LNER Azuma (Class 800/801)

[samuelmorris]

Unlikely but certainly possible. I imagine the interference issues may crop up on the route through Leeds to Manchester as well.

As far as I know, the real delay is likely to be the signalling issue not the stepladder, but that certainly won't help.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

And as an afterthought, is there a possibility that the TPE Nova 1s (Class 802) will run in service first?

The main tranche of TPE 802s is not due for months yet.
They will also run on the same electric route as LNER north of York, plus Manchester Victoria-Liverpool/Manchester Airport.
The western electric routes have a mish-mash of new and not-so-new signalling so might have interference problems (though 390s operate OK on the Chat Moss route).
I think some of the kit in the Warrington control area around Newton le Willows dates from 1974, so is older than the ECML stuff.

 

[43096]

It is though! It was minor enough to get them approved for the GWML.

Are they not still running under provisional/temporary acceptance on GW? It has been suggested that DfT are being tougher now and want full acceptance for East Coast.

 

[DarloRich]

Saw one of these at Doncaster yesterday. Got to say the seats did not look very good.

 

[ainsworth74]

Are they not still running under provisional/temporary acceptance on GW?

That is my understanding of the situation on GW.

 

[gsnedders]

Are they not still running under provisional/temporary acceptance on GW? It has been suggested that DfT are being tougher now and want full acceptance for East Coast.

My understanding was they weren't allowing any further GWR sets to be approved for service either; it was simply those already in service being allowed to continue under their provisional acceptance. i.e., it isn't a GWR v. LNER split per-se, rather an "already in service" v. "not already in service" split.

 

[cactustwirly]

My understanding was they weren't allowing any further GWR sets to be approved for service either; it was simply those already in service being allowed to continue under their provisional acceptance. i.e., it isn't a GWR v. LNER split per-se, rather an "already in service" v. "not already in service" split.

But all the GWR 800s have now been accepted, including some that have been accepted since the cable issue was discovered.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

They've had the accessible toilets and the door sounders already. They're near enough PRM compliant to probably be allowed to stay on.

Ahh the door sound is FANTASTIC! That’s so weird of me I know, but the 225 make a really good bleeping sound when the doors are released. IETs just make a deafening racket, no doubt the identical Azumas will be the same

 

[samuelmorris]

Ahh the door sound is FANTASTIC! That’s so weird of me I know, but the 225 make a really good bleeping sound when the doors are released. IETs just make a deafening racket, no doubt the identical Azumas will be the same

The IET Sounders are the more pleasant ''full PRM spec" ones - those fitted to Aventras and AT200s are far more obnoxious.

 

[Whattraintoday]

Looks like an Azuma failed today at/around Doncaster
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N10083/2019/01/08/advanced
I’m stuck behind it at the moment.

 

[Emblematic]

But all the GWR 800s have now been accepted, including some that have been accepted since the cable issue was discovered.

The GWR 800s are running under Limited Acceptance. Type Acceptance will not be granted until both the cable safety issue, and the excessive EM emissions have been resolved (the latter requiring the addition of some substantial underframe components, according to reporting in Modern Railways.) These all need need to be designed, tested, manufactured and fitted. LNER, and I assume all other operators, will need to wait for full Type Acceptance before passenger service starts.

 

[59CosG95]

Looks like an Azuma failed today at/around Doncaster
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/N10083/2019/01/08/advanced
I’m stuck behind it at the moment.

That would have been 800202.

 

[Whattraintoday]

That would have been 800202.

Not quite sure what happened, there was also a failed 91 that got hauled back to Doncaster.
Quite possible for two trains to have faults of course...

 

[OmniCity999]

Anyone got a definitive answer as to when LNER are to have their 800's in service between London and Edinburgh?

I'm travelling in mid March (this year) with are large party with luggage and was told the "new trains" will be in service by then. But have been reading this thread since it started and I'm led to believe by the thread that this may not be the case?

From experience on current trains and diagrams of the new ones it looks as if theres more luggage capacity on the MK3's/4's - especially if you take into account the luggage Van's.

 

[swt_passenger]

Anyone got a definitive answer as to when LNER are to have their 800's in service between London and Edinburgh?

I'm travelling in mid March with are large party with luggage and was told the "new trains" will be in service by then. But have been reading this thread since it started and I'm led to believe by the thread that this may not be the case?

From experience on current trains and diagrams of the new ones it looks as if theres more luggage capacity on the MK3's/4's - especially if you take into account the luggage Van's.

There won’t be a definitive answer. But I expect they really mean “some” or “a few” new trains “might” be in service. I doubt they’ll even be half way introduced this time next year.

 

[OmniCity999]

There won’t be a definitive answer. But I expect they really mean “some” or “a few” new trains “might” be in service. I doubt they’ll even be half way introduced this time next year.

Cool. I cant imagine they'll be in service for this March.

 

[samuelmorris]

I doubt they will be by then either.

 

[800001]

There won’t be a definitive answer. But I expect they really mean “some” or “a few” new trains “might” be in service. I doubt they’ll even be half way introduced this time next year.

No they will not be in service between London and Edinburgh by March, highly unlikely they will be in service full stop by that date, as none have been accepted by LNER yet.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I appreciate people will think I'm mad preferring, slowly, an IET (soon to be Azumas on LNER services) over an HST but there's one train that has to have this happen.

I think of the Class 80x trains as an MOT (Modern Office Train - in other words, a high quality-built office on wheels). Its cleaner and will offer more space and comfort than the HST's (haven't been on a 225 yet).

You can download the Azuma seating plan. The Azumas I think must be the first trains not to have a Quiet Coach in the very front (Northbound) or rear coach (South and London bound) - its in around the middle of the train in Coach H for Hush (I came up with that ) which, along with some Standard Class coaches, have 88 seats.

Maybe more LNER passengers want to book the Quiet Coach - the HST's and 225's have around 65-70 seats in a Quiet Coach. The GWR 800's and 802's have around 55 seats in the Quiet Coach.

There's something about LNER that suggests they'll do well, at least from the start, with the Azumas . To be honest they know how to provide customers with a 5 or 6-star service when they can*.

I'm hoping 9-car sets will be first to enter service which will give the 5-car sets chance to not have too many teething issues!

*Correct formation 99.9% of the time, the option of choosing a direction of travel and booking particular seats from its online layout (handy if you want the coastal view side), carriage markings at either all or I guess most of the stations they stop at (at Peterborough in February last year I noticed this), and (if they can) LNER if running a train in reverse formation will go via the other way into Newcastle where they can reverse the train basically to run the train in its correct formation. Also they run 9-car trains most of the time (except the hired EMT set or if a carriage needs maintenance).

So really, LNER seem very well organised!

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Oh and after I commented (positively) on someone's HST video yesterday, I'm told that (if I've got this right) there was a rumour that VTEC were thinking of running (I assume testing) an Azuma all the way to Thurso. I hope LNER consider this ! It would free up I guess a Class 158 on that route for strengthening a Scotrail service, provide the most northern part of the UK with new more reliable InterCity trains. Only thing is it would require platform lengthening.

Question is, if LNER do run to Thurso, where would the train be kept overnight)?

 

[samuelmorris]

Most of the things you've listed I believe have been carried forward from previous operators, at least as far back as National Express, if not GNER. All LNER are currently doing until the new stock is introduced is maintaining the status quo.

I somewhat doubt the Thurso rumour, are the platforms on that route long enough to fit even a 5-car 800, let alone a 9-car?

 

[43096]

Oh and after I commented (positively) on someone's HST video yesterday, I'm told that (if I've got this right) there was a rumour that VTEC were thinking of running (I assume testing) an Azuma all the way to Thurso. I hope LNER consider this ! It would free up I guess a Class 158 on that route for strengthening a Scotrail service, provide the most northern part of the UK with new more reliable InterCity trains. Only thing is it would require platform lengthening.

Question is, if LNER do run to Thurso, where would the train be kept overnight)?

Yeah I can see a massive demand for an Inverness - Thurso at 2030 in the evening and likewise for a 0400 return to pick up the southbound Chieftain....

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

I've not even been to Scotland yet, let alone Thurso . I remember a while back suggesting that Voyagers (if all get withdrawn) basically could perhaps be converted to full table seating / scenic trains and be used on the Far North Line.

Someone said about them being too long for the platforms. Therefore as Voyagers are shorter (4 coaches at the worst), 5-car IET's would be too long.

I'll slightly correct the last post - if the 12:00 London to Inverness ever does go to Thurso in the future (never say never), it'd provide extra capacity and fill in the gap between the Inverness to Thurso-bound trains (I've looked at the timetable).

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Yeah I can see a massive demand for an Inverness - Thurso at 2030 in the evening and likewise for a 0400 return to pick up the southbound Chieftain....

Sorry. The reason I thought perhaps the 12:00 be extended is if it was retimed, it would probably disappoint and cause inconvenience to passengers from London, York, Darlington, Newcastle and Berwick-upon-Tweed who maybe travelling to between Haymarket and Inverness who rely on the one through train from south of Edinburgh.

 

[samuelmorris]

Voyagers aren't going anywhere yet and 'scenic trains' above and beyond the usual service schedule would have to be heavily subsidised or very expensive to be justified. When travelling almost the entire length of the country, making one change of train really isn't much to ask. That makes things a lot easier than organising the logistics of a TOC operating from London to extend their services over far less capable infrastructure.

Also, if you wish to add more to a post, there's an 'Edit' button at the bottom of your message after you have posted it

 

[ainsworth74]

The Thurso thing was a publicity proposal by VTEC not a suggestion that there should be a regular service provided. No-one is re-timing the Highland Chieftain to accommodate this. I would suggest that any further discussion is carried out on a thread in the Speculative Ideas section. This also applies to the suggestions regarding Voyagers. Neither of these things are suitable for discussion on this thread which is concerned about the introduction Class 800 and 801 trains on LNER.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

The Thurso thing was a publicity proposal by VTEC not a suggestion that there should be a regular service provided. No-one is re-timing the Highland Chieftain to accommodate this. I would suggest that any further discussion is carried out on a thread in the Speculative Ideas section. This also applies to the suggestions regarding Voyagers. Neither of these things are suitable for discussion on this thread which is concerned about the introduction Class 800 and 801 trains on LNER.

Understood, apologies about that ! I do tend to go off topic sometimes . I'll stick to the thread.

Referring to the Azumas now, I'm seriously looking forward to riding on these on the East Coast Mainline.

On Twitter (regarding the First Class interior picture of the Azumas), there's already negative feedback. I'm (and will be), however, delighted with the new trains I'll tell you that!

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

There's also an Azuma virtual tour just in case anyone isn't aware. On there you can look "behind" and "around" you. Click the link here - https://www.lner.co.uk/rail-travel/the-best-way-to-travel/azuma-is-coming/

 

[samuelmorris]

Have you travelled on a GWR example yet? I don't wish to be a naysayer but that's quite a bold assumption otherwise.

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Have you travelled on a GWR example yet? I don't wish to be a naysayer but that's quite a bold assumption otherwise.

Oh yes. As nice as it is to sit in soft cushion seats, I much prefer the feel of the material used for the Standard and First Class seats on the Class 80x trains.