London Buses Discussion

[busesrusuk]

Not sure if anyone else has mentioned this yet but the X26 has a new livery advertising the connections to Heathrow

Its a curious decision to wrap the buses given the upcoming Superloop programme.

Given that new buses for the X26 are a way off and that the implied features of Superlopp buses (such as USB ports etc) are not a prerequisite of being a "superloop" bus (now that the Metroline VMH's on the 607 are being branded) it is questionable as to why they didn't start with the X26 as the first Superloop route - its in place, its part of the loop and serves the airport and will shortly receive a frequency uplift

It has been reported that the cost of wrapping the X26 buses was circa £70k - why they didn't just spend the money on the superloop branding instead?

Anyway a couple of pictures of the buses (there are seven) that have been wrapped:

GAL WVL339 May23

Eastern Perimeter Road, Heathrow, May 2023

www.flickr.com

GAL WVL336 May23

Heathrow Central Bus Station, May 2023

www.flickr.com

 

[PGAT]

Another thing, it doesn't even serve Sutton station! It only gets as close as the post office or the police station

 

[busesrusuk]

Not exactly far away though is it...

 

[MotCO]

Anyone know what buses will be used to enhance the X26 service to every 15 minutes - the current batch has luggage racks, so will some other buses be so adapted?

 

[Busaholic]

Current 607 vehicles (VMH) now being applied with Superloop livery, ready for 15 July renumbering

How can a bus route that runs in a dead straight line west to east be part of a Superloop, pray? Trade Descriptions Act violation?

 

[Goldfish62]

How can a bus route that runs in a dead straight line west to east be part of a Superloop, pray? Trade Descriptions Act violation?

A lot of us are asking that question!

Still, at least the livery now being applied actually looks quite good.

 

[matt_world2004]

Anyone know what buses will be used to enhance the X26 service to every 15 minutes - the current batch has luggage racks, so will some other buses be so adapted?

Buses will be transferred from route 101/304 there will be an additional engineering spare. Don't know if the new buses will have luggage racks

 

[duncanp]

Buses will be transferred from route 101/304 there will be an additional engineering spare. Don't know if the new buses will have luggage racks

I hope that the increase in frequency to the X26 isn't accompanied by cuts to frequencies on the parallel bus services that run along the route, ie. routes 407, 213, 151 and 285.

Similar cuts have been proposed following the introduction of the X34 (Walthamstow - North Finchley) whereby frequencies on the 34 (Walthamstow - Barnet) will be reduced.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm not familiar with the walthamstow Barnett flow but I spent quite a bit of time using the x26 and associated feeder roots back in 2021 and 22 and would judge that bus usage in that part of the world is sufficiently high for them to score a particularly mammoth o goal by cutting services back.

 

[Goldfish62]

I'm not familiar with the walthamstow Barnett flow but I spent quite a bit of time using the x26 and associated feeder roots back in 2021 and 22 and would judge that bus usage in that part of the world is sufficiently high for them to score a particularly mammoth o goal by cutting services back.

I agree. My experience of bus use in that part of SW London is that a number of routes could do with frequency increases.

 

[Statto]

Another thing, it doesn't even serve Sutton station! It only gets as close as the post office or the police station

X26 has never served Sutton Station, even it's predecessor 726 never served Sutton Station either, as mentioned the stop in Sutton Town Centre is not that far from the station.

 

[Snow1964]

X26 has never served Sutton Station, even it's predecessor 726 never served Sutton Station either, as mentioned the stop in Sutton Town Centre is not that far from the station.

Agreed it serves Sutton, but I am also with @PGAT that showing the BR double arrow symbol as an interchange location is wrong. They don't show New Malden station, which is also stroll, so why the inconsistency.

Route X26 is still out for tender, the TfL published schedule shows it as in tranche 873A which should have been announced in May, but is clearly late

 

[MotCO]

Route X26 is still out for tender, the TfL published schedule shows it as in tranche 873A which should have been announced in May, but is clearly late

I sense that the Superloop scheme has only recently been dreamed up, and therefore probably after the tenders were due in. When was it planned to upift the frequency to every 15 minutes? Also after the tenders were due in? So maybe a mixture of both has delayed the announcement?

 

[Busaholic]

I hope that the increase in frequency to the X26 isn't accompanied by cuts to frequencies on the parallel bus services that run along the route, ie. routes 407, 213, 151 and 285.

Similar cuts have been proposed following the introduction of the X34 (Walthamstow - North Finchley) whereby frequencies on the 34 (Walthamstow - Barnet) will be reduced.

Even TfL acknowledge that Croydon and Sutton boroughs have not seen the decreases in bus usage experienced elsewhere. and given that Sutton tram/express bus routes/whatever may be 'on hold' til next Preston Guild and beyond, it would be extremely foolish to tamper with existing routes in the area, but foolishness, regrettably, comes as par for the course these days.

I can't comment on the 34, one of those useful, under-rated routes as I remember it, with an illustrious history.

 

[London Trains]

I hope that the increase in frequency to the X26 isn't accompanied by cuts to frequencies on the parallel bus services that run along the route, ie. routes 407, 213, 151 and 285.

The 213 was only just reduced from 6bph to 5bph a few months ago (and was reduced from 7.5bph to 6bph in 2018), so I'd really hope a further frequency cut is not even considered - if anything the frequency should be restored to 6bph.

 

[Mikey C]

And isn't it TfL's "policy" to reduce "oversupply" of buses in Central London, not outer London?

 

[matt_world2004]

I think the x26 is having is contract extended from 2024 to 2025 to see the effect of the introduction of the superloop before being retendered

 

[duncanp]

The 213 was only just reduced from 6bph to 5bph a few months ago (and was reduced from 7.5bph to 6bph in 2018), so I'd really hope a further frequency cut is not even considered - if anything the frequency should be restored to 6bph.

Bear in mind that the 151 duplicates the 213 between Worcester Park and Sutton.

But I don't think there should be any further frequency reductions until the Superloop changes are fully implemented.

I am aware of how busy the Sutton - Cheam - North Cheam - Worcester Park corridor is, as I used to travel on the 213 to and from school (in the 1970s) and there are several schools on the route.

I can remember the bus drivers coming out of Sutton Garage just at school finishing time and deliberately driving past the stop nearest my school (Sutton Manor) without stopping as they didn't want us badly behaved little oiks on board.

 

[Busaholic]

I sense that the Superloop scheme has only recently been dreamed up, and therefore probably after the tenders were due in. When was it planned to upift the frequency to every 15 minutes? Also after the tenders were due in? So maybe a mixture of both has delayed the announcement?

I was hoping someone could provide the definitive answer to your first question, but iirc a frequency upgrade to every 20 minutes had been planned before suddenly it became 15 minutes after an intern dreamed up the Superloop concept after an evening of roquefort and strong brie washed down by an unassuming little Chateauneuf du Pape.

 

[dmncf]

The LOTS webpage shows TfL bus tender results on its News tab, for example recent contract awards on 3 July: http://www.lots.org.uk/

Is this information available first hand from TfL - where do TfL publish their bus tender results? I've tried the following page but I can't find the recent contract awards on 3 July: https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/13923.aspx

 

[Goldfish62]

The LOTS webpage shows TfL bus tender results on its News tab, for example recent contract awards on 3 July: http://www.lots.org.uk/

Is this information available first hand from TfL - where do TfL publish their bus tender results? I've tried the following page but I can't find the recent contract awards on 3 July: https://tfl.gov.uk/forms/13923.aspx

The award announcements are sent to the trade and enthusiast press, plus anyone else interested (eg LOTS).

 

[Acton1991]

How can a bus route that runs in a dead straight line west to east be part of a Superloop, pray? Trade Descriptions Act violation?

Exactly my thought when I saw the bus pass through Acton yesterday. A lot of the 607 route is hardly in 'outer' London, either. Very odd.

 

[Dstock7080]

TfL confirmed today:
“X34” to SL1
“X123” to SL2
“X269” to SL3
“X239” to SL4 (only introduced after Silvertown tunnel completion)
“X119” to SL5
X68 to SL6
X26 to SL7
X140 to SL9
“X183” to SL10.

 

[Mikey C]

TfL confirmed today:
“X34” to SL1
“X123” to SL2
“X269” to SL3
“X239” to SL4 (only introduced after Silvertown tunnel completion)
“X119” to SL5
X68 to SL6
X26 to SL7
X140 to SL9
“X183” to SL10.

Which is far less user friendly when those routes parallel existing routes (like the 68, 183, 140 etc) for much of the journey. X68 is far more obviously the express version of the 68 than SL6.

 

[GodAtum]

TFL route 433 seems to have 3 different buses running it: Caetano City Gold, Alexander Dennis Enviro200 and Alexander Dennis Enviro200 MMC.

Does anyone know the passenger capacity for each as I'm worried the newer Caetano City Gold has less then the older buses?

 

[Deerfold]

Which is far less user friendly when those routes parallel existing routes (like the 68, 183, 140 etc) for much of the journey. X68 is far more obviously the express version of the 68 than SL6.

Even SL8 would have been more obvious (with SL7 for the 607 alongside the 207 and 427, SL4 alongside the 34, SL6 for the X26, SL9 to run alongside the 119). It might not have been possible to do this for every route, but some seems better than none.

 

[busesrusuk]

A couple of images from the last day of the 607 with the new Superloop branded buses running on the route:

Metroline VMH2586 Jul23 copy

Shepherds Bush, Jul 2023

www.flickr.com

Metroline VMH2562 Jul23 copy

Shepherds Bush, Jul 2023

www.flickr.com

 

[PGAT]

TFL route 433 seems to have 3 different buses running it: Caetano City Gold, Alexander Dennis Enviro200 and Alexander Dennis Enviro200 MMC.

Does anyone know the passenger capacity for each as I'm worried the newer Caetano City Gold has less then the older buses?

Can’t find any capacity figures but the new Caetanos are slightly shorter (10.7m) compared to the Enviro 200s (10.8m)

 

[Goldfish62]

Can’t find any capacity figures but the new Caetanos are slightly shorter (10.7m) compared to the Enviro 200s (10.8m)

When I was there it was:
55 capacity - 10.2m
60 capacity - 10.7m

Of course, it's all notional and in the case of the Caetano it's low floor throughout so in a real life situation may very well accommodate more pax than the E200 because more standing passengers will be willing to move back.

 

[adrianjohnson]

Regarding the Superloop buses, is the branding just being applied to the outside or are TfL adding route maps etc to the inside cove panels? Also, are the next-stop announcements changing? For example, on connecting routes, would it be shown "Change here for Superloop SLxx". Would that increase passenger awareness/engagement?