London Buses Discussion

[Thirteen]

Saw an electric 39 bus today, I'm assuming it's the same model used by the 163, 164 and 265 but good to see they're being rolled out on that route.

 

[Snow1964]

On Saturday route 28 transfers from RATP with electric buses, to a 3 year diesel bus contract with Metroline.

Metroline are expected to use 12-14 year old buses spare from other routes.

Not sure why it is converting back to diesel and getting buses nearly 10 years older (perhaps opposite of superloop, sort of un-super)

 

[Goldfish62]

Not sure why it is converting back to diesel and getting buses nearly 10 years older (perhaps opposite of superloop, sort of un-super)

I know exactly why but can't really say on here. Suffice to say it's contract price. It's hopefully just a one-off.

 

[Mikey C]

On Saturday route 28 transfers from RATP with electric buses, to a 3 year diesel bus contract with Metroline.

Metroline are expected to use 12-14 year old buses spare from other routes.

Not sure why it is converting back to diesel and getting buses nearly 10 years older (perhaps opposite of superloop, sort of un-super)

As an aside it's frankly bizarre that Metroline now operate all the 28/31/328 routes, considering their history at Westbourne Park which the routes also pass by.

 

[Goldfish62]

As an aside it's frankly bizarre that Metroline now operate all the 28/31/328 routes, considering their history at Westbourne Park which the routes also pass by.

Westbourne Park now no longer operates any routes that pass by the garage.

 

[Busoccultation]

Westbourne Park now no longer operates any routes that pass by the garage.

23 still does by terminating inside the garage and serving the stops on Elkstone Road that's still round the corner from the garage.

 

[Goldfish62]

23 still does by terminating inside the garage and serving the stops on Elkstone Road that's still round the corner from the garage.

That's true if you count routes in service in the vicinity rather than actually right outside the garage.

 

[Busaholic]

Westbourne Park now no longer operates any routes that pass by the garage.

And to think that Peter Hendy made his name there leading Centrewest before he went on to ever greater things.

 

[Goldfish62]

And to think that Peter Hendy made his name there leading Centrewest before he went on to ever greater things.

You can largely thank Tower Transit for its decline. The second time an Australian company has made a complete hash of things in London. I fear for the future of GoAhead now its bus side is under Australian control.

 

[Edsmith]

On Saturday route 28 transfers from RATP with electric buses, to a 3 year diesel bus contract with Metroline.

Metroline are expected to use 12-14 year old buses spare from other routes.

Not sure why it is converting back to diesel and getting buses nearly 10 years older (perhaps opposite of superloop, sort of un-super)

The 28 was never intended for electrics but got the buses spare from the C3 when it was retendered early and frequency reductions on the 23.

 

[Busaholic]

You can largely thank Tower Transit for its decline. The second time an Australian company has made a complete hash of things in London. I fear for the future of GoAhead now its bus side is under Australian control.

At least it appears to be a bus company (Kinetic) rather than a bank or finance company, so can only hope it's third time lucky!

 

[Cesarcollie]

At least it appears to be a bus company (Kinetic) rather than a bank or finance company, so can only hope it's third time lucky!

So was Tower Transit! However, the only common thread is country of (full or part) ownership. The management is completely different so no doubt behaviours will be different!

 

[Goldfish62]

At least it appears to be a bus company (Kinetic) rather than a bank or finance company, so can only hope it's third time lucky!

Meanwhile, Tom Joyner, former MD of Cross Country who suddenly left in February, has been appointed MD of GoAhead London after the sudden departure of the incumbent a couple of weeks ago.

Source : internal staff notice.

 

[Busaholic]

Meanwhile, Tom Joyner, former MD of Cross Country who suddenly left in February, has been appointed MD of GoAhead London after the sudden departure of the incumbent a couple of weeks ago.

Source : internal staff notice.

There seems to be an epidemic of suddenness, not usually a good sign.

There seems to be an epidemic of suddenness, not usually a good sign. Perhaps it should be called Elphickeness,

 

[Kay_M]

Could be a cascade with the 119 moving to Croydon, 269s to MB? I’m very much clutching at straws though

The 119 already runs from Croydon garage

 

[Edvid]

No fewer than 10 break clauses invoked in the latest tender programme update - most of them by Stagecoach, plus Go-Ahead and Transport UK. All the big operators have now done so.

Source: https://tangytango.proboards.com/thread/13032/tendering-programme-update-13-2024 (forum members only; not available on TfL's site yet)

Tendering Programme Update

13th May 2024

The current contracts for the following routes will now terminate early:

55/N55 (QC77201): termination date 28th February 2025.

56 (QC77202): termination date 28th February 2025.

304 (QC62603): termination date 6th June 2025.

308 (QC77401): termination date 7th March 2025.

397 (QC77601): termination date 28th February 2025.

415 (QC77701): termination date 7th March 2025.

488 (QC77301): termination date 28th February 2025.

677 (QX77902): termination date 14th March 2025.

U5 (QC78001): termination date 21st March 2025.

W16 (QC77502): termination date 7th March 2025.

These routes will therefore be added to the Tendering Programme in supplementary tranches 908A, 908B, 908C, 909A, 911A and 921A.

-----[automerge on 16 May 2024]-----

By what date must new bus orders have Vision Zero-compliant vehicles only? The latest Metroline order batch (source - Tangytango post) includes 46 first-gen E400EVs.

34 x Wright GB Kite Electroliner 10.2m for routes 143 and C11 (W)

10 x Volvo BZL- MCV 9.7m for route 382 (PB) VMSS

12 x Volvo BZL- MCV 10.8m for route 206 (WJ) VMSL

46 x BYD E400EV - City 10.9m for route 206 (1 bus for WJ), 210 (W), W7 (HT) & W8 (PB) BDE

 

[Mikey C]

Wasn't expecting such a large order for the BYD E400, which seems a bit unloved now with ADL and BYD going their own way! I guess it boiled down to availability.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Can't help. Wondering if the e400 byd classic model were either already ordered but unallocated or were a contract option that has been exercised before. The production line for the classic model is disbanded

 

[MotCO]

The latest Metroline order batch (source - Tangytango post) includes 46 first-gen E400EVs.

Are they first generation E400s, or are they the mystery batch of complete BYD double deckers lurking somewhere in this country?

 

[Edvid]

Pretty sure it's the former - same fleet code (BDE) as Metroline's existing batch.

 

[MotCO]

City Am is reporting that Go-Ahead is close to signing a deal for BYD double deckers. Maybe this is where the mystery batch of buses is heading.

China's BYD nears deal to supply London's electric double decker buses

Chinese automaker BYD could be in line for a big payday if it wins the contract to supply electric double decker buses in London.

www.cityam.com

Rapidly expanding Chinese automaker BYD is close to a deal that would see it supply all-electric double decker buses in London.

Transport giant Go-Ahead Group is set to award the Shenzhen-based firm a contract to build more than 100 of the vehicles at around £400,000 each and £100,000 cheaper than its UK competitors, sources told the Sunday Times.

The decision has been given the green light by Transport for London (TfL), which is chaired by Mayor Sadiq Khan. BYD previously partnered with competitor Alexander Dennis and has produced hundreds of electric double decker buses for Go-Ahead.

The firm is one of a slew of Chinese automakers rapidly expanding on the European continent, offering electric vehicles (EVs) at cut throat prices. It is backed by Warren Buffet and earlier this year, overtook Elon Musk’s Tesla to take the top spot in global EV sales for the first time.

But the new deal could raise eyebrows given BYD has faced accusations from human rights groups that metals in its supply chains were made using Uyghur forced labour.

The United Nations in 2021 wrote to BYD stating it had “received information” the company may be involved through its supply chain “in alleged forced labour, arbitrary detention and trafficking of Uyghur [muslims] and other minority workers.”

Tom Cunnington, head of bus business development at TfL, said: “We have been assured by the manufacturer that no unethical practices have taken place and would act immediately if provided with evidence to the contrary.

“TfL is a member of the Electronics Watch Low-Emission Vehicle Programme, working to apply the worker-driven monitoring model of Electonics Watch to the electric vehicle market.

“All bus companies have individual robust ethical and sustainability policies that ensure the highest standards are met on the environment and workers’ rights.”

BYD and Go-Ahead Group did not respond to a City A.M. request for comment.

Speaking to the Sunday Times, former conservative party leader Sir Ian Duncan Smith, said: “We’ve yet again gone to China to build buses. What is the matter with our domestic production?

“These are iconic, British London buses. Why is it that we simply do not look for a contractor based, if not in the UK, then certainly in Europe.”

The main reason given is that a BYD bus costs £400,000, and an ADL400 costs £500,000.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I will personally be very interested to see what the build quality is like in comparison to the classic ADL byd offering

 

[Goldfish62]

I will personally be very interested to see what the build quality is like in comparison to the classic ADL byd offering

It can't be any worse.

I note Ian Duncan Smith's comment that operators should buy from UK or if that's not possible, Europe. That's after years of saying we don't need Europe and that the UK should focus on Asia-Pacific instead.

 

[WAB]

The erstwhile MD of CrossCountry Tom Joyner is now MD at Go Ahead London.

 

[Goldfish62]

The erstwhile MD of CrossCountry Tom Joyner is now MD at Go Ahead London.

Yes, the MD and FD, both directors of longstanding at GoAhead London, were summarily given their marching orders three weeks ago. Looks like Kinetic is starting to flex its muscles.

 

[renegademaster]

At least one of the buses on the 157 is a 23 plate BYD-ADL E400 today. I'm not sure if this is a thing getting phased in or just cover for a failed bus.

 

[PGAT]

At least one of the buses on the 157 is a 23 plate BYD-ADL E400 today. I'm not sure if this is a thing getting phased in or just cover for a failed bus.

The 157 and the 57 are sharing from the same pool of older buses as Ee243-262 aren’t ready for service yet

 

[MasterSpenny]

Looks like the second batch of Volvo BZLs for Stagecoach London have begun to be manufactured. This batch is of the double decker version, and the bus that has been manufactured is 86185, and is in Eastleigh currently according to this Facebook post. I will provide registration details when I find out what they should be registered as.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/psvcircle/permalink/8197019913649480/

Brand new Stagecoach xx24 xxx 86185 is seen in Eastleigh today. If anyone has more info I would be grateful, thanks in advance. 26/05/2024

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Is anybody able to shed some light on the following situation please?

In a couple of days time, I shall be travelling on route 463 from this stop, outside Woodmansterne station.

However, looking at Streetview, it appears there aren't any bus stops at this location. Can anybody confirm whether this is a hail-and-ride section, as I can't find much information about it online.

Many thanks.

 

[Snow1964]

Is anybody able to shed some light on the following situation please?

In a couple of days time, I shall be travelling on route 463 from this stop, outside Woodmansterne station.

However, looking at Streetview, it appears there aren't any bus stops at this location. Can anybody confirm whether this is a hail-and-ride section, as I can't find much information about it online.

Many thanks.

The 463 has hail and ride sections from near Woodmansterne station to The Mount, and Grove Lane to Woodmansterne Road. The service is about every 20 minutes