LNER train hitting a deer (04/07)

[ricoblade]

Hi All,

The 08:12 Doncaster to Edinburgh (that I was booked on) hit a deer near Grantham this morning.

Luckily it managed to get going again but we’d all been shuttled onto a Newcastle Cross Country service “only as far as York” where the conductor kept announcing it had been cancelled!

It departed York 41 down then tried to make up time to be under 30 minutes and nearly made it but we got held outside Edinburgh and the time ticked over. DR already approved.

The main point of this was wondering how often trains hit deer, I assume not that often as it won’t be pretty!

 

[DarloRich]

The main point of this was wondering how often trains hit deer, I assume not that often as it won’t be pretty!

Trains hit wildlife of different sizes all the time.

 

[chuff chuff]

Trains hit wildlife of different sizes all the time.

Yeah plenty of deer,roe/red on the routes I've worked lying around.

 

[skyhigh]

The main point of this was wondering how often trains hit deer, I assume not that often as it won’t be pretty!

It happens pretty often, though usually they don't hit anything important on the train so there's no real delay.

 

[peteb]

I've just travelled through eastern and southern Germany mainly on smaller branch lines. These often traverse dense woods and open pastures almost entirely unfenced. Yes there were a few "road kill" deer seen by the lineside, but no cattle (and these aren't always penned in by electric fences). I guess the difference is the line speeds are lower (generally 80km/h or less) and drivers tend to use the horn a lot, especially passing livestock.

 

[800001]

Hi All,

The 08:12 Doncaster to Edinburgh (that I was booked on) hit a deer near Grantham this morning.

Luckily it managed to get going again but we’d all been shuttled onto a Newcastle Cross Country service “only as far as York” where the conductor kept announcing it had been cancelled!

It departed York 41 down then tried to make up time to be under 30 minutes and nearly made it but we got held outside Edinburgh and the time ticked over. DR already approved.

The main point of this was wondering how often trains hit deer, I assume not that often as it won’t be pretty!

Trains hit deer every day, somethings causing no damage, other times damaging vital equipment and trains is taken out of use.

The area this service struck a deer, near Corby Glen, is trialling some new equipment.

Deer cameras/sensors detect deers and omit a noise that deers do not like, this should deter the deer, they have also placed fencing in the high risk area.

Around Corby glen the number of deer being struck has decreased a fair bit.

 

[Purple Train]

Oh d...

How much of a problem do deer typically cause compared to cows/sheep etc.?

 

[NSEWonderer]

Oh d...

How much of a problem do deer typically cause compared to cows/sheep etc.?

Not as great as the great Swan

 

[peteb]

Oh d...

How much of a problem do deer typically cause compared to cows/sheep etc.?

Probably more than you'd think, but depends on type. A monkjack might be hardly bigger than a large dog but a full grown red deer (e.g. as in Scotland) would be like hitting a small cow. A friend wrote his Volvo off in the Wyre Forest when he hit a smallish deer (probably a roe)!

 

[75A]

The worst one I was involved in was at night after a EMU hit a pack of hounds in Clayton Tunnel. We took a 33 from Brighton with a couple of flat wagons and some PW guys up to Haywards Heath, ran round, then stopped in the tunnel where they picked the bits up with the juice turned off, we then went on to Top Yard.

 

[Magdalia]

Large animals on the line is a significant risk.

In the Polmont derailment in 1984, the train hit a cow and there were 13 fatalities.

Document Summary​

The report into the collision between a passenger train and a cow at Polmont in 1984.

Report on the Derailment that occurred on 30th July 1984 near Polmont in the Scottish Region British Railways :: The Railways Archive

Archive of UK railways documents

www.railwaysarchive.co.uk

 

[John Luxton]

back around 1978/9 when I had an All Lines Rover I was sitting at the front of a first generation DMU on a Barnstaple to Exeter service.

Some sheep had got on to the track most were to the side grazing on some grass.

The driver slowed then at the last minute one silly sheep jumped into the four foot and stared at the train.

Driver made an emergency stop but it went under.

Driver and guard climbed down and had a look under the train we then moved off and stopped at a lineside phone (no mobiles in those days!) and the reported the incident.

Then we carried on to Exeter only a couple of minutes delay.

I was also on the Snaefell Mountain Railway on the Isle of Man some years ago where a vet was taken up the line to deal with a sheep which had strayed on to the track and been hit by an earlier service.

Deer are much more substantial animals and have been responsible for some nasty road accidents thus I presume there was quite a bit of damage to the train?

John

 

[Spartacus]

The main point of this was wondering how often trains hit deer, I assume not that often as it won’t be pretty!

Just having a quick through the logs and I reckon there's on average three strikes a day nationally. Usually they do minimal damage and most time is lost making an inspection, but they can cause heavy delays if they catch in the wrong place, like a brake pipe. From a personal point of view strikes seem to be going up, but then so is the deer population.

I've just travelled through eastern and southern Germany mainly on smaller branch lines. These often traverse dense woods and open pastures almost entirely unfenced. Yes there were a few "road kill" deer seen by the lineside, but no cattle (and these aren't always penned in by electric fences). I guess the difference is the line speeds are lower (generally 80km/h or less) and drivers tend to use the horn a lot, especially passing livestock.

The difference there will be that the livestock will usually be recovered eventually, if only sometimes for insurance claim purposes, while wild animals will often just be left for nature to clean up.

back around 1978/9 when I had an All Lines Rover I was sitting at the front of a first generation DMU on a Barnstaple to Exeter service.

Some sheep had got on to the track most were to the side grazing on some grass.

The driver slowed then at the last minute one silly sheep jumped into the four foot and stared at the train.

Driver made an emergency stop but it went under.

Sheep really do seem the dumbest of animals at times, practically suicidal. I remember years ago, probably late 90s, one of the 2-10-0 Austerities on the NYMR carried a number of little sheep emblems on it's cabside, presumably after racking up a few kills.

 

[Stigy]

Hi All,

The 08:12 Doncaster to Edinburgh (that I was booked on) hit a deer near Grantham this morning.

Luckily it managed to get going again but we’d all been shuttled onto a Newcastle Cross Country service “only as far as York” where the conductor kept announcing it had been cancelled!

It departed York 41 down then tried to make up time to be under 30 minutes and nearly made it but we got held outside Edinburgh and the time ticked over. DR already approved.

The main point of this was wondering how often trains hit deer, I assume not that often as it won’t be pretty!

I’ve only hit a couple, neither did any damage. The last one was last week and I didn’t need to stop the train or anything. I reported it to the signaller in case of debris on in the 4 ft etc, but the train maintained air pressure etc. I had a cursory look over the front of the train at the next station.

 

[mike57]

Deer are on the increase, purely from a personal view we now see them close to village, in the fields (and therefore close to the railway) whereas 20 years it was only in thickly wooded areas that you saw them. One area where they seem particularly prevalent is the area around Howsham and Kirkham Abbey, between York and Malton. More often than not you will see deer in this section.

 

[John Luxton]

Sheep really do seem the dumbest of animals at times, practically suicidal. I remember years ago, probably late 90s, one of the 2-10-0 Austerities on the NYMR carried a number of little sheep emblems on it's cabside, presumably after racking up a few kills.

True fighter pilot style!

However, I think pheasants are probably the ultimate when it comes to animals with little road sense. Some years ago I was heading to the Ffestiniog Railway driving along the A5 near Pentrefoelas when I saw this object flying straight towards my windscreen head on. I braked sharply and ducked expecting it to come through, it deflected upwards just as the last minute. The object was a pheasant. Some years ago watching an episode of Traffic Cops one one of the police officers was sent to sort out an accident involving a biker who had gone into a ditch and broke his leg. The rider said something had flown into his helmet and after a bit of a look around the PC found a dead pheasant. One also seems to see more dead pheasants lying in the road than any other birds which suggests they are a bit crazy when it comes to traffic.

Ffestiniog and Welsh Highland trains often end up herding sheep which get onto the line. Just after lockdown I was was on a train to Beddgelert that herded a flock of sheep from near Pitt's Head a considerable distance towards Beddgelert. Fortunately a line side photographer opened a foot crossing gate near where he was standing and the sheep finally cleared the track - but I imagine the farmer probably wondered where his sheep had gone as they must have been a mile or two from where they started. An NG16 Bayer Garratt looked to be just as effective in moving sheep as a border collie.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Just having a quick through the logs and I reckon there's on average three strikes a day nationally. Usually they do minimal damage and most time is lost making an inspection, but they can cause heavy delays if they catch in the wrong place, like a brake pipe. From a personal point of view strikes seem to be going up, but then so is the deer population.

Is that specifically three deer strikes a day, or all types of livestock strikes?

 

[Evolution]

It's quite a common occurrence sadly, I've not personally hit one myself but in and around the North West I see lots in the 4ft and trackside. I've had a few close calls but always managed to avoid them last minute by blowing the horn.

You get lots over the Hope Valley on a morning and other such rural locations.

 

[Magdalia]

I think pheasants are probably the ultimate when it comes to animals with little road sense.

Definitely. I remember an instance way back in the days when Kings Lynn trains were still loco hauled from Liverpool Street. After arrival at Kings Lynn, while the second man unhooked the loco the driver was down on the ballast at the other end. He picked a pheasant off the buffer beam, inserted it into a bag and placed in what would become the rear cab on the journey back to London. I dread to think of the smell that greeted the next driver to drive that loco from the country end!

 

[Spartacus]

Is that specifically three deer strikes a day, or all types of livestock strikes?

Just deer. If you add sheep, cows, goats, dogs etc you can maybe double it, probably a bit less though.

 

[Horizon22]

Oh d...

How much of a problem do deer typically cause compared to cows/sheep etc.?

Cows are probably much worse. Much bigger and depending on the speed could potentially cause a derailment.

Swans can cause an issue because of their protected status.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Cows are probably much worse. Much bigger and depending on the speed could potentially cause a derailment.

I can vouch for that... I have been in one such derailment.

 

[The exile]

The difference there will be that the livestock will usually be recovered eventually, if only sometimes for insurance claim purposes, while wild animals will often just be left for nature to clean up.

In Germany, deer strikes should be reported to the local forester (on the roads at least, I guess the same applies - at least in theory- to trains). Same applies to boar - but you’re going to be extremely lucky if you can do a hit and run with wild boar (even if you’re a train!)

 

[Moonshot]

Hit a few myself..... including 1 at 75mph for which I had to check for train damage

 

[greyman42]

The main point of this was wondering how often trains hit deer, I assume not that often as it won’t be pretty!

The area near Grantham is known for deer strikes. I remember coming home from London to York on the 2300 and we struck one in that area. It disabled the train and we had to be rescued by a thunderbird. Ended up in taxis from Doncaster and into York around 0400.

 

[6Gman]

Cows are probably much worse. Much bigger and depending on the speed could potentially cause a derailment.

Swans can cause an issue because of their protected status.

What particular issues do swans cause?

 

[Chrysalis]

What particular issues do swans cause?

Extra paperwork is my guess.

 

[43066]

What particular issues do swans cause?

Trains being cautioned if one is spotted on or near the line.

 

[6Gman]

Trains being cautioned if one is spotted on or near the line.

Perhaps I should have expressed myself more clearly.

I was wondering why their "protected status" created issues beyond those caused by any other collisions.

 

[theageofthetra]

Most common one are birds, particularly pigeons on early shifts the day the clocks go forward. Hit loads then as they aren't expecting trains 1 hour earlier than expected! The other is badgers during mating season on the third rail as they seem to go wandering more then.