Lifting/Demolition Train working on closed lines?

[Chrius56000]

Once lines were closed to all traffic (goods as well as passenger traffic) what method of train working was used on such lines during recovery/demolition/track lifting operations?

Were they still treated as "signalled" lines with the necessity of "absolute block" or "single line" regulations to be used or classed as being "under possession?"

Which brings me to an associated question – where closed lines were originally supervised from a power box, would the junction signal/feather/route indicator for the closed route have been abolished before or after the final closure date?

Chris Williams

 

[Gloster]

Although there were exceptions, the lines would normally be worked as sidings under the control of a member of the lifting crew. Occasionally there might be some simple rules (‘do not pass location X without the permission of the person in charge’) or when traversing level crossings. However, although they might be hiring locos and stock, it was generally slow movements under instruction. Leaving the line under demolition was more strictly controlled as you were returning to standard rules. I have read of odd occasions where signal boxes were still operated on lines that were closed, but this was either to move the points at a base for the lifting or for level crossings: block working was over and gone.

The signal leading off the line would remain in operation until after closure as you must have some signal protecting one operational line from the other operational line, which the line to be closed is until it actually closes. Sometimes signals remained functioning and lit long after the line had been closed as designing and carrying out the rewiring, together with all the paperwork, is sometimes such an enormous job.

 

[swt_passenger]

The signal leading off the line would remain in operation until after closure as you must have some signal protecting one operational line from the other operational line, which the line to be closed is until it actually closes. Sometimes signals remained functioning and lit long after the line had been closed as designing and carrying out the rewiring, together with all the paperwork, is sometimes such an enormous job.

A good example being the stub that used to go to Weymouth Quay. IIRC someone said fairly recently the signals are still operational, but Google Streetview also shows the down signal still lit 3 years ago, the up signal at the level crossing near B&Q might be lit but I couldn’t be certain…

 

[Snow1964]

A good example being the stub that used to go to Weymouth Quay. IIRC someone said fairly recently the signals are still operational, but Google Streetview also shows the down signal still lit 3 years ago, the up signal at the level crossing near B&Q might be lit but I couldn’t be certain…

I went to Weymouth about 6 months ago, and this signal was showing red (although crossing clearly hadn't been used for months/years)

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[swt_passenger]

I went to Weymouth about 6 months ago, and this signal was showing red (although crossing clearly hadn't been used for months/years)

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That’s the one. If you change the Streetview point of view there’s a small bit of red just visible in the hedge…

 

[Ken X]

Feeling very old now. Still remember the trains rolling down the roads at Weymouth. Brought back some old memories. Seem to recall cars having to be bounced out of the way at times.

 

[DerekC]

"The Meon Valley Railway - Volume 3 - Closure and Beyond" (Kevin Robertson, Noodle Books, 2013) has an interesting story which is slightly worrying! After the official last day on Saturday 5th February 1955 and the "Hampshireman" RCTS special on the following day, the line was closed completely between Farringdon and Droxford, with the stubs at either end remaining open for goods for the time being. On 12th February the daily goods from Fareham to Droxford was extended north to Tisted to collect wagons under the authority of the Droxford signalman. A few days later (and in apparent ignorance of the previous extended trip) a special was run from Alton to Privett (4 miles south of Tisted) to collect prefabricated PW huts, under the authority of the signalman at Butts Junction. The possibility of a head-on is clear! The actual track removal was done by Thomas W Ward using road vehicles.

 

[Chrius56000]

The second part of the question actually referred to the former junction/route/directing signal reading FROM the existing operational line that is remaining open TO the closed/line under recovery/demolition/lifting etc!

(I agree with what has been said about signals left on dismantled routes, such as at Weymouth Quay tho!)

Chris Williams

PS!

I'm surprised signal DR196 hasn't been recovered yet after so long a period out of use!

Did the Croxley Green Branch get new/upgraded signalling for its N.S.E. short–lived all–day reopening in 1988?

 

[snowball]

Feeling very old now. Still remember the trains rolling down the roads at Weymouth. Brought back some old memories. Seem to recall cars having to be bounced out of the way at times.

Video showing just that:

 

[Rescars]

Although there were exceptions, the lines would normally be worked as sidings under the control of a member of the lifting crew. Occasionally there might be some simple rules (‘do not pass location X without the permission of the person in charge’) or when traversing level crossings. However, although they might be hiring locos and stock, it was generally slow movements under instruction. Leaving the line under demolition was more strictly controlled as you were returning to standard rules. I have read of odd occasions where signal boxes were still operated on lines that were closed, but this was either to move the points at a base for the lifting or for level crossings: block working was over and gone.

When the Port Road west of Dumfries was being lifted, a board was positioned at Lochanhead, beyond the still functioning ICI depot at Maxwelltown which read "End of yard working. Commencement of train staff working." There was quite a lot of route to lift!

 

[Andy873]

In general terms (as far as I understand it) a train movement on a closed line would be done / classed as an engineering train. Someone with the authority would travel along with it.

This person would authorise the driver to continue past a signal on stop.
The general speed of such a train would be slow, perhaps 10 - 15 MPH (or even slower).

If the line was actually double track, one track would be chosen for lifting, the other would be used by such a train to assist in the removal of the first track and other things in general.

Entry to / from a closed line - It is possible the points allowing entry might be clipped, that is physically locked, in which case they would have to be unclipped again. Once you have left the live network onto the closed line the train then becomes technically an engineering train. The signal to allow you back onto the live network would probably have been left intact until the track has gone. As to whether it remained lit I don't know.

I'm surprised signal DR196 hasn't been recovered yet after so long a period out of use!

Chris, I was also surprised when I found out about two signals in connection with my old branch line. East Lancashire was re-signalled in 1973, signal PN386 had a route indicator for entry onto the branch line. It was replaced IIRC around 2015 with another one (again with a route indicator for the branch) - the thing is, the line was last used in 1993, and the track lifted 8 years before! There is also a second survivor (of sorts), PN385. This was on the branch line and allowed you back onto the East Lancs line. Its electronics have gone - but it still stands to this day. So yes, signals can survive for a good while.

 

[Mat17]

The former ground signals at Woolley Coal sidings were in place and lit for some years even though there was little to no track left running past them.