Island Line half hourly timetable start date?

[Deafdoggie]

Is it due to the temporary berthing arrangements at the Harbour? I’ve noticed a lot of boats not getting away until closer to xx:20, and even then the captains don’t seem in a rush to open them up, even when in line with the hovercraft terminal.

Sadly you can’t hold the train for the boat without jeopardising passengers heading to the mainland

The ferry was late arriving at Portsmouth and several passengers inbound missed their trains there, with no ticket acceptance in place those with advances were faced with needing to buy another.
It left Portsmouth ten mins late, but was in Ryde only 7 late, so pulled a bit back, but Wightlink don't seem too bothered and they are the weak link in this. I think connection times need to be changed so passenger expectations can be met.

 

[swt_passenger]

Is it due to the temporary berthing arrangements at the Harbour? I’ve noticed a lot of boats not getting away until closer to xx:20, and even then the captains don’t seem in a rush to open them up, even when in line with the hovercraft terminal.

The 10 knot speed limit extends well outside the harbour entrance within 1000 yards of the shore, that covers quite a large area of the possible ferry routes.

 

[pompeyfan]

The 10 knot speed limit extends well outside the harbour entrance within 1000 yards of the shore, that covers quite a large area of the possible ferry routes.

I’m aware of that, but there is an exemption for vessels entering the Swashway where they do accelerate, but I’m led to believe they ever give around 75% power.

In regards to the boat getting in late and leaving late again, I’m pretty sure the temporary berths are increasing dwell times hugely.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It left Portsmouth ten mins late, but was in Ryde only 7 late, so pulled a bit back, but Wightlink don't seem too bothered and they are the weak link in this. I think connection times need to be changed so passenger expectations can be met.

Going north, yes. It seems clear that the timetable on the Island Line is not fit for purpose, though, and must be changed even if that is to revert to the old 20-40 timetable exactly as was and mothball the Brading loop.

 

[SAPhil]

I certainly won't be using the Wightlink via Ryde route again until this is sorted. Any idea how long until the Portsmouth terminal works are completed?

 

[Gloster]

I certainly won't be using the Wightlink via Ryde route again until this is sorted. Any idea how long until the Portsmouth terminal works are completed?

It was supposed to be finished by early April, but in mid-March they said it would take at least another three months. Don’t hold your breath.

 

[hermit]

No, the only indication of timing I’m aware of is ‘several months’ from January. The works don’t currently look anywhere near completion.

The route is never going to run like clockwork, given the possible delays caused by continental ferries or warships coming in and out, or bad weather. But except at peak periods connections were pretty reliable until the terminal works started - they have certainly had a serious delaying effect.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The route is never going to run like clockwork, given the possible delays caused by continental ferries or warships coming in and out, or bad weather.

I agree. That's why a half-hourly timetable with trains at the opposite 15 minutes to ferries would provide a robust (if slightly slowed) connection (and give time for grabbing a coffee or similar, there are facilities at the port).

The present timetable is inadequately resilient and is discrediting the whole thing.

 

[hermit]

I agree. That's why a half-hourly timetable with trains at the opposite 15 minutes to ferries would provide a robust (if slightly slowed) connection (and give time for grabbing a coffee or similar, there are facilities at the port).

The present timetable is inadequately resilient and is discrediting the whole thing.

That’s a lot of my life you’re condemning me to spending in the unlovely surroundings of Ryde Pierhead!

I think a better solution (if it can be achieved - big if) is to get the half hour trains up the pier so as to limit the delay if the cat is late. The present situation is unacceptable - if travellers on the 1015 or 1315 sailings (ie those before Wightlink’s mid-morning and mid-afternoon breaks in service) miss the train at Pierhead they are faced with a 2 hour wait for the next one.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That’s a lot of my life you’re condemning me to spending in the unlovely surroundings of Ryde Pierhead!

I don't recall it being that bad, but it could be made nicer!

 

[lawried123]

I agree. That's why a half-hourly timetable with trains at the opposite 15 minutes to ferries would provide a robust (if slightly slowed) connection (and give time for grabbing a coffee or similar, there are facilities at the port).

The present timetable is inadequately resilient and is discrediting the whole thing.

I looked at the timetable for Friday the 17th of June and the ferries are running every half hour yet there are still the two hour gaps in the train service from the Pier Head. That basically means that three out of four ferries have no transport from the Pier Head.
Not much fun for people heading on holiday with a lot of luggage.

Lawrie

 

[Deafdoggie]

I looked at the timetable for Friday the 17th of June and the ferries are running every half hour yet there are still the two hour gaps in the train service from the Pier Head. That basically means that three out of four ferries have no transport from the Pier Head.
Not much fun for people heading on holiday with a lot of luggage.

Lawrie

It isn't.
In all honesty, I don't see the point of the Island Land. Buses are cheaper, more frequent and better on the island. There wasn't really anyone on the train when we did get on it (we had to walk down the pier as the ferry was late so train was gone) I don't see the point of it at all. Travel by hovercraft or to Cowes and you don't need the train over there at all. Travel to Ryde Pier Head and you'll miss it anyway.

 

[Gloster]

I looked at the timetable for Friday the 17th of June and the ferries are running every half hour yet there are still the two hour gaps in the train service from the Pier Head. That basically means that three out of four ferries have no transport from the Pier Head.
Not much fun for people heading on holiday with a lot of luggage.

Lawrie

Friday 17 June is the first day of the Isle of Wight Festival. The ferries will be heaving, but almost all of the passengers will only be going as far as Esplanade. To have them all boarding the train at Pier Head and then disembarking ninety seconds later would knock the timetable to beggary. They will be encouraged to walk along the pier.

The problem at the moment for Island Line is that its main purpose is to connect the east side of the island with the mainland via the ferries. If the ferries only run a thin service and the trains can’t be relied on to connect, people will either drive to the ferry or use the hovercraft.

 

[hermit]

Friday 17 June is the first day of the Isle of Wight Festival. The ferries will be heaving, but almost all of the passengers will only be going as far as Esplanade. To have them all boarding the train at Pier Head and then disembarking ninety seconds later would knock the timetable to beggary. They will be encouraged to walk along the pier.

The problem at the moment for Island Line is that its main purpose is to connect the east side of the island with the mainland via the ferries. If the ferries only run a thin service and the trains can’t be relied on to connect, people will either drive to the ferry or use the hovercraft.

I agree that no general conclusions can be drawn from this coming weekend, which is wholly atypical. Monday 20 June will be even busier, when all routes off the island will be swamped by homegoing festival visitors. Definitely a day to avoid travelling if you can.

As for people driving to the ferry, the problem with that, unless you have someone who can drop you off, is that parking, either at Pierhead or the Council carpark at Esplanade, is very expensive, and prohibitively so for a multi-day stay. Parking at Island Line stations is much cheaper, and indeed signs at Ryde St Johns Road point to ‘Park and Ride’. But even with that incentive to use the train, my impression is that people are finding other solutions - the usage of the Island Line carparks has never recovered from Covid, and remains very low.

 

[Gloster]

It isn't.
In all honesty, I don't see the point of the Island Land. Buses are cheaper, more frequent and better on the island. There wasn't really anyone on the train when we did get on it (we had to walk down the pier as the ferry was late so train was gone) I don't see the point of it at all. Travel by hovercraft or to Cowes and you don't need the train over there at all. Travel to Ryde Pier Head and you'll miss it anyway.

I believe that the line only avoided closure in the 1960s because it was believed that the buses could not cope with the summer holiday traffic and closure would be a catastrophic blow for the island’s tourism industry. Holiday habits have changed and no longer does the Pier Head see lengthy queues of mum, dad and 2.4 children loaded with suitcases. What has increased is travel to the mainland for work and pleasure. People doing this want reliable connections at the Pier Head, but since the refurbishment they aren’t getting them and they are drifting away: they won’t come back until they see a long-term improvement. It would also help if the FastCat service ran more frequently and from early to late, as it used to, but there we are in the hands of the free market.

In some ways an alternative would be to cut the line back to Rowborough, just north of where the Ryde-Brading road crosses the line and run a shuttle between there and the Pier Head. At Rowborough there would be a Park+Ride and bus stops for the Ryde-Shanklin buses next to the platform.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In some ways an alternative would be to cut the line back to Rowborough, just north of where the Ryde-Brading road crosses the line and run a shuttle between there and the Pier Head. At Rowborough there would be a Park+Ride and bus stops for the Ryde-Shanklin buses next to the platform.

That is a nonsense idea. Either replace it with buses entirely (perhaps with some sort of pier train shuttle on the pier itself, like the Southend railway or similar) or sort it out properly. It's quite shocking just how bad a job has been done of something relatively simple, having made something worse than it was before, give or take some more second hand Tube stock.

 

[Deafdoggie]

That is a nonsense idea. Either replace it with buses entirely (perhaps with some sort of pier train shuttle on the pier itself, like the Southend railway or similar) or sort it out properly. It's quite shocking just how bad a job has been done of something relatively simple, having made something worse than it was before, give or take some more second hand Tube stock.

That basically happens now. The bus route follows the rail route and is much more popular (but copes) it's just thar people have to walk down the pier if they get the catamaran rather than the hovercraft. I don't think many people would mind this (they do it anyway!) If the railway didn't promise a train. Maybe some kind of electric buggy shuttling up and down would be the cheapest solution. But currently I can't see a future for the line, it's deserted.

 

[HSTEd]

I thought one of the reasons modern railway projects were so expensive was that massive amounts of modelling was done to ensure a robust service?

How on earth was this botched so badly?

How much additional trackwork would be necessary to fix this by extending the loop into a dynamic one?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Are they guard-working the 230s? If the things are as slow-doored as ours, improving the speed of door operation (perhaps replacing them with electric two-leaf doors from the bus industry) and switching to driver operation (with safety critical guard remaining, you need them to take fares anyway) could well eke you out a couple of minutes on a run.

The other option would be to return to the time-honoured 20-40 service using the other loop which I believe is still there. It did work. Chuck a third unit out for 3tph in the middle of summer and school hols.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

The other option would be to return to the time-honoured 20-40 service using the other loop which I believe is still there. It did work. Chuck a third unit out for 3tph in the middle of summer and school hols.

That still wouldn’t work, the new signalling/TPWS fitting and resultant changed in approach speeds means the end to end running times have changed. That’s the whole problem with the existing timetable.

 

[Gloster]

That is a nonsense idea. Either replace it with buses entirely (perhaps with some sort of pier train shuttle on the pier itself, like the Southend railway or similar) or sort it out properly. It's quite shocking just how bad a job has been done of something relatively simple, having made something worse than it was before, give or take some more second hand Tube stock.

That basically happens now. The bus route follows the rail route and is much more popular (but copes) it's just thar people have to walk down the pier if they get the catamaran rather than the hovercraft. I don't think many people would mind this (they do it anyway!) If the railway didn't promise a train. Maybe some kind of electric buggy shuttling up and down would be the cheapest solution. But currently I can't see a future for the line, it's deserted.

I would agree that getting things in order would be the best, but I fear that the line is likely to go into terminal decline unless things are sorted out soon. One problem is that there doesn’t appear to be a single, authoritative voice who could set out what is needed. Instead, you have a number pushing their own, usually short-term, interests.

The problem with the pier is that, as I understand it, it is not suitable for buses, although I think the bread vans went down there. They are creating a Ryde Transport Interchange at the Esplanade, but it look to me as though this will not improve changing between bus and train much, if at all. Providing a connecting shuttle along the pier sounds great, but as the periods when shuttles were in the use in the past showed, unless it has considerable spare capacity (like a train), there is the risk of passengers being left behind. And, having had to do it on occasions, I can’t describe walking along the pier in gusty, cold and wet weather as a pleasure.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That still wouldn’t work, the new signalling/TPWS fitting and resultant changed in approach speeds means the end to end running times have changed. That’s the whole problem with the existing timetable.

I'm sorry...they've built a new railway (in effect) that's slower than the old one?

Wow, rank incompetence there.

I do however maintain that, from experience of using 230s, the doors are so slow that replacement and DOO-with-OBS would get you at least a couple of minutes so may be enough if we're talking the issue being such a small amount of extra time. On the Marston Vale dispatch easily takes in the order of 20-30 seconds or so, tending towards 30 if done from a passenger door rather than the back cab.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I'm sorry...they've built a new railway (in effect) that's slower than the old one?

Wow, rank incompetence there.

I do however maintain that, from experience of using 230s, the doors are so slow that replacement and DOO-with-OBS would get you at least a couple of minutes so may be enough if we're talking the issue being such a small amount of extra time. On the Marston Vale dispatch easily takes in the order of 20-30 seconds or so, tending towards 30 if done from a passenger door rather than the back cab.

Often the change in standards means a like for like replacement doesn’t quite deliver the same functionality as previously. There are a few occasions, such as here where the railway has tripped up with this.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Often the change in standards means a like for like replacement doesn’t quite deliver the same functionality as previously. There are a few occasions, such as here where the railway has tripped up with this.

Where the "trip up" has occurred, though, is that they don't seem to have realised this when specifying it.

 

[MML]

And to think, we had doubts about the gauge issues entering the tunnel

 

[duncombec]

I used the Island Line for a trip between Ryde St Johns Road and Shanklin a few weeks ago. The train was standing room only, and the "guard" (I don't know their precise designation) was having some difficulty getting down the train in his ticket selling (especially to make sure the group of school-age passengers who conveniently made sure they were in the other carriage when they got on) had paid.

The doors are still slow, but locals seemed to have got into the habit of giving them a bit of a shove on opening to speed things up a bit!

Things aren't ideal (the evening service was cancelled due to staff shortages - I got the bus back), but it didn't really look to be moths and tumbleweed territory.

 

[hermit]

That basically happens now. The bus route follows the rail route and is much more popular (but copes) it's just thar people have to walk down the pier if they get the catamaran rather than the hovercraft. I don't think many people would mind this (they do it anyway!) If the railway didn't promise a train. Maybe some kind of electric buggy shuttling up and down would be the cheapest solution. But currently I can't see a future for the line, it's deserted.

This is unduly gloomy. On all of my recent journeys the trains have been comfortably filled. Many of the passengers use the trains for local journeys rather than ferry connections - there is often a considerable exodus at Ryde Esplanade. So the line is serving a useful purpose even leaving aside the vexed question of ferry links.
I would dispute the description of the buses as ‘much more popular’. They are indeed fairly busy, though with even with 4 an hour in each direction their capacity is limited. Pensioners are particularly likely to use them as, unlike the trains, they come free. But given that they take about twice as long to get from Shanklin to Ryde Esplanade as the trains I doubt whether many residents in the Sandown/Shanklin area would regard them as an adequate substitute for the train service.

 

[bramling]

I'm sorry...they've built a new railway (in effect) that's slower than the old one?

Wow, rank incompetence there.

I do however maintain that, from experience of using 230s, the doors are so slow that replacement and DOO-with-OBS would get you at least a couple of minutes so may be enough if we're talking the issue being such a small amount of extra time. On the Marston Vale dispatch easily takes in the order of 20-30 seconds or so, tending towards 30 if done from a passenger door rather than the back cab.

As with many things, doing things to the latest safety standards means things aren’t quite as slick.

I wouldn’t say the 484 door cycle is particularly slow.

My money is more that the Brading loop simply isn’t in quite the ideal place. Politically I can’t see the 20/40 service returning given the money spend on Brading.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

DOO-with-OBS would get you at least a couple of minutes so may be enough if we're talking the issue being such a small amount of extra time. On the Marston Vale dispatch easily takes in the order of 20-30 seconds or so, tending towards 30 if done from a passenger door rather than the back cab.

I think they should do that definitely.

I wouldn’t say the 484 door cycle is particularly slow.

It really is; torturously so.

 

[Philip 34002]

As with many things, doing things to the latest safety standards means things aren’t quite as slick.

I wouldn’t say the 484 door cycle is particularly slow.

My money is more that the Brading loop simply isn’t in quite the ideal place. Politically I can’t see the 20/40 service returning given the money spend on Brading.

I assume a lot of the current problems with Wightlink/Island line connections is currently due to the rebuilding works at the ferry terminal at Portsmouth Harbour station. I don't know when these works will be completed.

Notwithstanding these remarks I have the following suggestions for improving scheduled train times on the Island: -

(i) Let the driver's release the doors at each station, even if the guard's still close the doors. This will save time as the driver must know if he has stopped at the correct location at each station. It will also ensure the guard's can spend more time checking and selling tickets instead of rushing off to release the doors at each station. I assume that this could be readily arranged as the D78 vehicles, were configured for OMO on LU.

(ii) Where practicable increase the permitted line speed above the current maximum of 45mph. This was as I understand the max permitted speed of the tube profile trains previously used. The former D78 vehicles now used on the Island line have a max speed capability of 60 mph, see unit data panel on vehicle non cab ends.

(iii) Others on this group have mentioned the slow speed of the single leaf door leaves. I think one way to improve this situation is to replace the pneumatic actuators with an electric actuator, that could be designed as a straight replacement for the existing actuators. Please note it is not reasonably practicable to replace the existing single door leaf with a bi-parting door arrangement. There are no door pockets for the door leaves on the D78 vehicles available in the main window bays above the bogies. To introduce one would require a very extensive rebuilding of the body shell, that would be very very expensive!!!!