Just an old tree- or what the hell is happening in society?

[Zamracene749]

Some kid has cut down the ancient sycamore at Hadrians wall- from the BBC website "Sycamore Gap: Boy, 16, arrested after Hadrian's Wall tree felled"
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66952980
I cannot get my head around the level of spite, selfishness and lack of moral control that leads a person to do this.
With a background of escalating wars, schoolkid stabbings, corruption, the rise of the right, food banks, environmental disaster, etc etc am I wrong to be appalled? Or am I out of step? Or is the whole world finally going nuts?

 

[Darandio]

You aren't out of step, the world has gone.

 

[brad465]

If the teenager is guilty, you need to ask their parents why they can't bring a child up properly.

On a wider point I reckon this behaviour is only exhibited/desired by <1% of the population, but that's all it takes to do some serious damage in the wrong place and wrong time.

 

[alex397]

It certainly does feel like the world is going crazy, and feels especially so in this country.

But I try to ask my self - does it feel this way because of 24/7 news and social media? If we go back to, say, the 1970s, we would not hear about things nearly as much as we do now.

Although I imagine if things like the Croydon stabbing and the cutting down of the ancient sycamore happened in the 1970s, it would still make headlines in the newspapers.

As a child of the 90s, I do wonder if it would have been better to have been born in the 70s. In my view, the world seems like it was the most interesting and most peaceful from the post-WW2 period to maybe pre-2010. Though I’m not sure those living through The Troubles, the Balkan wars or any other horrible events would agree. But generally, it feels things were generally moving in a positive direction.

 

[Killingworth]

There won't be many 16 year olds who have access to a chain saw and have the ability to use it even in rural Northumberland.

White paint has been carefully marked where the cuts should be made. That seems unusual but the cuts look very clean. The 16 year old didnt walk up there, and back, with a chain saw all on his own. A quad bike maybe?

The motive is obscure. There's more to this story.

 

[najaB]

Some kid has cut down the ancient sycamore at Hadrians wall- https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-66952980
I cannot get my head around the level of spite, selfishness and lack of moral control that leads a person to do this.
With a background of escalating wars, schoolkid stabbings, corruption, the rise of the right, food banks, environmental disaster, etc etc am I wrong to be appalled? Or am I out of step? Or is the whole world finally going nuts?

I was coming here to post exactly the same question. Between things like this and the Crooked Pub it seems that there's a general sense of lawlessness.

I'm not going to say that it's 100% the fault of the current government, but seeing people at the top of society brazenly getting away with immoral/criminal acts certainly doesn't help.

 

[Bevan Price]

I was coming here to post exactly the same question. Between things like this and the Crooked Pub it seems that there's a general sense of lawlessness.

I'm not going to say that it's 100% the fault of the current government, but seeing people at the top of society brazenly getting away with immoral/criminal acts certainly doesn't help.

There has always been a fringe of idiots who think they can get away with doing stupid things involving violence, theft or vandalism.
Suffragette jumping in front of a race horse (1910s); teddy boys (1950s); mods v. rockers (1960s/70s); stealing the football World Cup, etc.
Some are just vain attention seekers, some others are just daft, etc.

 

[dorsetdesiro]

Before it was confirmed a teenager was arrested, I did think the tree may have been cut down by some angry local fed up with Instagram crazed tourists flocking there and wanted to put a stop to the hordes.

So with the teenager, it may have been an attention seeking TikTok stunt went wrong, he may not have expected the whole tree to come down, either that or he might be an eco-activist wanting to send a message to the government?

 

[Irascible]

As a child of the 90s, I do wonder if it would have been better to have been born in the 70s.

No. Unless you enjoy the rampant paranoia of being one step from a nuclear holocaust ( the world very nearly didn't live through 1983 ), still the same regular outbreaks of domestic terrorism, the massive mess that was Britain in the the 70s, vastly more bigotry & inequality and you'd have left school into the worst recession we'd ever had.

Bonuses, there hadn't been a concerted attack on the welfare state - especially for students, although as a 70s kid you'd have missed the best parts.

 

[jon0844]

So with the teenager, it may have been an attention seeking TikTok stunt went wrong, he may not have expected the whole tree to come down, either that or he might be an eco-activist wanting to send a message to the government?

My first thought was some Internet stunt, and maybe that's why the kid was arrested so quickly - perhaps he posted a video online somewhere for likes.

It was only last week someone from TikTok who had left the company spoke of just how much the platform has caused people to do some awful things, and even if this wasn't TikTok I am sure it was all part of a culture of doing and saying horrible things for attention (see Laurence Fox this week).

 

[Busaholic]

My first thought was some Internet stunt, and maybe that's why the kid was arrested so quickly - perhaps he posted a video online somewhere for likes.

It was only last week someone from TikTok who had left the company spoke of just how much the platform has caused people to do some awful things, and even if this wasn't TikTok I am sure it was all part of a culture of doing and saying horrible things for attention (see Laurence Fox this week).

A tree killed yesterday for 'fun', a person killed tomorrow for the same warped reason? How many more Mark Chapmans will be created?

 

[jon0844]

We've come a long way since happy slapping became a thing with the advent of the camera phone.

 

[najaB]

Suffragette jumping in front of a race horse

That's hardly in the same vein though. Unless you think this was somehow a public protest against inequality?

either that or he might be an eco-activist wanting to send a message to the government

That would be like protesting against cuts to the arts by burning down a theater!

 

[alex397]

No. Unless you enjoy the rampant paranoia of being one step from a nuclear holocaust ( the world very nearly didn't live through 1983 ), still the same regular outbreaks of domestic terrorism, the massive mess that was Britain in the the 70s, vastly more bigotry & inequality and you'd have left school into the worst recession we'd ever had.

Bonuses, there hadn't been a concerted attack on the welfare state - especially for students, although as a 70s kid you'd have missed the best parts.

I’m under no illusions about the rubbish side of society during that period. But if I was born in the 70s I’d be ‘coming of age’ in the late 80s/early 90s. Who knows, I could have been even unhappier than I am now, but it seemed around that time there was some positivity about the direction the world was taking. The fall of the iron curtain for one, and social issues all seemed to be taking a positive direction. I’d also be very positive about the results of the 1997 election.

 

[dk1]

I just despair as to why? He must be one of the most detested 16yr olds in the UK right now. Hateful individual.

 

[Gloster]

As a child of the 90s, I do wonder if it would have been better to have been born in the 70s.

Possibly, but only if you were a white, middle- or upper-class, comfortably off, heterosexual male. The rest were just an annoying, awkward minority who could be insulted, ignored or arrested. Oh, and don’t give people even the slightest hint that you might be Irish.

 

[PeterC]

There won't be many 16 year olds who have access to a chain saw and have the ability to use it even in rural Northumberland.

White paint has been carefully marked where the cuts should be made. That seems unusual but the cuts look very clean. The 16 year old didnt walk up there, and back, with a chain saw all on his own. A quad bike maybe?

The motive is obscure. There's more to this story.

I agree, there is more to this than teenage vandalism.

 

[devon_belle]

Hadn't heard of the tree until yesterday, but I was still at a loss for an explanation as to why someone would cut it down. It was definitely a picturesque photo opportunity.

The cut does indeed look very clean. I would be interested to know how the police tracked it to this teenager so fast - it's not like there are cameras up there.

On the flip side, I don't agree with all the social media comments calling for various forms of brutal execution for the perpetrator. After all, it was just a tree, and no one was hurt.

Without building an access road (or airlifting it in?), is it possible to get a replacement tree up there? If they can't do that, some sort of commemorative sculpture a la the Angel of the North would be a nice way to 'replace' the tree.

 

[SargeNpton]

Without building an access road (or airlifting it in?), is it possible to get a replacement tree up there? If they can't do that, some sort of commemorative sculpture a la the Angel of the North would be a nice way to 'replace' the tree.

I doubt that there is a suitable 200-300 year old tree readily available. On TV this morning one of the national park wardens suggested that, as the stump is healthy, it may be possible to get some regrowth from it as a coppice.

 

[uglymonkey]

In the 70's you stood a chance of being vaporized by a Soviet missile in 4 minutes,24/7 365 days a year. Added to that the constant fear of an IRA attack. Never mind the strikes!

 

[AlterEgo]

If a 16 year old's done that he has a good future as a tree surgeon. A good, clean cut with white guide lines, although marks taken off for felling it across the wall.

Obviously whoever has done this is a fool but it is fascinating to see the widespread revulsion though which goes way beyond the normal parameters for criminal damage. Eventually the vandalism will come to join with the rest of the weird folk religion we seem to have about this tree; a new one will grow, more stories will form, etc.

It's big news because this sort of thing doesn't happen often. A child got murdered by being run through the neck with a huge machete by another child yesterday, and that has made a much smaller news footprint because it's not that unusual these days.

 

[devon_belle]

It's big news because this sort of thing doesn't happen often. A child got murdered by being run through the neck with a huge machete by another child yesterday, and that has made a much smaller news footprint because it's not that unusual these days.

A pretty damning indictment.

 

[SargeNpton]

If a 16 year old's done that he has a good future as a tree surgeon. A good, clean cut with white guide lines, although marks taken off for felling it across the wall.

Obviously whoever has done this is a fool but it is fascinating to see the widespread revulsion though which goes way beyond the normal parameters for criminal damage. Eventually the vandalism will come to join with the rest of the weird folk religion we seem to have about this tree; a new one will grow, more stories will form, etc.

It's big news because this sort of thing doesn't happen often. A child got murdered by being run through the neck with a huge machete by another child yesterday, and that has made a much smaller news footprint because it's not that unusual these days.

I don't know what news you read/watch, but I've seen more screen time and newsprint dedicated to the murder of the girl in South London than to the tree. Both stories are shocking in their own way for the sheer senselessness of what has happened.

 

[david1212]

.... With a background of escalating wars, schoolkid stabbings, corruption, the rise of the right, food banks, environmental disaster, etc etc am I wrong to be appalled? .... Or is the whole world finally going nuts?

No ( as in right to be appalled ) and Yes.

If the teenager is guilty, you need to ask their parents why they can't bring a child up properly ....

At times like this I think back to some of those I was at school with as parents.
Another issue is the need for both parents to work full time to bring in enough money to buy a house or even pay private sector rent, pay for the essentials i.e. food, energy, clothes, transport be that a car if not two so both can get to their employment or public and something for household fixtures appliances, at least occasional entertainment in some form and a holiday.
Hence the children are left alone far more and even when around the parents do not have the time as either doing chores and/or tired.
As discussed on other threads over the last few months back 40+ years ago far few parents worked at all while the youngest child was under 11 then only part time until the youngest was 16. Come the end of the school 5th year then the majority started full time work even if it had an apprenticeship or college day release element.

I was coming here to post exactly the same question. Between things like this and the Crooked Pub it seems that there's a general sense of lawlessness.

I'm not going to say that it's 100% the fault of the current government, but seeing people at the top of society brazenly getting away with immoral/criminal acts certainly doesn't help.

Here both at least were not a person. Yesterday we had a 15-year old murdered by a 17-year old with a 12-inch blade as the latest of this type of 'event'. Back in June there was a similar 'event' in Walthamstow.
These are just the ones that hit the national headlines. Local to me last week an 18 year old and a 16 year old have been charged with attempted murder of a 17 year old and around 6 weeks ago a man was shot and was pronounced dead at hospital soon after.
Then all the relatively less serious crimes.

 

[AlterEgo]

I don't know what news you read/watch, but I've seen more screen time and newsprint dedicated to the murder of the girl in South London than to the tree. Both stories are shocking in their own way for the sheer senselessness of what has happened.

The BBC is running a live reaction thread right now on the tree! It's the third most popular item on the app. There are six separate stories on it on one app, and five to the Croydon murder, none of which invited anyone for their live reaction of shock or revulsion.

The Croydon news cycle has stopped with the arrest of the boy responsible, but the tree one will run and run for a day or two yet. Mental country - the tree is symptomatic of a wider malaise in society but it's not just the vandalism. The reactions to it in some quarters are almost religious. People want a boy jailed for cutting down a tree!

 

[devon_belle]

The Croydon news cycle has stopped with the arrest of the boy responsible

Provokes the question: What if the tree was in Croydon and the murder in Hexham?

 

[Thirteen]

I do think people despairing about the present and being nostalgic about the past is a generational thing. Society isn't perfect but we need to stop laser focusing on the negatives.

 

[Essan]

People want a boy jailed for cutting down a tree!

I've not seen anyone make comments like that. Just that he should be hung, crucified, legs chopped off ..... Jail would probably be the safest place for him though!

As for the attention the tree is getting - it's worth noting that more people pass this tree and photograph it every year than will ever have met the girl murdered in London. It was one of the most iconic trees in the world. And I think it reflects on how many Britons do still connect very strongly with nature - especially the nature of our own little island - and in the simpler pleasures in life, and aren't all just anthropocentrics obsessed with fame and money.

 

[dakta]

To be fair I've just been looking at BBC news, there's a very current incident with a Bus that has overturned which, as a pretty much current incident is dominating it, the murder of the schoolgirl is practically second, I'm on a small monitor but I've had to scroll down for the tree - it is there, it is prominent, and there is a live feed by the looks of it, but it's below the murder.

Whilst the murder of anyone is abhorrent, the tree is undoubtedly symbolic for a plethora of reasons and is very famous, so even those who don't live near it or see it on a daily basis, are affected by it's loss. In that sense, it's a national loss. I don't think it's fair to compare with a murder, it's a different type of tragedy, and unfortunately because of it's symbolism and fame, does carry a massive amount of value by people nationwide. It's very relevent to a lot of people, you don't really want to compare its significance to a murder of someone we're not nationally connected to because it's more a case of a tragedy of a different nature.

I know my wording could be better, but I just don't see it as 'which is more important' but rather a case that even though 'its just a tree' it does carry significance because it's a nationally valued one. So it's fair it gets some prominence without demeaning other victims of other tragedies.

 

[Gloster]

I do think people despairing about the present and being nostalgic about the past is a generational thing. Society isn't perfect but we need to stop laser focusing on the negatives.

Yes, but us oldies can remember a past that was significantly different: the young can’t go that far back. I could also say that, although there was a risk of nuclear war or annihilation, that was remote to daily life. Getting knifed on the bus is rather too close to daily life.