps more relevant to the 'you know you're getting old' thread, but 405 lines was called 'high definition' when it first appeared).

I bet there were a few Baird TV owners who were outraged that the BBC decided to broadcast exclusively in 405 lines!

 

[Dai Corner]

Many times in bank branches, I have come across small traders who wish to pay in their cash receipts into their account. Closing down certain branches will cause problems for those independant traders.

If they encouraged customers to pay electronically they wouldn't have to waste time doing that.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I agree, but where the old method costs more, those costs should be met by those who wish to continue to use it. For example those who wish to do their banking in cash in a branch should pay a service charge to reflect the higher cost of transacting in this way. Those who wish to buy their train tickets from a ticket office rather than electronically should pay a service charge to help cover the clerk's wages.

How many years since the advent of railways have elapsed since booking offices were opened as a means of serving their passengers? It now seems the railway wants to run for the benefit of the companies rather than the benefit of their passengers.

I really do object to the implication referred to the addition of charges as a means of attempting to take away freedom of choice.

 

[johncrossley]

How many years since the advent of railways have elapsed since booking offices were opened as a means of serving their passengers? It now seems the railway wants to run for the benefit of the companies rather than the benefit of their passengers.

I really do object to the implication referred to the addition of charges as a means of attempting to take away freedom of choice.

As the railways were run exclusively as a business in the early days of railways, if mobile ticketing existed then they probably would not have introduced ticket offices in the first place!

 

[DelayRepay]

Many times in bank branches, I have come across small traders who wish to pay in their cash receipts into their account. Closing down certain branches will cause problems for those independant traders.

And that is why the main banks have made arrangements with the Post Office to accept deposits from their customers. At the same time technology advances mean it's now easy for even the smallest trader to accept card payments, so reducing the amount of cash to be banked.

 

[1D54]

WH Smith landside at East Midlands Airport no longer accept £10 or £20 notes, paying with fivers or any amount of coinage is fine. There has to be a reasonable explanation for this but i haven't worked it out yet.

 

[DelayRepay]

I really do object to the implication referred to the addition of charges as a means of attempting to take away freedom of choice.

Charges are not intended to take away freedom of choice. They are intended to maintain freedom of choice. Customers who wish to use more modern methods of transacting benefit from lower costs, as does the company providing the service. Those customers who choose to use the less modern methods of conducting their business can do so, but have to accept that the costs of operating those channels are higher and therefore they ought to pay more.

 

[Dai Corner]

How many years since the advent of railways have elapsed since booking offices were opened as a means of serving their passengers? It now seems the railway wants to run for the benefit of the companies rather than the benefit of their passengers.

I really do object to the implication referred to the addition of charges as a means of attempting to take away freedom of choice.

When paper (card) tickets were the only means of collecting and distributing revenue we needed ticket offices and a huge back office divvying up the receipts. The world has moved on since then.

I don't mind paying more to drink a pint or eat a meal in a pub or restaurant with the cooking, serving and clearing up done for me and a bit of banter with the staff. What's the difference between that and paying extra for a bank clerk to count out your cash and wish you good morning?

 

[johncrossley]

WH Smith landside at East Midlands Airport no longer accept £10 or £20 notes, paying with fivers or any amount of coinage is fine. There has to be a reasonable explanation for this but i haven't worked it out yet.

It is almost certainly because the chance of running out of change is higher if £10 or £20 notes were accepted.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

If they encouraged customers to pay electronically they wouldn't have to waste time doing that.

An interesting thought you raise. Put yourself in the position of being a small independant trader who has dealt in cash for those customers who have always paid in cash. Has the old adage of "The customer is always right" no longer any relevance these days? I know of a long-established village butcher who decided to ask his regular cash customers if they would do what you suggest and he did not go forward with that idea as the majority of his customers were totally against such "encouragement".

 

[Ediswan]

You should, therefore, understand the mathematics which underpins the security of online banking and related things such as chip-and-pin & contactless payment, and that you're pretty much completely secure in using both of them.

Was the branch of mathematics used to secure online banking was taught to undergraduates in 1966 ?

 

[Howardh]

While my local's pool table still only accepts £1 coins, coins will never die out!

 

[Dai Corner]

An interesting thought you raise. Put yourself in the position of being a small independant trader who has dealt in cash for those customers who have always paid in cash. Has the old adage of "The customer is always right" no longer any releance these days? I know of a long-established village butcher who decided to ask his regular cash customers if they would do what you suggest and he did not go forward with that idea as the majority of his customers were totally against such "encouragement".

That's fine, but his prices probably reflect the higher cost of staff time going to the bank and keeping the cash securel.

The cash customers also wasted their time queueing up in the bank to withdraw the cash that the butcher would take back again a few hours or days later.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Online banking is as close to 100% secure as it can be. The weak link in the chain is usually the account holder, being tricked by the criminals into allowing remote access to their computer, giving out passwords and authentication codes, and even sometimes just making the transaction at the request of the criminal. The difference is with online, people blame the bank (even if it was the customer's fault).

You will be pleased to know that any members of the global criminal fraternity have no method of getting me to indulge in discussions on passwords, etc, connected to my bank balances as I do not subscribe to online banking.

 

[Dai Corner]

You will be pleased to know that any members of the global criminal fraternity have no method of getting me to indulge in discussions on passwords, etc, connected to my bank balances as I do not subscribe to online banking.

As a clearly intelligent and well-educated man I'm sure you wouldn't fall for such tricks anyway.

 

[DelayRepay]

An interesting thought you raise. Put yourself in the position of being a small independant trader who has dealt in cash for those customers who have always paid in cash. Has the old adage of "The customer is always right" no longer any releance these days? I know of a long-established village butcher who decided to ask his regular cash customers if they would do what you suggest and he did not go forward with that idea as the majority of his customers were totally against such "encouragement".

I counter your example with a small shop in my village. They started life as a newsagents but have evolved into a sandwich shop, small cafe and also sell a few grocery items.

He used to accept only cash and over recent years he saw customers abandoning their purchase when they discovered he did not accept cards. So he got a card machine to allow his customers the choice of how to pay. He's never encouraged one method of payment over another - all he cares about is that the customer can pay! But he tells me around 75% of his business is now card based. So instead of going to the bank several times a week (which was always five miles away, even before they started closing branches), he now deposits his takings in the local Post Office a couple of times a week.

You will be pleased to know that any members of the global criminal fraternity have no method of getting me to indulge in discussions on passwords, etc, connected to my bank balances as I do not subscribe to online banking.

Indeed, but they could steal your wallet, steal your chequebook and forge your signature, or even rob you after observing you visiting the bank to withdraw cash. The point I was trying to make is that online banking is no more risky than 'offline' banking, provided the customer takes sensible precautions.

If a customer handed someone their card and told the person the PIN, then that person stole money from their account, they would probably blame themselves rather than the bank. But a customer who hands the criminal access to their online banking blames the bank. This is why online banking has a bit of a reputation of being higher risk. It isn't, though.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was the branch of mathematics used to secure online banking was taught to undergraduates in 1966 ?

If it were, those more elder of the global criminal fraternity would have taken their first steps in mathematical methodology that would circumvent any banking security methods and some years later, their offspring would have been at the forefront of the computer methodology in which they could scam in a multinational way.

Indeed, but they could steal your wallet, steal your chequebook and forge your signature, or even rob you after observing you visiting the bank to withdraw cash. The point I was trying to make is that online banking is no more risky than 'offline' banking, provided the customer takes sensible precautions.

Not over the phone they couldn't...

I cannot imagine the usual harsh voiced American woman of scam infamy or Jim from "your Microsoft company" taking the trouble to knock on my front door to obtain any financial recompense from my bank account or my wallet.

 

[jfollows]

Was the branch of mathematics used to secure online banking was taught to undergraduates in 1966 ?

No, neither were they taught to undergraduates like me in 1980-1984, but I understand them well enough following some motivated personal research since then, and with a significantly better degree than mine I see no reason why Xenophon PCDGS can't do the same.

 

[ChrisC]

What control do people have in the ending of the analogue phone service? It is entirely driven by the telecommunications industry. Similarly, people with a 405-line TV had to buy or rent a new TV or lose their TV service in 1985. You could argue those "selfish idiots" who preferred colour TV and two extra channels caused that demise, reducing the demand for 405-line.

The ending of the analogue phone service like the ending of 405-line TV is a big change which leaves people with no choice but to change. It was the same when we moved from analogue to digital tv transmission. What really does frustrate me is even when you embrace and take on new technology like smart phones, smart tv and online banking how quickly things can change and old apps become obsolete. I know that a lot of people are currently quite annoyed that they have recently lost catch up tv from ITV because the new ITVx to replace ITV hub does not work on many televisions and set top boxes which are only a few years old. I’ve lost it from my Humax Freesat box and also from my small Samsung TV in the bedroom and both of these are no more than about 5 years old. It’s amazing how many apps will no longer work on my ipad as that is an older model.

 

[ComUtoR]

Carrying cash around encourages criminal activity. Not many drug dealers take chip and pin !

 

[Phil56]

Funny thing is that "modern" technology isn't really modern at all. I'm 60 years old, so I'm an "oldie". I first started work in 1983 - using a computer on my first day, they've been pretty "mainstream" for a good few decades now. Even before then, I got a ZX80 for Christmas in 1980, and was using a Commodore PET in school around that time. Amstrad PCWs were widespread in the 80s. I got my first Access credit card in 1984! I got my first mobile phone mid 1990s, around the time I started using online banking. I've never, ever, been paid in cash, even as far back as 1983, it was paid by cheques at first, then BACS around late 80s. People have had decades to get accustomed to computers and mobile phones. If they couldn't be bothered, then they're entirely to blame for their own problems if they're struggling now. People act as if we've suddenly has massive change, but we havn't, it's taken two generations to get from where we used to be (i.e. cash in king) to where we are now (i.e. predominantly electronic banking).

Fine if people are too stubborn to change with the times, but they only have themselves to blame when they're disenfranchised. And yes, I know there are confused/disabled people etc - often doing things electronically by card is actually easier than messing about with cash - if set up properly and explained and practiced. We've done my dementia suffering mother in law - was a painful process, but it's done now and she uses her debit card for virtually everything - far better than her constantly losing her cash!

 

[AM9]

The ending of the analogue phone service like the ending of 405-line TV is a big change which leaves people with no choice but to change. It was the same when we moved from analogue to digital tv transmission. What really does frustrate me is even when you embrace and take on new technology like smart phones, smart tv and online banking how quickly things can change and old apps become obsolete. I know that a lot of people are currently quite annoyed that they have recently lost catch up tv from ITV because the new ITVx to replace ITV hub does not work on many televisions and set top boxes which are only a few years old. I’ve lost it from my Humax Freesat box and also from my small Samsung TV in the bedroom and both of these are no more than about 5 years old. It’s amazing how many apps will no longer work on my ipad as that is an older model.

Deliberately forcing application updates on iphones is a major tool in apple's 'forcing upgrades by obsolescence' strategy.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Well, with the advent of the next celebration of Bonfire Night next year, I will see how many of those bright-eyed and bushy tailed young repscallions who bring forth their life-sized human effigies out onto the street and road and make plaintive cries of "Penny for the guy" but have a card-accepting machine to hand....