Locomotive Services Fleet (LSL) updates

[31160]

No news on the peak then?

 

[Trackman]

No news on the peak then?

Last I heard it is still receiving attention, but they are working on it, so I've been told - that was about 6 months ago.
Think it's been over 12 months since the last cancelled railtour.

 

[12LDA28C]

No news on the peak then?

Don't expect to see it appear until at least Summer 2024.

 

[31160]

Thanks both

 

[thetangoman]

57311 looking good

 

[12LDA28C]

57311 arrived at Crewe from Arlington yesterday. Won't be hauling trains for a while though.

 

[MiNi]

57311 arrived at Crewe from Arlington yesterday. Won't be hauling trains for a while though.

Will it be swinging around on the rear of tours before it hauls them ?.
Traction refresher for drivers maybe.

 

[12LDA28C]

Will it be swinging around on the rear of tours before it hauls them ?.
Traction refresher for drivers maybe.

The plan I believe is once drivers, fitters etc are trained (and it has been declared fit for service) it will be on the rear of some Saphos tours for the time being. It can't multi with LSL 47s so will be of no use on a Statesman tour for example if it's booked for a pair of 47s (i.e. not top-and-tail).

 

[Nym]

Wonder if they’ll have released the ETH jumpers or left them painted closed…

The plan I believe is once drivers, fitters etc are trained it will be on the rear of some Saphos tours for the time being. It can't multi with LSL 47s so will be of no use on a Statesman tour for example if it's booked for a pair of 47s (i.e. not top-and-tail).

It can’t multi with any Class 47…

 

[12LDA28C]

It can’t multi with any Class 47…

Clearly, but as it's an LSL loco it's unlikely to need to multi with any other operator's 47s...

 

[bleeder4]

Looks stunning. I've got some Saphos tours booked for next year so hopefully it will tag along on one of those. I didn't know that a 57 couldn't double-head with a 47. Rather ironic really, considering that a 57 is basically a refurbished 47.

 

[thetangoman]

Correct me if I'm wrong but have they not got 2 57's

 

[m79900]

Correct me if I'm wrong but have they not got 2 57's

I think they have 3, and possibly 4. There's 003, 302 and 311, and maybe 007 too.

 

[12LDA28C]

Correct me if I'm wrong but have they not got 2 57's

They also have 57003 but 57/3s cannot multi with 57/0 currently. 57302 is still at Eastleigh Arlington being worked on and the two 57/3s will be able to multi with each other when they are both eventually in traffic.

Looks stunning. I've got some Saphos tours booked for next year so hopefully it will tag along on one of those. I didn't know that a 57 couldn't double-head with a 47. Rather ironic really, considering that a 57 is basically a refurbished 47.

I understand that when 57311 enters service it may well be on the rear of Saphos tours initially (leading the train where necessary). 57s have a rather different electrical and control system I believe so not that ironic.

 

[43096]

They also have 57003 but 57/3s cannot multi with 57/0 currently. 57302 is still at Eastleigh Arlington being worked on and the two 57/3s will be able to multi with each other when they are both eventually in traffic.

I understand that when 57311 enters service it may well be on the rear of Saphos tours initially (leading the train where necessary). 57s have a rather different electrical and control system I believe so not that ironic.

It would make sense to have all four 57s capable of multi with each other. It may also make sense to through wire the 57/0s with ETS cabling so they could run a 57/0+57/3 combination and run round the train without needing to run the locos round each other as well.

 

[D365]

Rather ironic really, considering that a 57 is basically a refurbished 47.

Not at all ironic if you know the vehicles.

They also have 57003 but 57/3s cannot multi with 57/0 currently.

Has this ever been possible? I'm assuming it was not specified as part of the "Class 57 ETH" build.

 

[12LDA28C]

Has this ever been possible? I'm assuming it was not specified as part of the "Class 57 ETH" build.

Not to my knowledge but I believe a modification is being developed to allow it in the future.

 

[ac6000cw]

Rather ironic really, considering that a 57 is basically a refurbished 47.

A 57 is a rebuild, using a 47 bodyshell, bogies and (I think) traction motors but with a different (EMD) diesel engine and Brush alternator (instead of a DC generator) - so the traction control system is very likely different to its 'parent' loco. In any event 47's were not MU equipped when built - it was added later to some of the class.

A class 69 is a rebuild based on a 56, and it can't MU with its 'parent' either.

 

[JammyJames08]

With the purchase of 37401 and 37409. Alongside their 37521 & 667, are there plans to hand back 37688 to the Severn Valley?

 

[Forty29]

Brilliant to see 37409 back on the mainline and last week repainted in rail freight grey 20118. Presumed will be paired up with 20132 in the future. Looking forward to seeing what they do with 37401, hopefully will keep it sounding like it does now!

 

[12LDA28C]

With the purchase of 37401 and 37409. Alongside their 37521 & 667, are there plans to hand back 37688 to the Severn Valley?

37688 is not based at the Severn Valley, although it was there on loan a few years ago. It's owned by the D05 Preservation Group, who also hire 47828 to LSL.

 

[JammyJames08]

Thanks. Pretty sure I read somewhere that 47828 has to be returned before the 37.

 

[D365]

Looking forward to seeing what they do with 37401, hopefully will keep it sounding like it does now!

Reportedly [according to the DRS heritage vehicles thread] it's due for an engine overhaul.

 

[Nym]

Not at all ironic if you know the vehicles.


Has this ever been possible? I'm assuming it was not specified as part of the "Class 57 ETH" build.

No.
The Class 57/0 was built without the ability to Multi-Work with any other vehicle.
The 57/3 was built "technically" able to multi-work, but it's not pretty how it does it and is "operationally difficult". There have also been a significant amount of mods done over the years that are... err... Recorded in the freight way. These will have affected the ability to multi-work.

While it is *possible* to mod a 57/0 to multi with a 57/3, it very much falls into the realm of "Anything is possible" in terms of engineering, it's not something that I'd want to be spending my money on. I won't say "If I where LSL" because I'm not, and I think I've made my opinions very clear on the company previously, but I'd much rather be spending my money improving the asset reliability and usability through a nice amount of remedial work, particularly on the Phase 1 Freight locos and getting them into a better position for ETCS fitment. If you must make them work in multi, then it needs to be engineered into the vehicle properly, not simply "boshed on" as it simply will not work.

Oh and if anyone does have access to the asset data and wants to feel smart, yes there are designs for the 57/0s to multi work, no, it wouldn't work with a 57/3. That is all...

 

[Wyrleybart]

Oh and if anyone does have access to the asset data and wants to feel smart, yes there are designs for the 57/0s to multi work, no, it wouldn't work with a 57/3. That is all...

Very interesting "Nym". You clearly know your stuff.
I am under the impression that EMD series power units do not have pneumatic operation of the engine fuel racks, unlike the indigenous UK designs, which means that those cussed little white engine control air pipes are not necessary for multi control of said power units. So I would have expected the various types of design fitted with the 645 series engines to talk to each other. But that is the extent of my knowledge and clesarly not actually the case.

Thanks

 

[12LDA28C]

No.
The Class 57/0 was built without the ability to Multi-Work with any other vehicle.
The 57/3 was built "technically" able to multi-work, but it's not pretty how it does it and is "operationally difficult". There have also been a significant amount of mods done over the years that are... err... Recorded in the freight way. These will have affected the ability to multi-work.

While it is *possible* to mod a 57/0 to multi with a 57/3, it very much falls into the realm of "Anything is possible" in terms of engineering, it's not something that I'd want to be spending my money on. I won't say "If I where LSL" because I'm not, and I think I've made my opinions very clear on the company previously, but I'd much rather be spending my money improving the asset reliability and usability through a nice amount of remedial work, particularly on the Phase 1 Freight locos and getting them into a better position for ETCS fitment. If you must make them work in multi, then it needs to be engineered into the vehicle properly, not simply "boshed on" as it simply will not work.

Oh and if anyone does have access to the asset data and wants to feel smart, yes there are designs for the 57/0s to multi work, no, it wouldn't work with a 57/3. That is all...

If someone were an electrical engineer with a keen interest and a good line in problem solving, I'm sure they could engineer a successful multi-working solution relatively cheaply and easily. Maybe LSL employ just such a person...

 

[Nym]

Very interesting "Nym". You clearly know your stuff.
I am under the impression that EMD series power units do not have pneumatic operation of the engine fuel racks, unlike the indigenous UK designs, which means that those cussed little white engine control air pipes are not necessary for multi control of said power units. So I would have expected the various types of design fitted with the 645 series engines to talk to each other. But that is the extent of my knowledge and clesarly not actually the case.

Thanks

The 57 conversion did indeed do away with the pilot air and replace with an electrical throttle control which is basically identical to the EMD series. There is a proposed method for multi-working with other EMD units, some fun things to make the throttle bodies work.

If someone were an electrical engineer with a keen interest and a good line in problem solving, I'm sure they could engineer a successful multi-working solution relatively cheaply and easily. Maybe LSL employ just such a person...

They may well, but from the condition I've seen of their vehicles, I do not have any confidence in this.

 

[12LDA28C]

They may well, but from the condition I've seen of their vehicles, I do not have any confidence in this.

We shall see. Converting the DBSO rake, for example from using the lighting circuits for through train control to a bespoke hard-wired control system suggests they know their electricals.

 

[43096]

We shall see. Converting the DBSO rake, for example from using the lighting circuits for through train control to a bespoke hard-wired control system suggests they know their electricals.

Except that it was DRS that fitted blue-star to the DBSO. LSL have just through wired the rest of the set with control cables and (presumably) control air pipes. Not bespoke, and hardly the most difficult of engineering tasks.

 

[Jturner98]

I’ve booked the class 90 railtour in February. Does anyone know when the diagram will appear on Real Time Trains?