Island Line half hourly timetable start date?

[Starmill]

While it'd slow down the service for regulars, I think the best bet would be to do any work necessary to get the service up to a full 2tph up the pier, then to have the timetable offset 15 minutes from the ferries. It would probably reduce usage just for going down the pier (as it'd be quicker to walk), but most such passengers probably don't pay anyway, but would mean a better quality, less stressful connection for those using it to go further, especally with luggage.

Having now used it, there are definitely ways it could be sped up. Driver door operation would be one, as would modifying the doors to operate more quickly (I don't entirely understand why, but the conversion has resulted in them being slower than they were on the D78s as built). Making all stations except Brading and the termini request stops may also be useful, you could fit bus-style stop buttons on board. I doubt you'd need to eke much out to make half hourly feasible, which is what the idea was in the first place.

Alternatively just go back to the 20-40 operation, with the 20 gap timed to be either side of the main hourly ferry arrival (i.e. train arrives around xx50, ferry at xx00, train departs around xx10). This would mean a poor connection in the other half hour, but it's rarely actually half hourly these days.

Surely only Lake could be a request stop? Trains may need to pass one another at Sandown, and Ryde Esplanade and Ryde St Johns Road are the main stations for the town? Even if they weren't, you can't have a request stop at a station where you do crew changes.

So if it's literally just Lake why not simply remove the stops at Lake? It's not particularly busy or far from the other two...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Surely only Lake could be a request stop? Trains may need to pass one another at Sandown

Not in normal operations.

Even if they weren't, you can't have a request stop at a station where you do crew changes.

Move the crew changes.

So if it's literally just Lake why not simply remove the stops at Lake? It's not particularly busy or far from the other two...

It's an option.

 

[Starmill]

Not in normal operations.



Move the crew changes.



It's an option.

How many trains do you suggest might serve Ryde Esplanade or Ryde St Johns Road by request only and then in fact not be requested?

 

[Gloster]

What about putting the Up platform out of use at Sandown and only using the Down. Secure the points out of use and remove any speed restrictions.

 

[Starmill]

What about putting the Up platform out of use at Sandown and only using the Down. Secure the points out of use and remove any speed restrictions.

What's the main cause of the speed restrictions? If it's the points themselves would it actually be alleviated by having them clamped rather than plain lined?

 

[Gloster]

What's the main cause of the speed restrictions? If it's the points themselves would it actually be alleviated by having them clamped rather than plain lined?

It is a while since I have been there, but I think they were of the pneumatic trail-through type. Even if they have been replaced by motor points, you are still going to be able to run straight in and straight out.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Perhaps I’m missing something, but from what I can see they closed the line for a year, they spent millions of pounds on new trains and infrastructure and they now run even less trains than they did before?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps I’m missing something, but from what I can see they closed the line for a year, they spent millions of pounds on new trains and infrastructure and they now run even less trains than they did before?

That seems to sum it up. In essence it was botched, badly.

 

[Southern Dvr]

So what is actually preventing a more frequent service operating? Is the infrastructure not reliable or the trains themselves? I find it impossible to believe it’s due to a shortage of staff as you would only need another 4 staff a day to run a 1/2 hourly service if you assume the shifts to be 0600-1445 & 1445-2330.

 

[Benjwri]

So what is actually preventing a more frequent service operating? Is the infrastructure not reliable or the trains themselves? I find it impossible to believe it’s due to a shortage of staff as you would only need another 4 staff a day to run a 1/2 hourly service if you assume the shifts to be 0600-1445 & 1445-2330.

If they only had the staffing before to run hourly services, and likely some staff left while it was closed, then doubling their staff number is not easy. 4 sounds like a small number but when you rememebr they need to be hired, from a fairly small pool on the Isle of White, trained, which isn’t entirely easy when not many people are qualified to drive what is an entirely new class, and then assessed.

 

[Watershed]

So what is actually preventing a more frequent service operating? Is the infrastructure not reliable or the trains themselves? I find it impossible to believe it’s due to a shortage of staff as you would only need another 4 staff a day to run a 1/2 hourly service if you assume the shifts to be 0600-1445 & 1445-2330.

You would have to have gaps in the service to account for breaks if you wanted to do it as efficiently as possible, but yes, you wouldn't need an awful lot of staff to run a half hourly service all day.

 

[Starmill]

So what is actually preventing a more frequent service operating? Is the infrastructure not reliable or the trains themselves? I find it impossible to believe it’s due to a shortage of staff as you would only need another 4 staff a day to run a 1/2 hourly service if you assume the shifts to be 0600-1445 & 1445-2330.

There's nothing preventing 2tph from operating all day, other than potentially money to pay for the crew time depending on how you look at it. However that still doesn't enable half hourly services. What's the point of spending extra money for a service that's still got 42 minute gaps?

 

[Gloster]

There's nothing preventing 2tph from operating all day, other than potentially money to pay for the crew time depending on how you look at it. However that still doesn't enable half hourly services. What's the point of spending extra money for a service that's still got 42 minute gaps?

I think the idea was that the new loop would allow a regular half-hourly service, but that doesn’t seem to work in practice. There is a half-hourly FastCat service on peak Saturdays, but the second trains each hour do not run through to the Pier Head due to insufficient turnaround times.

 

[nanstallon]

It is ironic that Dr Beeching recommended closure of all the Island's railways, except the Esplanade to Pier Head section, and that now has the worst service. Then in 1965, it was decided that the amount of rail traffic between Ryde and Shanklin justified keeping that section open. I wonder whether that is still the case.

Perhaps closure of the line from Esplanade to Shanklin, but reinstatement of the old tramway along Ryde Pier with a frequent service to ensure good connections with the ferry to Portsmouth might be the answer.

 

[Gloster]

It is ironic that Dr Beeching recommended closure of all the Island's railways, except the Esplanade to Pier Head section, and that now has the worst service. Then in 1965, it was decided that the amount of rail traffic between Ryde and Shanklin justified keeping that section open. I wonder whether that is still the case.

See #75.

 

[Andyh82]

I’m visiting the Isle of Wight next week and was planning a trip on the Island Line. Is the upshot of this thread that planning an itinerary around connecting off the ferry onto the train isn’t advisable? It’s a 9 minute connection I believe which looked ample?

 

[Gloster]

I’m visiting the Isle of Wight next week and was planning a trip on the Island Line. Is the upshot of this thread that planning an itinerary around connecting off the ferry onto the train isn’t advisable? It’s a 9 minute connection I believe which looked ample?

Things seem to have improved a bit, but I still wouldn’t advise having no buffer in case of delays. N.b. I haven’t actually used the new trains yet, but the above is based on what I see when walking down Union Street. Last time the trains were late, but so were the FastCats.

 

[Deafdoggie]

I’m visiting the Isle of Wight next week and was planning a trip on the Island Line. Is the upshot of this thread that planning an itinerary around connecting off the ferry onto the train isn’t advisable? It’s a 9 minute connection I believe which looked ample?

I wouldn't recommend connecting with the ferry, because you'll end up waiting an hour or two.
Best to book via hovercraft and use the bus.

 

[hermit]

I’m visiting the Isle of Wight next week and was planning a trip on the Island Line. Is the upshot of this thread that planning an itinerary around connecting off the ferry onto the train isn’t advisable? It’s a 9 minute connection I believe which looked ample?

Difficult to advise. The good news is that Wightlink’s rebuilding of the Portsmouth terminal, though not complete, has got to the stage where the normal ramps for boarding and landing are back in use, so loading and unloading is faster than it was when passengers were diverted over the roof and down stairs.
The bad news is that the service is pretty busy with holiday traffic, so boarding and landing can still take a long time and lead to late running, putting the connection with Island Line at risk.
For what it’s worth, I have returned to the island twice in the last two weeks, on fairly full ferries, and managed to catch the train by dint of moving smartly once we tied up. I don’t think those who were slower off the mark would all have made it.
If the worst does happen, the walk down the pier is not an unpleasant experience in the weather we’ve been having!
For your return journey, my experience remains that the train is always on time or thereabouts, and connects reliably with the ferry.

 

[Kite159]

I managed to catch the train from the 12:15 ferry yesterday, even when the boat departed 4 minutes late. A case of being near to the exit doors

Although coming back I used a Ryde Esplanade terminator and walked the pier for a more relaxing boarding experience at the Pier Head rather than the rush from train to boat due to the tight connection. And I wasn't the only passenger doing the walk to the end of the pier

Trains were quite busy, could have done with running 2 units together when it's hourly.

 

[hermit]

Glad to hear that it worked out ok!

 

[Andyh82]

The Island Line PDF timetable is contradictory in that it says “Connections on/off the ferry are not guaranteed we advise a minimum of 10 minutes” but then the train to ferry connections both in Ryde and in Portsmouth that are shown are mostly less than 10 minutes!

You are supposed to for example be able to arrive at Portsmouth Harbour at 0908, catch a ferry at 0915, arrive at 0937 and board a train at Ryde Pier Head at 0945. Breaking their rules twice!

 

[hermit]

This wording or similar has appeared on through mainland-island timetables for years. It does appear contradictory, but presumably the intention is to indicate that if it is essential to make a connection you should take an earlier train than the one shown. I have often done this when travelling down from London, given the risk of delays on SWR. But it is hardly practical on the island side, where catching the previous hourly Island Line train would mean either catching an earlier ferry than you wanted or a very long wait at Pierhead.
At least the PDF timetable does show the sub-10 minute connections we all normally rely on. Journey planners do for Pierhead, but at Portsmouth they very unhelpfully apply a 20 minute minimum connection time, with the result that many journeys to the island appear to require at least an hour’s wait at the Harbour (or, if that is quicker) a trip on the hovercraft. So the innocent traveller planning a day trip or longer to the island is misled into thinking that the island is (even) harder to get to than it really is. Hardly good for our hopes of attracting visitors.
It’s an interesting question whether delay repay claims on through tickets to the island would be determined on the basis of the PDF timetable or journey planner itineraries. I don’t know the answer.

 

[Deafdoggie]

It’s an interesting question whether delay repay claims on through tickets to the island would be determined on the basis of the PDF timetable or journey planner itineraries. I don’t know the answer.

If there is a delay on the ferry you don't get delay repay, so it's not an issue for that reason. But is yet another reason not to visit the island by rail.
If your train was late into Portsmouth causing you to miss the ferry, I guess they'd pay based on a journey planner itinerary. But if the ferry is late arriving into Ryde you don't get anything except a one or two hour wait at pier head.

 

[hermit]

If there is a delay on the ferry you don't get delay repay, so it's not an issue for that reason. But is yet another reason not to visit the island by rail.
If your train was late into Portsmouth causing you to miss the ferry, I guess they'd pay based on a journey planner itinerary. But if the ferry is late arriving into Ryde you don't get anything except a one or two hour wait at pier head.

Delays to the ferry are covered by separate compensation arrangements - 25% for more than an hour’s delay, 50% for more than two hours. More relevant to the car ferry operation, where the financial stakes are higher and such delays happen quite often.
As far as railway delay repay is concerned, this will only kick in if it is the mainland company that has caused the delay. I have in the past successfully claimed when a short delay in arriving at Portsmouth led to an hour’s delay in my arrival at my Island Line station.
I do however wonder whether delay repay would be happily paid on a through ticket if an hour’s delay caused by a late arrival into Portsmouth was then followed by another hour’s delay at Ryde caused by a late-running ferry. I have experienced this scenario, which does indeed cause you to tear your hair out, but I was not travelling on a through ticket so delay repay did not arise (or I think not).

 

[Watershed]

Delay Repay does apply on split tickets. Quite what happens when missing a ferry exacerbates a delay originally caused by the railway... it is difficult to say.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Delays to the ferry are covered by separate compensation arrangements - 25% for more than an hour’s delay, 50% for more than two hours. More relevant to the car ferry operation, where the financial stakes are higher and such delays happen quite often.
As far as railway delay repay is concerned, this will only kick in if it is the mainland company that has caused the delay. I have in the past successfully claimed when a short delay in arriving at Portsmouth led to an hour’s delay in my arrival at my Island Line station.
I do however wonder whether delay repay would be happily paid on a through ticket if an hour’s delay caused by a late arrival into Portsmouth was then followed by another hour’s delay at Ryde caused by a late-running ferry. I have experienced this scenario, which does indeed cause you to tear your hair out, but I was not travelling on a through ticket so delay repay did not arise (or I think not).

In short, no. A ferry delay on a through ticket gets zero delay repay.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Delay Repay does apply on split tickets. Quite what happens when missing a ferry exacerbates a delay originally caused by the railway... it is difficult to say.

I guess it's the same as if London Underground does. That is, it doesn't cause DR to kick in (because it's not a train - for the same reason the EU compensation also doesn't kick in) but it does allow you to take the next train of the same TOC if you miss yours.

 

[hermit]

Delay Repay does apply on split tickets. Quite what happens when missing a ferry exacerbates a delay originally caused by the railway... it is difficult to say.

Not if one of the split tickets is a ferry ticket, surely.
As for through tickets, as indicated above I have successfully claimed for a long delay to an Island Line destination caused by a shorter (even sub-DR threshold) delay on the mainland which caused me to have to wait an hour for the next ferry. But on those occasions Wightlink then ran to time and did not cause further delay in reaching the island. The grey area is what happens if they too run late and add to the overall delay.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Not if one of the split tickets is a ferry ticket, surely.
As for through tickets, as indicated above I have successfully claimed for a long delay to an Island Line destination caused by a shorter (even sub-DR threshold) delay on the mainland which caused me to have to wait an hour for the next ferry. But on those occasions Wightlink then ran to time and did not cause further delay in reaching the island. The grey area is what happens if they too run late and add to the overall delay.

There's no grey area. You don't get delay repay for a delayed ferry.